For all the heat Herbst has taken here...

[UConnSportsGuy]

maybe she was just playing chess while most others were playing checkers.

In the most likely scenario, 3 years from now we will be in exactly the same place as Louisville (a watered down ACC), but with a whole lot more money in our pocket than Louisville.

Or in the best case scenario (about a 5% chance of happening)--in a better place than Louisville (B1G) with a WHOLE LOT more money than Louisville.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

But wont Louisville make up the difference between the 2 with the additional ACC money anyways ?

 

[UConnRock]

But wont Louisville make up the difference between the 2 with the additional ACC money anyways ?

Very doubtful that Louisville will be getting a full ACC share for a while. BCU, Miami and VT had to wait until their 3rd years before getting a full share. I think that is pretty standard for conference moves. As far as Herbst planning this.....if UConn ends up in the B1G I will give Herbst all the credit for presenting an academic and athletic plan that the B1G accepts. If UConn ends up in the watered down ACC then Herbst gets no credit as she could never have predicted the C7 move and this windfall of cash.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

If UConn ends up in the watered down ACC then Herbst gets no credit as she could never have predicted the C7 move and this windfall of cash.

Not so sure that is true. There were reports out there for a long time that the C7 were saying that if any one of UConn or Louisville were to leave the BE, then the C7 would look to break apart and form their own conference. Maybe the C7 Presidents made that very clear from the beginning that it was their stance?

 

[Rumrunner]

If UConn lands on its feet, Herbst gets all the credit.

If we're in this clown shoe conference she gets all the blame.

The trouble some us have is that we're unsure of her views on what's going on. Why did she put out a pr (was it strategic) calling this new conference a perfect fit? Did she really mean it?

 

[WestHartHusk]

maybe she was just playing chess while most others were playing checkers.

In the most likely scenario, 3 years from now we will be in exactly the same place as Louisville (a watered down ACC), but with a whole lot more money in our pocket than Louisville.

Or in the best case scenario (about a 5% chance of happening)--in a better place than Louisville (B1G) with a WHOLE LOT more money than Louisville.

1) as much as I want to believe your theory, if that is what she did she should be fired immediately for playing Russian roullete with the University;

2) don't underestimate the brand damage this is going to occur after two years of association w/ ECU, SMU & Tulane.

 

[ZooCougar]

maybe she was just playing chess while most others were playing checkers.

In the most likely scenario, 3 years from now we will be in exactly the same place as Louisville (a watered down ACC), but with a whole lot more money in our pocket than Louisville.

Or in the best case scenario (about a 5% chance of happening)--in a better place than Louisville (B1G) with a WHOLE LOT more money than Louisville.

What makes you think she is playing chess? How is that scenario "most likely"? Serious question.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

What makes you think she is playing chess?

I don't know if she is playing chess...just a rhetorical question to throw out there.

How is that scenario "most likely"? Serious question.

In my opinion, I think that in a few years we will in an ACC that does not include UNC, NC St, Virginia, GT, FSU, or Clemson. If I was a betting man, that is where I would place my money at this point. Do you disagree? What do you think is the most likely scenario for us in a few years? Status Quo?

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't know if she is playing chess...just a rhetorical question to throw out there.





In my opinion, I think that in a few years we will in an ACC that does not include UNC, NC St, Virginia, GT, FSU, or Clemson. If I was a betting man, that is where I would place my money at this point. Do you disagree? What do you think is the most likely scenario for us in a few years? Status Quo?

I used to think the way you are, but lately I have been buying into the conclusion that schools and conference will see diminishing returns in realignment and the ACC schools will be among the first to stop the madness so to speak. In short, the music may have stopped playing.

UConn needs to study how Utah and TCU dealt with being on the outside, and how they grew. (HINT: GREAT COACHES, NOT INCOHERENT AND OUTDATED RETREADS). And try to avoid doing whatever Colorado State did. Once upon a time they had a decent football program...

 

[SubbaBub]

"Heat" is a function of the difference in time it takes for conference realignment to work itself out and the time it takes to post on an internet message board.

That said, Pitt, Cuse, WVA, Louisville, Rutgers, Missou, and Texas A&M have all made major conference upgrades during her tenure and we haven't. There is a reason to be miffed.

 

[businesslawyer]

"Heat" is a function of the difference in time it takes for conference realignment to work itself out and the time it takes to post on an internet message board.

That said, Pitt, Cuse, WVA, Louisville, Rutgers, Missou, and Texas A&M have all made major conference upgrades during her tenure and we haven't. There is a reason to be miffed.

