Former players/parents dish on Newbauer

[dws3665]

Never know what to make out of stories like this where really only one side is presented, though some of the examples listed sound pretty bad.

And this article does not even touch on the (perhaps?) main reason that Newbauer was reputedly let go -- which was allegedly inappropriate relationships within the program (not involving players).

Former Florida women’s basketball players detail abuse under Coach Newbauer - The Independent Florida Alligator

The head coach is accused of making racist remarks, throwing basketballs at players during practices, and verbally abusing the team, assistant coaches and trainers.

www.alligator.org

 

[cancontent]

Never know what to make out of stories like this where really only one side is presented, though some of the examples listed sound pretty bad.

And this article does not even touch on the (perhaps?) main reason that Newbauer was reputedly let go -- which was allegedly inappropriate relationships within the program (not involving players).

Former Florida women’s basketball players detail abuse under Coach Newbauer - The Independent Florida Alligator

The head coach is accused of making racist remarks, throwing basketballs at players during practices, and verbally abusing the team, assistant coaches and trainers.

www.alligator.org

I'm not sure how this could be considered one sided. Reports go back several years (2018 I believe) and like Syracuse, the information is coming from more than just players and their families.

The athletic director acknowledged receiving reports of issues, noting he gave Newbauer several chances to improve when a new report came to light. How he earned an extension, knowing about the reports and the less than exciting win record has me stumped.

 

[Vowelguy]

So sad. I recall the coach at BU (1 or 2 before Marisa) also got fired for horrible treatment of players. There have been others, far far too many.

yes coaches will yell and scream at players (PHS did and Geno certainly does), but Newbauer et al are going so far beyond that. Strange that they think it will work and motivate players.

 

[Vowelguy]

Gotta question how the assistant coaches remain and one is now acting HC. They were complicit.

 

[dws3665]

I'm not sure how this could be considered one sided. Reports go back several years (2018 I believe) and like Syracuse, the information is coming from more than just players and their families.

The athletic director acknowledged receiving reports of issues, noting he gave Newbauer several chances to improve when a new report came to light. How he earned an extension, knowing about the reports and the less than exciting win record has me stumped.

While I agree that there are some corroborating statements from Stricklin (why wouldn’t there be, at this point? Newbauer’s already gone, and Stricklin has to do some face-saving, too), it’s one-sided because none of the other players who might presumably have liked Newbauer commented (and I don’t think the article mentions whether they were even asked), none of the ACs commented, and neither did Newbauer.

I think it looks very bad for Newbauer, and like I said in the OP, I think there was actually another reason entirely for the dismissal (or so I’ve been told). Bit it’s a cliche for a reason - there really are (at least) two sides to every story.

 

[dws3665]

Gotta question how the assistant coaches remain and one is now acting HC. They were complicit.

Which makes me question Stricklin’s “we took it seriously and then took action” response, tbh.

 

[cancontent]

While I agree that there are some corroborating statements from Stricklin (why wouldn’t there be, at this point? Newbauer’s already gone, and Stricklin has to do some face-saving, too), it’s one-sided because none of the other players who might presumably have liked Newbauer commented (and I don’t think the article mentions whether they were even asked), none of the ACs commented, and neither did Newbauer.

I think it looks very bad for Newbauer, and like I said in the OP, I think there was actually another reason entirely for the dismissal (or so I’ve been told). Bit it’s a cliche for a reason - there really are (at least) two sides to every story.

Yes, there always are 2 sides. It's also noted by another poster that he's had a reputation from his previous school, so it seems like there was a pattern of this.

There could be a totally different reason for why he resigned, however I have no insight to corroborate what you're speculating. What I do know is that there weren't that many players who were fans of him once they got onto campus and started working with him full time. That team could have had a few more players in the portal had it not been too late to do so.

 

[clbabson]

While I agree that there are some corroborating statements from Stricklin (why wouldn’t there be, at this point? Newbauer’s already gone, and Stricklin has to do some face-saving, too), it’s one-sided because none of the other players who might presumably have liked Newbauer commented (and I don’t think the article mentions whether they were even asked), none of the ACs commented, and neither did Newbauer.

