Extrapolating Paige's transition into the WNBA

[eebmg]

Fresh off my live viewing of Sabrina's incredible showing at the Liberty game, there is so much to Paige's game that looks like Sabrina's. Especially, the desire to play at a methodical pace to draw players and then change pace in many creative ways. I do think Sabrina is more advanced than Paige in this feature while Paige is quicker to distribute when swarmed which is a good thing since this causes Sabrina a few TO's a game usually. I also saw Vandersloot in that game and while it may seem that by body type and pass first, she may be closer to Paige, she plays at a much faster pace and can get into trouble under the basket due to that.

I do worry a bit about Paige's transition with her slim build, desire to get her teammates shots before herself which makes her success dependant on her teammates and the coaching staff and playing the way Sabrina does, you would like some more muscle and some hips to push defenders off her but of course she will learn what works for her but I think it will take some time.

On the other hand, I tend to think Caitlyn with her full throttle pace and shoot without conscience mentality will have quicker statistical success although Paige will catchup.

I suppose Sue is another Paige template but I think it is hard to use her as a comparison since she has Stewie on the same team and that alone reshapes the court giving her alot more room.

Thoughts?

 

[JordyG]

On the other hand, I tend to think Caitlyn with her full throttle pace and shoot without conscience mentality will have quicker statistical success although Paige will catchup.

Do be too quick to pull that trigger. Look how Chennedy Carter has torn up the league and almost destroyed a team.

 

[baggerbob]

Fresh off my live viewing of Sabrina's incredible showing at the Liberty game, there is so much to Paige's game that looks like Sabrina's. Especially, the desire to play at a methodical pace to draw players and then change pace in many creative ways. I do think Sabrina is more advanced than Paige in this feature while Paige is quicker to distribute when swarmed which is a good thing since this causes Sabrina a few TO's a game usually. I also saw Vandersloot in that game and while it may seem that by body type and pass first, she may be closer to Paige, she plays at a much faster pace and can get into trouble under the basket due to that.

I do worry a bit about Paige's transition with her slim build, desire to get her teammates shots before herself which makes her success dependant on her teammates and the coaching staff and playing the way Sabrina does, you would like some more muscle and some hips to push defenders off her but of course she will learn what works for her but I think it will take some time.

On the other hand, I tend to think Caitlyn with her full throttle pace and shoot without conscience mentality will have quicker statistical success although Paige will catchup.

I suppose Sue is another Paige template but I think it is hard to use her as a comparison since she has Stewie on the same team and that alone reshapes the court giving her alot more room.

Thoughts?

You forgot to add Jewell to your comment, those 2 know exactly where they need to be for Sue's passes.

 

[jdote33]

I love these topics. I like the comparison, though I've never seen Sabrina play in person. I think Paige is a bit quicker and longer but Sabrina is a bit more physical. I think Paige is a bit better in the mid range and off the ball. If Paige could probe like Sab that would be special. But one interesting thing that came up for Sabrina that I think is very comparable is what position is she best at. It seems having UConn's own Crystal Dangerfield alongside her has really helped, though she's always shown flashes of greatness. Even in college she frequently played with another point guard. Similarly, I find myself wondering the same thing about Paige and if she would be best as an off guard.

Sloot is a GOAT to me. Watching her play recently, and I think this just may be her getting in her veteran bag but she plays pretty physical both on offense and defense. I looked the other day and I think they had her listed at 5'8 137 pds, but she gets to spots so well and then she is pretty gritty on the defensive end. She also just makes insane passes, almost like a Ricky Rubio. I know great guards see the next play, it's almost as if she sees the play after that. I'm not sure PB is quite there yet.

Honestly I keep trying to think of the best comp and it might just be Ionescu.

 

[The deacon]

Do be too quick to pull that trigger. Look how Chennedy Carter has torn up the league and almost destroyed a team.

I'd venture there's a world of difference between Hollywood and Caitlin, JordyG, both in personality and background. The latter is, by all accounts, loved by her Iowa teammates and her coaches, and I believe will make the eventual transition to the WNBA with no problem. Remember she played with many of today's top WCBB players on the US' U-19 team and was MVP, based mostly on her leadership and playmaking. And she has been the top assist player in WCBB for two straight seasons. If her WNBA teammates get open, she'll find them.

Regarding Paige, I'm with everyone who feels her biggest hurdle is her own body type. While every WNBA team would love to utilize her talents, she very well might be a risk about how often she'll actually be on the court. I sure hope that never becomes an issue.

 

[hoophuskee]

Fresh off my live viewing of Sabrina's incredible showing at the Liberty game, there is so much to Paige's game that looks like Sabrina's. Especially, the desire to play at a methodical pace to draw players and then change pace in many creative ways. I do think Sabrina is more advanced than Paige in this feature while Paige is quicker to distribute when swarmed which is a good thing since this causes Sabrina a few TO's a game usually. I also saw Vandersloot in that game and while it may seem that by body type and pass first, she may be closer to Paige, she plays at a much faster pace and can get into trouble under the basket due to that.