They didn't do it because she lost a game of darts. They did it for a number of different reasons -- some because geopolitics trumps anything you can do (Rutgers for example) and some because they had decades of a head start creating a public image both by playing football at a higher level than us and, until very recently in the history of the U.S. state university system, having better and more prestigious universities. None of those are things you "fix" in eighteen months.

The only thing she could have done better is engage in better PR with the FSU fanbase, but the thought that anyone could have believed 18 months ago that conference realignment would be changed by one school's fanbase is just dumb. And I'm not sure you could have changed the impression in that time even if you had tried.

 

[ZooCougar]

They didn't do it because she lost a game of darts. They did it for a number of different reasons -- some because geopolitics trumps anything you can do (Rutgers for example) and some because they had decades of a head start creating a public image both by playing football at a higher level than us and, until very recently in the history of the U.S. state university system, having better and more prestigious universities. None of those are things you "fix" in eighteen months.

The only thing she could have done better is engage in better PR with the FSU fanbase, but the thought that anyone could have believed 18 months ago that conference realignment would be changed by one school's fanbase is just dumb. And I'm not sure you could have changed the impression in that time even if you had tried.

Been reading your posts avidly since the Fall of 2005. And I can't recall a single instance where you were critical of someone in an Executive/Decision Making role. Tranghese, Marinatto, Herbst, Aresco, Manuel etc.

How badly must an Executive fail at something in order for you to be critical of their performance? Is Mark Emmert doing a good job too? Or are you just sympathetic?

 

[businesslawyer]

Been reading your posts avidly since the Fall of 2005. And I can't recall a single instance where you were critical of someone in an Executive/Decision Making role. Tranghese, Marinatto, Herbst, Aresco, Manuel etc.

How badly must an Executive fail at something in order for you to be critical of their performance? Is Mark Emmert doing a good job too? Or are you just sympathetic?

In hindsight, I think Hathaway was not up for the job. The string of Big East Commissioners were simply playing out a hand that was not going to survive the geopolitical events going on around it.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

I used to think the way you are, but lately I have been buying into the conclusion that schools and conference will see diminishing returns in realignment and the ACC schools will be among the first to stop the madness so to speak. In short, the music may have stopped playing.

I can see that thought process as well. Although I have heard from multiple B1G people that they think there is very little chance that the league ever plays a season with only 14 teams. The only risk is if B1G gets to 16 by stealing 2 ACC teams and the ACC just decides to stay at 12 teams instead of getting back to 14 (which is a very real risk in my mind).

 

[tzznandrew]

In hindsight, I think Hathaway was not up for the job. The string of Big East Commissioners were simply playing out a hand that was not going to survive the geopolitical events going on around it.

I had little problem with Tranghese. I think that initial raid was just totally out of the blue, and no one expected it to happen. He then knew he needed to add football schools, and I think Louisville, Cincy, and USF were the best options out there, and two of them were good basketball schools. That should have been enough, really, and we probably didn't need to add Marquette and DePaul, although Marquette has been a welcome addition. But, the C7 (5 at the time) didn't see it that way, and he needed to get those schools in, so he did what he had to do. He represented both sides, and I think he did okay given that.

Marinatto...geez. The guy should never have been picked in the first place. He was in over his head. Once the first raid happened in 2003, I mean...he should have known it could happen again... and yet, it all just felt so bungled. Which is weird, because things were going so well, so it seemed, with the addition of TCU. It just seemed like a good call. And them, once things started moving, he was caught with his pants down.

Aresco....I don't know what to say about the guy. He was dealt a bad hand, but he didn't do anything to help the conference. Nothing. Could something be done? Maybe not. But he could have not invited Tulane, for one thing...

Hathaway was a disaster. It seems clear now, and it seemed clear then.

I have no problem with Herbst or Warde yet. Things aren't going well, but they haven't had much time to react.

 

[junglehusky]

All the commishes were in the same boat. They don't have power over the presidents, they serve the presidents, or try to. When there's no coherence among the presidents there's not much they can do except invite replacements. Would Marinatto have been a good commisioner in another, more stable league? Maybe. Was he the wrong guy for the Big East? Probably. But I can't imagine anyone doing significantly better, or being able to keep Pittacuse, Rutgers and WVU from leaving (oh and TCU too), as long as the presidents are the ones driving the bus.

 

[RMoore1999]

They didn't do it because she lost a game of darts. They did it for a number of different reasons -- some because geopolitics trumps anything you can do (Rutgers for example) and some because they had decades of a head start creating a public image both by playing football at a higher level than us and, until very recently in the history of the U.S. state university system, having better and more prestigious universities. None of those are things you "fix" in eighteen months.