I think it looks very bad for Newbauer, and like I said in the OP, I think there was actually another reason entirely for the dismissal (or so I’ve been told). Bit it’s a cliche for a reason - there really are (at least) two sides to every story.

So how would hearing from him change this at all?

 

[visitingcock]

Bobby Knight:

From reading this, I imagine that all of the Florida players cited in this would consider him to be an abuser. But, many of his former players loved him despite his "tough love."

It will be interesting to see if any of Newbauer's former players attempt to defend his actions. OR if any of the players come to the aid of the assistants. The latter could explain the appointment of the interim coach.

 

[Vowelguy]

Yes I would be curious to hear from any player that had a more favorable experience … if they exist. But Belmont was successful. Hard to believe they’d do that well if all the players were miserable.

 

[CocoHusky]

Just don't understand how a Male Practice player (Morang) would quit and leave the toxic environment yet leave his sister behind to fend for herself.

 

[Vowelguy]

Just don't understand how a Male Practice player (Morang) would quit and leave the toxic environment yet leave his sister behind to fend for herself.

Uh because he’s not the boss of her and she can decide for herself?

 

[cancontent]

Just don't understand how a Male Practice player (Morang) would quit and leave the toxic environment yet leave his sister behind to fend for herself.

I'm perplexed by this too. My only guess is that she couldn't transfer at that point and had to wait it out.

 

[CocoHusky]

Uh because he’s not the boss of her and she can decide for herself?

You really don't understand this abuse thing do you? It's his sister. Victims of abuse are often the last to recognize they are in an abusive situation. If the environment is too toxic for you it is probably too toxic for your sister and you need to do anything you can to get her the hell out of there. If she decided to still stay I agree with you but them you need to blow the whistle loudly until someone listens to you. At minimum call your parents and let them know. Don't want to advocate violence here but I would certainly understand it being used here in the interest of getting her out.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

 

[clbabson]

You really don't understand this abuse thing do you? It's his sister. Victims of abuse are often the last to recognize they are in an abusive situation. If the environment is too toxic for you it is probably too toxic for your sister and you need to do anything you can to get her the hell out of there. If she decided to still stay I agree with you but them you need to blow the whistle loudly until someone listens to you. At minimum call your parents and let them know. Don't want to advocate violence here but I would certainly understand it being used here in the interest of getting her out.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

If you had any experience in an abusive relationship you would know how complex the issue actually is. This is not a fair judgment on her or her brother.

 

[cancontent]

You really don't understand this abuse thing do you? It's his sister. Victims of abuse are often the last to recognize they are in an abusive situation. If the environment is too toxic for you it is probably too toxic for your sister and you need to do anything you can to get her the hell out of there. If she decided to still stay I agree with you but them you need to blow the whistle loudly until someone listens to you. At minimum call your parents and let them know. Don't want to advocate violence here but I would certainly understand it being used here in the interest of getting her out.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

If you had any experience in an abusive relationship you would know how complex the issue actually is. This is not a fair judgment on her or her brother.

I think both of you have valid points.

I agree with @CocoHusky comment about victims of abuse as there data does confirm this. @clbabson's point is valid as we don't know what conversations went on within the family about their specific situation.

What really matters is that I hope this woman and her family have gotten and continue to get the support they need when necessary.

 

[clbabson]

I think both of you have valid points.

I agree with @CocoHusky comment about victims of abuse as there data does confirm this. @clbabson's point is valid as we don't know what conversations went on within the family about their specific situation.

What really matters is that I hope this woman and her family have gotten and continue to get the support they need when necessary.

Agreed, but starting off with "You don't know this abuse thing do you..." is not the way to talk about a topic like this. This couldn't be any further from a binary issue. "Blowing the whistle" - especially in the midst of a season or "calling your parents" to create visibility is HARD because it equates to risk for that individual. I can't explain it, but you do know that a situation is wrong, whether you label it as abuse or not in your own head. You have moments telling you that you should do something but there are thoughts that creep in to the contrary too.

I'd also appreciate if one of you could post the stats around victims not realizing they are victims. I tried to find it but couldn't (easily enough anyway). I'm legitimately interested, so thank you in advance!

