Game 2 Draft - Best Pick

[jleves]

By best pick, I mean best value based on people taken before them and how much value they add, so pretty much 1st and 2nd round games probably don't rise to definition, but if you want to make an argument for one, have at it.

I don't have a clearcut one here - I guess Denham jumps out at me in the 6th round. This could be a fun debate.

 

[intlzncster]

Travis Knight in the 6th round. He's probably the third best center behind Okafor/Thabeet.

Art Quimby is probably a good pick in the 6th, but I wasn't even alive when he played, so I can't really back it.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Every pick I made, obviously.

In earnest though, I feel like taking two point guards back to back at 16 and 17 was a subtly intelligent move, even though neither player was the best guy available at the time.

 

[Matrim55]

I don't have a clearcut one here - I guess Denham jumps out at me in the 6th round. This could be a fun debate.

Taking Denham when Hanson was still on the board is actually the worst pick of either draft, especially for a team that lacked (and now forever lacks) an alpha scorer, or anybody who could put the ball on the floor to get to the hole and create his own shot. Unconscionably bad choice.

Some perspective: from 1964-1990, UConn won just 1 NCAA tourney game. It was during Hanson's junior year, and he was by far the best player on that team.

After the win we then met then-undefeated Rutgers in the Round of 16, and all Tony did was go for 23 points and 9 rebounds in a closer-than-the-score-indicated 93-79 loss. If he'd had a bit more range on his jumper, he would have been our first all-american.

Travis Knight in the 6th round. He's probably the third best center behind Okafor/Thabeet.

There is no "probably" about it. Knight's rebound rate and rebounds per 40 as a senior were higher than Okafor's best year, and he was by far the best passing center we've ever had. He also was a very good rim protector and low block defender, and ran the floor like a gazelle.

 

[tzznandrew]

I got UConn's 3rd leading scorer of all time in the last round...Tony Hanson is a 6'5" shooting guard who averaged 26ppg his senior year and made an NCAA all-regional team.

I think that's the best value. But I'm biased.

 

[UConn17]

I have the best and worst pick...well

 

[PcketknfNiels]

I got UConn's 3rd leading scorer of all time in the last round...Tony Hanson is a 6'5" shooting guard who averaged 26ppg his senior year and made an NCAA all-regional team.

I think that's the best value. But I'm biased.

And who, just months later, failed to even make the roster of an expansion team that only existed for about 3 years prior to that.

There's a reason everyone else passed on him

 

[tzznandrew]

And who, just months later, failed to even make the roster of an expansion team that only existed for about 3 years prior to that.

There's a reason everyone else passed on him

Because they don't know anything about him.

You don't average 26ppg and 10.5apg and win New England College Player of the Year because you suck. And, in fact, players who succeed in college don't always make the jump successfully. I think we disagree about how good Marcus Williams was (you value him more highly), but we both agree he was the best pure passer UConn had. He didn't stick too long...and they only reason he did at all was because he was guaranteed money. The NBA argument doesn't always work too well.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Because they don't know anything about him.

You don't average 26ppg and 10.5apg and win New England College Player of the Year because you suck. And, in fact, players who succeed in college don't always make the jump successfully. I think we disagree about how good Marcus Williams was (you value him more highly), but we both agree he was the best pure passer UConn had. He didn't stick too long...and they only reason he did at all was because he was guaranteed money. The NBA argument doesn't always work too well.

Nah, we all clearly did our homework. This just gets back to you seeing the shiny numbers and overrating them.

It was, uh, actually 10.5 rebounds. Sorry, but no 6'5 (Samoan?) player is pulling down 10+ RPG in a modern setting.
Anyways...You don't get cut before ever playing a game with an expansion franchise that's in like their 2nd or 3rd year of existence. No matter what could be said about Marcus or anyone else, they at least MADE the teams that drafted them, and those teams weren't horrible expansions devoid of talent. If Hanson had the goods, he wouldn't have been cut before ever playing an actual game for that New Orleans Jazz franchise.

 

[tzznandrew]

Nah, we all clearly did our homework. This just gets back to you seeing the shiny numbers and overrating them.

It was, uh, actually 10.5 rebounds. Sorry, but no 6'5 (Samoan?) player is pulling down 10+ RPG in a modern setting.
Anyways...You don't get cut before ever playing a game with an expansion franchise that's in like their 2nd or 3rd year of existence. No matter what could be said about Marcus or anyone else, they at least MADE the teams that drafted them, and those teams weren't horrible expansions devoid of talent. If Hanson had the goods, he wouldn't have been cut before ever playing an actual game for that New Orleans Jazz franchise.