I do worry a bit about Paige's transition with her slim build, desire to get her teammates shots before herself which makes her success dependant on her teammates and the coaching staff and playing the way Sabrina does, you would like some more muscle and some hips to push defenders off her but of course she will learn what works for her but I think it will take some time.

On the other hand, I tend to think Caitlyn with her full throttle pace and shoot without conscience mentality will have quicker statistical success although Paige will catchup.

I suppose Sue is another Paige template but I think it is hard to use her as a comparison since she has Stewie on the same team and that alone reshapes the court giving her alot more room.

Thoughts?

I don't entirely agree with your Paige assessment. I do agree that Sabrina is more advanced right now. She's about 4 years older so ofc that should be expected because she is amazing. But--


1--- I don't think "creative" is necessarily better. McCoughtry was "more creative" than Maya. But imo Maya was better.
2--- I'm not sure Paige is going to be as methodical. The UCONN team didn't have enough shooters and/or healthy enough to play at a fast pace.
3a--- And in terms of whether Paige wants to pass more vs Sabrina shooting more thus it's a slight knock on Paige-- if that is the implication then I don’t agree. I say this because you make a comment which seems like you making it a fault of hers vs Sabrina because she wants to be more of a passer. But where has Sabrina’s "less dependency" shown to be a winning formula? Sabrina's team was 12-20 lats year and 5-9 this year. I realize it's not her fault but it won't be Paige's fault either when she is "leading her team" in the early years to 12-20 and 5-9 records because she is more pass than Sabrina.

3b-- As far as Caitlyn vs Paige you mention she will have quicker statistical success. What is "quicker statistical success?" Is it success fi your team is losing? Ofc to some degree it is. But on the flipside there are probably advanced stats showing that going "full throttle" and hoisting up 20+ shots a game isn't the best measure of what "statistical success" is.

When all is said and done - I don’t worry as much about Paige and her wanting to get teammates involved maybe too much. I believe that is a miniscule point once she gets into the WNBA. She'll know early on what she needs to do. Because in a manner of speak unlike Sabrina and unlike Caitlyn; Paige Bueckers has "told" the entire planet that she wants to win -- now. The moment she committed to UCONN - that's a commitment to win now. Going to Oregon at the Sabrina did and Caitlyn going to Iowa tells us at the times they committed that they want to "build" so early on its okay to lose. Paige's entire makeup isn't looking "to build." Day one UCONN is expecting to win. She's not going to sit back and wait to build too much. So Paige won't overdue the passing aspect if she feels her team needs her to score. (Not saying Sabrina and Caitlyn don’t want to win just that Paige isn't going to sit back and wait.).

 

[Shenandoah]

Can we PLEASE just let the kid play two more years of college basketball?

 

[hoophuskee]

Regarding Paige, I'm with everyone who feels her biggest hurdle is her own body type. While every WNBA team would love to utilize her talents, she very well might be a risk about how often she'll actually be on the court. I sure hope that never becomes an issue.

As of right unless she gets hurt in the next two years then I think it will have miniscule impact.

How often did we used to hear with Stewart shouldn't play the 4/5 positions because she was going to get banged up?
How often did we hear how guards were going to "low post" Paige early on?

I suppose a counter is MoJeff. And Tucks' knees. Then again Kia Nurse showed no signs of being hurt and is now out.

 

[hoophuskee]

Can we PLEASE just let the kid play two more years of college basketball?

Who is stopping Paige from playing college basketball?

 

[Scud49]

Can we PLEASE just let the kid play two more years of college basketball?

It's June.
This is the Boneyard, its what we do.
That is all
Carry on.

PS: Oh yes, music threads too.

 

[eebmg]

Can we PLEASE just let the kid play two more years of college basketball?

I promise not to start a Paige WNBA thread during a UConn game,

 

[Skeets]

I promise not to start a Paige WNBA thread during a UConn game,

I really not want to hear "Paige" and "WNBA" mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[Bone Dog]

I don’t think Caitlin and Paige are really comparable. Caitlin’s skills on O and D are certainly comparable. But her drive to win just isn’t.

Also, how many times have we seen her look to the refs to bail her out of a mistake? That’s not Paige’s way.

In the sweet sixteen game two seasons ago, Caitlin had slightly better stats, but Paige won the game. And just try to picture if Iowa had won and faced Baylor next. How would Caitlin have done against them? I think we all know Baylor would have crushed them and Caitlin would have been a non-factor.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Caitlin is a great player and I love watching her play. But she just doesn’t have the heart Paige has.

 

[KingKong139]

I don’t think Caitlin and Paige are really comparable. Caitlin’s skills on O and D are certainly comparable. But her drive to win just isn’t.

Also, how many times have we seen her look to the refs to bail her out of a mistake? That’s not Paige’s way.