The only thing she could have done better is engage in better PR with the FSU fanbase, but the thought that anyone could have believed 18 months ago that conference realignment would be changed by one school's fanbase is just dumb. And I'm not sure you could have changed the impression in that time even if you had tried.

Your 1st paragraph is 100% accurate.

As to your 2nd paragraph, no Boneyarder truly knows what she did or didnt do and whether or not she had the opportunity to do better.

And back to your 1st paragraph -- "geopolitics" is far more likely than anything Herbst/Manuel will or will not do to be the reason Connecticut eventually finds a home more attractive than this current -pie conference yet to be named.

Its too bad the majority of this fanbase cant bring itself to accept that there is a less than 0% chance that the B1G and SEC stay at 14 and that B12 stays at 10. And more than 2 spots will be available for, at worst, a 5th conference superior to our current lot.

 

[RMoore1999]

I can see that thought process as well. Although I have heard from multiple B1G people that they think there is very little chance that the league ever plays a season with only 14 teams. The only risk is if B1G gets to 16 by stealing 2 ACC teams and the ACC just decides to stay at 12 teams instead of getting back to 14 (which is a very real risk in my mind).

Even if the B1G took two and ACC preferred not to find replacements, do you really believe that the SEC is going to sit tight at 14? b12 at 10? There's virtually no risk of acc having the luxury to hang at 12.

Connecticut will be moving irrespective of the relative (in)competence of Herbst/Manuel; unfortunately it may take a year or two.

 

[CL82]

1) as much as I want to believe your theory, if that is what she did she should be fired immediately for playing Russian roullete with the University;

2) don't underestimate the brand damage this is going to occur after two years of association w/ ECU, SMU & Tulane.

If we get out in year 3, not much. But if we linger...

 

[freescooter]

I had little problem with Tranghese. I think that initial raid was just totally out of the blue, and no one expected it to happen. He then knew he needed to add football schools, and I think Louisville, Cincy, and USF were the best options out there, and two of them were good basketball schools. That should have been enough, really, and we probably didn't need to add Marquette and DePaul, although Marquette has been a welcome addition. But, the C7 (5 at the time) didn't see it that way, and he needed to get those schools in, so he did what he had to do. He represented both sides, and I think he did okay given that.

Marinatto...geez. The guy should never have been picked in the first place. He was in over his head. Once the first raid happened in 2003, I mean...he should have known it could happen again... and yet, it all just felt so bungled. Which is weird, because things were going so well, so it seemed, with the addition of TCU. It just seemed like a good call. And them, once things started moving, he was caught with his pants down.

Aresco....I don't know what to say about the guy. He was dealt a bad hand, but he didn't do anything to help the conference. Nothing. Could something be done? Maybe not. But he could have not invited Tulane, for one thing...

Hathaway was a disaster. It seems clear now, and it seemed clear then.

I have no problem with Herbst or Warde yet. Things aren't going well, but they haven't had much time to react.

bl is very deferential to those in authority I think.
The string of Big East Commissioners before Aresco were a string of paper pushers at best. When you look at guys like Scott, and even Swofford, you see guys who actually try and lead their conferences.Sometimes they are wrong, but it isn't because they are afraid to make moves. Tranghese and Marrinato made no effort to do that. That's the difference between a great commissioner and a clerk. We had 2 clerks. Marrinato was perhaps the worst one ever. Had no clue what was going on. He had a big mouth. And proposed Villanova as an upgrade. Please. But I don't let Tranghese off the hook either. There were rumors about the Miami/BC move as far back as 1999. He did nothing until it was too late. I'm personally not so sure that Aresco is that bad. He I think just got caught in a buzz saw created by his inept predecessors. There just aren't that many teams out there who bring anything to the table. Either a new football conference would be formed or it wouldn't. The Catholics were going.

I do have a problem with Herbst on the athletic front. Less so with Manuel. I just don't think she gets it. You read and hear her speak on this and its almost embarassing (winning winners who like to win winningly, or something like that). On the other hand I really like how she is aggressively pushing ot upgrade the university, expand it raise major funding. I think she needs a Harry Hartley who gets the role of athletics as an executive VP with authority just to run it. Or give Manuel that authority like the Louisville AD has. But I'm really not sure that Herbst knows, or cares for that matter, if UConn athletics ends up closer to a level that Houston has been at, or SMU has been at over the past few decades. Both were once upon a time major players. Now, not so much.