Different era. I'm not worried about NBA: this is a college thing.

And yes, he probably isn't pulling down 10 rebounds. But it's relative: how many SGs were pulling down rebounds at that rate? It suggests a nose for the ball and strength. He was playing in an era of good basketball. So we'll disagree with that.

You seem to think his game wouldn't translate. You're wrong. We can both agree he wouldn't average 26 and 10 now. But I bet he'd average around 20 and 6--especially because of the 3pt line. You can disagree with that, but you're arguing a negative. I can tell you what he did, and the awards he won--both in the league, in New England, and in the NCAA tournament--and you can give me hypotheticals which are clearly biased. But let's not pretend we're talking about Toby Kimball here (a 6'6" PF). Or that we're talking about the 1950s.

Without Tony Hanson, there is no Big East for UConn. The end.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Different era. I'm not worried about NBA: this is a college thing.

And yes, he probably isn't pulling down 10 rebounds. But it's relative: how many SGs were pulling down rebounds at that rate? It suggests a nose for the ball and strength. He was playing in an era of good basketball. So we'll disagree with that.

You seem to think his game wouldn't translate. You're wrong. We can both agree he wouldn't average 26 and 10 now. But I bet he'd average around 20 and 6--especially because of the 3pt line. You can disagree with that, but you're arguing a negative. I can tell you what he did, and the awards he won--both in the league, in New England, and in the NCAA tournament--and you can give me hypotheticals which are clearly biased. But let's not pretend we're talking about Toby Kimball here (a 6'6" PF). Or that we're talking about the 1950s.

Without Tony Hanson, there is no Big East for UConn. The end.

Different era indeed, which is why you wasted the pick. The fact that he couldn't even make an expansion team's roster is just proof that his game isn't translatable to a higher level.

No, he's definitely not pulling down anything close to 10 boards a game (or did you mean apg? lol). The 70's were actually a particularly weak time for basketball as a whole, a ton of drug use and talent dilution at both the NBA and college levels. Give google a try.

Except that your argument is basically that "well he did it in the 70's IN NEW ENGLAND MAN", when the best indicator of whether his game could stick at a more athletically inclined level is his getting axed by the expansion Jazz before ever playing a game, and subsequently not even so much as given a cup of coffee anywhere else (and this was right post NBA/ABA merger so you know there was a ton of player turnover). Sorry, this isn't an NBA draft, but this is the hole you dig for yourself when taking such an old player.

Without Hanson...All well and good, what does that have to do with this draft exercise though?

 

[tzznandrew]

Different era indeed, which is why you wasted the pick. The fact that he couldn't even make an expansion team's roster is just proof that his game isn't translatable to a higher level.

No, he's definitely not pulling down anything close to 10 boards a game (or did you mean apg? lol). The 70's were actually a particularly weak time for basketball as a whole, a ton of drug use and talent dilution at both the NBA and college levels. Give google a try.

Except that your argument is basically that "well he did it in the 70's IN NEW ENGLAND MAN", when the best indicator of whether his game could stick at a more athletically inclined level is his getting axed by the expansion Jazz before ever playing a game, and subsequently not even so much as given a cup of coffee anywhere else (and this was right post NBA/ABA merger so you know there was a ton of player turnover). Sorry, this isn't an NBA draft, but this is the hole you dig for yourself when taking such an old player.

Without Hanson...All well and good, what does that have to do with this draft exercise though?

Dude. You're wrong about Hanson. He was a great player, and a very good athlete. He'd translate just fine into the modern game because of his athleticism, in a way that other older UConn guys wouldn't. You ask the question: what does that have to do with the draft exercise. I'll ask the same: what does the fact that he didn't make the Jazz have to do with it?

And the Yankee conference wasn't as good as the Big East, sure, but players like Doctor J came through there. Obviously Hanson isn't Erving, but you devalue Erving's stats when you devalue Hanson's. I'd say it's more likely that Hanson's game didn't translate well into the NBA than that anyone pre-Big East would probably not do anything (actually, really, anything pre-Calhoun or so, since you dismiss Thompson as well).

The mid-70s weren't nearly as bad as you are suggesting. 1979 had a Magic-Bird NCAA final. Hanson's career overlapped with David Thompson, Bill Walton, Len Elmore, Adrian Dantley, John Lucas, Scott May, Bernard King, Phil Ford, Bill Cartwright, Cedric Maxwell, Mychal Thompson, and Larry Bird.