In the sweet sixteen game two seasons ago, Caitlin had slightly better stats, but Paige won the game. And just try to picture if Iowa had won and faced Baylor next. How would Caitlin have done against them? I think we all know Baylor would have crushed them and Caitlin would have been a non-factor.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Caitlin is a great player and I love watching her play. But she just doesn’t have the heart Paige has.

Playing the ‘if’ game, if Iowa beat UConn how on earth could you then say “Baylor would have crushed Iowa”? IF Iowa had beaten UConn, then wouldn’t that be evidence to support Iowa was able to play with and beat the top tier of teams?


Also, how can you question Caitlin Clark’s will to win? Do you have any evidence to suggest she goes out there with other priorities?

 

[Alydar]

I'd venture there's a world of difference between Hollywood and Caitlin, JordyG, both in personality and background. The latter is, by all accounts, loved by her Iowa teammates and her coaches, and I believe will make the eventual transition to the WNBA with no problem. Remember she played with many of today's top WCBB players on the US' U-19 team and was MVP, based mostly on her leadership and playmaking. And she has been the top assist player in WCBB for two straight seasons. If her WNBA teammates get open, she'll find them.

Regarding Paige, I'm with everyone who feels her biggest hurdle is her own body type. While every WNBA team would love to utilize her talents, she very well might be a risk about how often she'll actually be on the court. I sure hope that never becomes an issue.

Bueckers is huge standing next to Bird, a player who has had an extended career despite her body. Taurasi didn't have her cut body when she played at CT. Lots of WNBA stars have missed seasons due to injuries of all sorts. It's just part of the deal of being a pro athlete.

 

[socal613ws]

Can we PLEASE just let the kid play two more years of college basketball?

you know she's eligible for the draft April 2023 right?

 

[Bone Dog]

Playing the ‘if’ game, if Iowa beat UConn how on earth could you then say “Baylor would have crushed Iowa”? IF Iowa had beaten UConn, then wouldn’t that be evidence to support Iowa was able to play with and beat the top tier of teams?


Also, how can you question Caitlin Clark’s will to win? Do you have any evidence to suggest she goes out there with other priorities?

First, do you really need me to spell it out for you? If you watched the Iowa games from two seasons ago, you already know how the Baylor game would have turned out.

Second, I never said Caitlin has no will to win. She’s a competitor, no doubt. But we have all the evidence we need as to the difference between their respective will to win. You don’t agree with my interpretation of the evidence. That’s your right.

 

[Alydar]

Iowa plays a very different style from UConn. There are fewer possessions/shots in a UConn game. Iowa doesn't worry about giving up points because they count on scoring more. Clark takes those 30 footers 5 seconds into a possession to speed up the game.

 

[bballnut90]

Fresh off my live viewing of Sabrina's incredible showing at the Liberty game, there is so much to Paige's game that looks like Sabrina's. Especially, the desire to play at a methodical pace to draw players and then change pace in many creative ways. I do think Sabrina is more advanced than Paige in this feature while Paige is quicker to distribute when swarmed which is a good thing since this causes Sabrina a few TO's a game usually. I also saw Vandersloot in that game and while it may seem that by body type and pass first, she may be closer to Paige, she plays at a much faster pace and can get into trouble under the basket due to that.

I do worry a bit about Paige's transition with her slim build, desire to get her teammates shots before herself which makes her success dependant on her teammates and the coaching staff and playing the way Sabrina does, you would like some more muscle and some hips to push defenders off her but of course she will learn what works for her but I think it will take some time.

On the other hand, I tend to think Caitlyn with her full throttle pace and shoot without conscience mentality will have quicker statistical success although Paige will catchup.

I suppose Sue is another Paige template but I think it is hard to use her as a comparison since she has Stewie on the same team and that alone reshapes the court giving her alot more room.

Thoughts?

I think Ionescu is a solid comparison. Agree Bueckers seems a bit more passing oriented, Ionescu has more of a scoring mentality and is a more ball dominant player. She's not afraid to jack up a shot or 2 that might not be the highest percentage look but she can make them and oozes confidence. I think Clark/Ionescu is more apt actually, as both thrive with the offense being catered around them. At UCONN the offense doesn't run through Paige as heavily.

For any concern about Bueckers body type, keep in mind she'll add muscle over the next few years and has great length that can help make up for any lack of strength/muscle. Time will tell but if I'm a GM, I wouldn't hesitate to pick her or be overly concerned about injury risk or longevity.

In regards to Bird, Bueckers is much more of a scorer than Bird is, but they have some striking similarities. Both excel in the midrange and have high basketball IQs. Both are unselfish teammates and great passers. Bueckers is a better scorer and more aggressive hunting her own shot than Sue. Bird is great but in the pros isn't a go to player and needs a standout forward to carry the offensive load to find optimal success. Bueckers I could see being a go to player on a successful team, or I could see her sharing go to duties with someone else. I dont think she'll ever drop to 3rd or 4th option on a team unless she's on a team like Phoenix that's littered with Olympians.