 

[CocoHusky]

Agreed, but starting off with "You don't know this abuse thing do you..." is not the way to talk about a topic like this. This couldn't be any further from a binary issue. "Blowing the whistle" - especially in the midst of a season or "calling your parents" to create visibility is HARD because it equates to risk for that individual. I can't explain it, but you do know that a situation is wrong, whether you label it as abuse or not in your own head. You have moments telling you that you should do something but there are thoughts that creep in to the contrary too.

I'd also appreciate if one of you could post the stats around victims not realizing they are victims. I tried to find it but couldn't (easily enough anyway). I'm legitimately interested, so thank you in advance!

You are absolutely right. That was a way to start a dialogue about a very delicate and complex subject- I apologize.

 

[clbabson]

You are absolutely right. That was a way to start a dialogue about a very delicate and complex subject- I apologize.

No worries at all. I know we all just kind of type - I do it sometimes also. I'm a bit more attuned to the issue because of my experiences, so I was coming from a different place too. All good!

 

[dws3665]

So how would hearing from him change this at all?

You cannot imagine him saying anything that would alter your perspective on this? You don't think the players and their families might be presenting him in the worst possible light and themselves in the best? While I am not sure I would give him a ton of credibility at this point, there could certainly be some context about the players' complaints that would be informative (maybe they were known complainers; maybe they were troublemakers in the locker room, etc. - Not saying any of this is true, but I can imagine scenarios where context matters). Same with the assistant coaches' perspective.

I promise I am not trying to cape for Newbauer. I thought he was a bad hire, and I didn't think he was moving the program in the right direction. But to repeat myself, there is always more than one side to a story.

 

[cancontent]

Agreed, but starting off with "You don't know this abuse thing do you..." is not the way to talk about a topic like this. This couldn't be any further from a binary issue. "Blowing the whistle" - especially in the midst of a season or "calling your parents" to create visibility is HARD because it equates to risk for that individual. I can't explain it, but you do know that a situation is wrong, whether you label it as abuse or not in your own head. You have moments telling you that you should do something but there are thoughts that creep in to the contrary too.

I'd also appreciate if one of you could post the stats around victims not realizing they are victims. I tried to find it but couldn't (easily enough anyway). I'm legitimately interested, so thank you in advance!

What I've bolded is another good way to paraphrase what both @CocoHusky and I noted regarding victims not seeing what's happening. Sometimes victims don't realize this until it's too late.

Maybe the phrasing we used generalized things, but from what I was taught in high school and afterwards, it was always noted that victims may not even realize what's happening as the abuse can get worse over time. I also have women's shelters as business clients, where some of their clients have been kind enough to share their stories where they've said just as much.

The link below is from the Mayo Clinic and noted this in the opening part of their summary:

"It might not be easy to identify domestic violence at first. While some relationships are clearly abusive from the outset, abuse often starts subtly and gets worse over time."

Recognize the signs of domestic violence against women

Domestic violence can happen to anyone. Understand how to break the cycle of abuse.

www.mayoclinic.org

It may not be data, but it's an American source that can be verified. Hope this helps.

 

[Vowelguy]

Very typical of the BY, and social media in general, to read 1 newspaper article and conclude to know everything about the situation and how each person exactly felt.

 

[JellyBean]

Wow. As a high school girls basketball coach, these stories always breaks my heart because you hate to have any female go through these types of abuse. As a parent of a female athlete, I really hate to hear of these stories. Like others have said, coaches are going to raise their voices at players, kick players out of practice from time to time, or make some off handed remark about a player. When it becomes abusive in nature where a player is crying, folks have to step in. Sadly, like any toxic environment, folks see the wrong happening but are powerless to help. Folks, like the sibling who quit the practice squad because the way he saw the players being treated, can walk away but don't do enough to stop the abuse from continuing. Just sad on so many levels.

 

[cancontent]

Very typical of the BY, and social media in general, to read 1 newspaper article and conclude to know everything about the situation and how each person exactly felt.

This is a forum of opinions and we're expressing them. You take our thoughts as "knowing everything" and would prefer to defer until you know more, fine.

However, to me, it's no different than your responses in other threads saying it's "not going to happen" when ideas if seniors games were being bandied about.