 

[Bezzz]

bl is very differential to those in authority I think.
I do have a problem with Herbst on the athletic front. Less so with Manuel. I just don't think she gets it. You read and hear her speak on this and its almost embarassing (winning winners who like to win winningly, or something like that). On the other hand I really like how she is aggressively pushing ot upgrade the university, expand it raise major funding. I think she needs a Harry Hartley who gets the role of athletics as an executive VP with authority just to run it. Or give Manuel that authority like the Louisville AD has. But I'm really not sure that Herbst knows, or cares for that matter, if UConn athletics ends up closer to a level that Houston has been at, or SMU has been at over the past few decades. Both were once upon a time major players. Now, not so much.

I'm starting to believe that Suzy is the master of reverse psychology. Pretty much everything she publicly says could mean the opposite. Do you want her to say " we're in a horrible conference and we're outta here asap" or placate all the NBE newbies by saying " what a great fit and all the presidents are so nice" until we say see ya have a nice day!

 

[freescooter]

I recognize that she can't do the former. I just think she should shut up and not say anything. Never mind the other great universities crap. I mean St Johns and Seton Hall were the Ivy League compared to Memphis and Central Florida. And St Johns and Seton Hall are nothing to write home about!

 

[Rumrunner]

I just wonder why she feels compelled to say how great everything is.

After Syracuse and Pitt left, and UConn was shot down for the acc in the fall of 2011, she said the big east would be great, and that regionalism was over.

Then WVU (and TCU) bolted. Still nothing from her about working her ass everyday on these issues. Instead more kumbaya claptrap.

Then Rutgers goes, ND goes, then Louisville goes. She then feels it's incumbent upon her to say how great the BE is.

Now the catholics are gone. The tune remains the same- uconn loves the new schools and the exciting and novel opportunities of this new conference.

What sane person would think this, never mind be quoted saying it? It's just not believable. As noted above, the winning winners win it all stuff, off to the USVI, skipping the IMG conference..one can't stop wondering if she doesn't get it. Before you savants chirp, "what do you want her to say", guess what she can say nothing. As soon as she speaks "quite the contrary, no hard feelings", I mean WTF? She's happy they left, because that's what she says?

I know that there are her political enemies and allies here that see nothing but bad/good in what she says and does. There used to be 16 other teams in the big east, aq designation, bowl tie ins, chance at significant revenue increase. we as a fanbase have nothing now. No money, no tv exposure, no bowl games, locked out of the oligopoly, scant few seats left at the table, and the ignominy of being lumped in with Tulsa, Memphis, ecu, Houston...without really knowing if she is sickened by these turn of events as is 99% of the fanbase. That is what troubles me.

 

[huskymedic]

I just wonder why she feels compelled to say how great everything is.

After Syracuse and Pitt left, and UConn was shot down for the acc in the fall of 2011, she said the big east would be great, and that regionalism was over.

Then WVU (and TCU) bolted. Still nothing from her about working her ass everyday on these issues. Instead more kumbaya claptrap.

Then Rutgers goes, ND goes, then Louisville goes. She then feels it's incumbent upon her to say how great the BE is.

Now the catholics are gone. The tune remains the same- uconn loves the new schools and the exciting and novel opportunities of this new conference.

What sane person would think this, never mind be quoted saying it? It's just not believable. As noted above, the winning winners win it all stuff, off to the USVI, skipping the IMG conference..one can't stop wondering if she doesn't get it. Before you savants chirp, "what do you want her to say", guess what she can say nothing. As soon as she speaks "quite the contrary, no hard feelings", I mean WTF? She's happy they left, because that's what she says?

I know that there are her political enemies and allies here that see nothing but bad/good in what she says and does. There used to be 16 other teams in the big east, aq designation, bowl tie ins, chance at significant revenue increase. we as a fanbase have nothing now. No money, no tv exposure, no bowl games, locked out of the oligopoly, scant few seats left at the table, and the ignominy of being lumped in with Tulsa, Memphis, ecu, Houston...without really knowing if she is sickened by these turn of events as is 99% of the fanbase. That is what troubles me.

RR, one question - do you really, really believe everything you say on a daily basis...? On here?

No comment just doesn't work for someone in her position.

 

[UConn990411]

Jesus.

Herbst doesn't have any tricks (the B1G) up her sleeve like half of you here think. She and Warde tried just as hard as Louisville to get UConn into the ACC the last time around.

At the same time, she isn't really to blame for UConn being in its current position like the other half of you here seem to thing. Past administrations duck*ed up far more than Herbst and co., and UConn is paying the price because of it.

Most likely, UConn will end up in the watered-down version of the ACC like the OP described...which is still a thousand times better than the current s***hole we're in. But I won't be counting any chickens before hatch.