And the NABC had Hanson on one of their All-America teams. That players like David Thompson flamed out a bit in the NBA doesn't mean that they weren't great players.

I guess, though, we'll leave this up to the voters on Wednesday.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

Dude. You're wrong about Hanson. He was a great player, and a very good athlete. He'd translate just fine into the modern game because of his athleticism, in a way that other older UConn guys wouldn't. You ask the question: what does that have to do with the draft exercise. I'll ask the same: what does the fact that he didn't make the Jazz have to do with it?

And the Yankee conference wasn't as good as the Big East, sure, but players like Doctor J came through there. Obviously Hanson isn't Erving, but you devalue Erving's stats when you devalue Hanson's. I'd say it's more likely that Hanson's game didn't translate well into the NBA than that anyone pre-Big East would probably not do anything (actually, really, anything pre-Calhoun or so, since you dismiss Thompson as well).

The mid-70s weren't nearly as bad as you are suggesting. 1979 had a Magic-Bird NCAA final. Hanson's career overlapped with David Thompson, Bill Walton, Len Elmore, Adrian Dantley, John Lucas, Scott May, Bernard King, Phil Ford, Bill Cartwright, Cedric Maxwell, Mychal Thompson, and Larry Bird.

And the NABC had Hanson on one of their All-America teams. That players like David Thompson flamed out a bit in the NBA doesn't mean that they weren't great players.

I guess, though, we'll leave this up to the voters on Wednesday.

The only proof either of us have is the fact he couldn't even make an expansion NBA team's roster, even to play a single game. If he truly had the athletic chops to hang in the modern college game, much less go for anything even close to 20 and 6, he would have at least BEEN ON AN NBA ROSTER AT SOME POINT IN HIS PROFESSIONAL CAREER.

I'm bringing that point up because the modern college game more closely associates with the mid 70's NBA than just judging Hanson's own stats playing in the Yankee conference. The dude didn't have the chops to even sniff an NBA court, which is not something you can say about ANY prominent UConn player since then. Even if a guy like KEA or Marcus or someone else didn't exactly have a stellar NBA career, they at least proved themselves in the modernized college game, and even KEA got onto an NBA court for 50 games.

Take Bird away because he really belonged to the 80's, and what you're left with pales in comparison to the rest of the 60's-present.

Bird/Magic weren't in the NBA until the 1980 season. Even then, neither made their names on athleticism.

 

[tzznandrew]

We'll disagree, of course, since we're facing off.

Bird played 2 of the same years Hanson played. They were both on NABC All America teams. And, I'll aso disagree on what we can say he did: Hanson made the East Regional NCAA team. Some great college players' games don't translate well in the NBA. That's always been the case. Tony Hanson was a great college player.

We'll let the voters decide Wednesday. Perhaps they will agree with you. Certainly, I'm taking a chance, since people haven't seen him play.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

We'll disagree, of course, since we're facing off.

Bird played 2 of the same years Hanson played. They were both on NABC All America teams. And, I'll aso disagree on what we can say he did: Hanson made the East Regional NCAA team. Some great college players' games don't translate well in the NBA. That's always been the case. Tony Hanson was a great college player.

We'll let the voters decide Wednesday. Perhaps they will agree with you. Certainly, I'm taking a chance, since people haven't seen him play.

They overlapped only 1 year.

Lets keep our actual matchup posts to like 1-2 post each, deal? I'd like to enjoy what other people have to say when the time comes than be embroiled saying the same stuff in 3 days that we've already been saying here

 

[tzznandrew]

They overlapped only 1 year.

Lets keep our actual matchup posts to like 1-2 post each, deal? I'd like to enjoy what other people have to say when the time comes than be embroiled saying the same stuff in 3 days that we've already been saying here

I forgot that he didn't play that first year after Indiana.

We're both passionate about our teams...I agree, though. I'm also willing to let it rest until Wednesday. I'm sure we both have other things we should be doing.

Also, wasn't trying to take the moral high ground before, more or less trying to do what you are saying here. I don't want to muck up the board, but I clearly don't have the restraint to not defend my position.

 

[PcketknfNiels]

I forgot that he didn't play that first year after Indiana.

We're both passionate about our teams...I agree, though. I'm also willing to let it rest until Wednesday. I'm sure we both have other things we should be doing.

Also, wasn't trying to take the moral high ground before, more or less trying to do what you are saying here. I don't want to muck up the board, but I clearly don't have the restraint to not defend my position.

Anything else is fine, I'll just take you at your word for Wednesday though.