And assuming anyone who has expressed their opinion is doing it off of just one article, isn't a fair judgement. Some have noted they've heard things, not listed in the article. Others may have heard something through the WBB parents/players networks out there. You just never know.

 

[Vowelguy]

would prefer to defer until you know more, fine.
.

No didn’t say that. Would be curious for more info but nbd.
But whether any particular player was in an “abusuve relationship” from which they needed rescue is pretty much unknowable.

It was a bad situation for most if not all players. How it impacted each one don’t think anyone knows.

 

[clbabson]

What I've bolded is another good way to paraphrase what both @CocoHusky and I noted regarding victims not seeing what's happening. Sometimes victims don't realize this until it's too late.

Maybe the phrasing we used generalized things, but from what I was taught in high school and afterwards, it was always noted that victims may not even realize what's happening as the abuse can get worse over time. I also have women's shelters as business clients, where some of their clients have been kind enough to share their stories where they've said just as much.

The link below is from the Mayo Clinic and noted this in the opening part of their summary:

"It might not be easy to identify domestic violence at first. While some relationships are clearly abusive from the outset, abuse often starts subtly and gets worse over time."

Recognize the signs of domestic violence against women

Domestic violence can happen to anyone. Understand how to break the cycle of abuse.

www.mayoclinic.org

It may not be data, but it's an American source that can be verified. Hope this helps.

@cancontent Thank you so much for sharing this! I worked for a non-profit right after college and ran a matched savings program for low income households. We had a whole network of community organizations in NH that worked directly with folks in various capacities (housing, homelessness, etc.). I got to meet some of the participants and their families, which was really cool. At one point we even had to work with a few clients directly. Some of the stories were just tragic but it was so cool to see them in this program and manifesting a better life for themselves. Good on you for your work in that space too!

 

[clbabson]

You cannot imagine him saying anything that would alter your perspective on this? You don't think the players and their families might be presenting him in the worst possible light and themselves in the best? While I am not sure I would give him a ton of credibility at this point, there could certainly be some context about the players' complaints that would be informative (maybe they were known complainers; maybe they were troublemakers in the locker room, etc. - Not saying any of this is true, but I can imagine scenarios where context matters). Same with the assistant coaches' perspective.

I promise I am not trying to cape for Newbauer. I thought he was a bad hire, and I didn't think he was moving the program in the right direction. But to repeat myself, there is always more than one side to a story.

Oh totally. I'm not sure anyone is on here defending his behavior so I didn't take it that way. For me, I would answer No to anything him saying changing my perspective for this reason... Situationally, you are so right that context matters. If we looked at every individual 'event' there may be some exceptions. Systematically though, I don't think context matters when someone is being harmed. I'm way more cautious about "incidents" than I am about stories like this where it's more pervasive across his tenure.

Anyway, no right or wrong but hopefully that helps understand my thought process.

 

[dws3665]

I think that's fair. You would have to work pretty hard to not see a pattern. Contrast this to other coaches who are known to be "tough" (though I hesitate to even use that word to compare to Newbauer) -- folks like Pat Summitt, Geno, Dawn, Mulkey -- and it's just not that hard to make out the distinction between "tough" and "abusive jerk."

 

[Vowelguy]

Additional reporting by ESPN.

Florida Gators women's basketball players detail alleged abuse by former coach Cam Newbauer

Former Florida Gators players told ESPN that their coach Cameron Newbauer routinely belittled them at practices, made racially insensitive comments and threw basketballs at players.

www.espn.com

 

[cancontent]

Additional reporting by ESPN.

Florida Gators women's basketball players detail alleged abuse by former coach Cam Newbauer

Former Florida Gators players told ESPN that their coach Cameron Newbauer routinely belittled them at practices, made racially insensitive comments and threw basketballs at players.

www.espn.com

I didn't understand this section:

" "There's parts of every story that are exaggerated but I don't think anybody's lying," the source said.

He told ESPN that Newbauer's practices were "emotional" and "intense" and that the former coach's greatest issue was that he coached everyone the same, even those players who might not respond to "hard coaching." He added that he never witnessed anything that, to him, crossed the line."

It sounds like he's hedging/waffling. That's the vibe I get. It's like, "yes, but not as bad as you think." I don't understand how that helps to explain things. What am I missing?