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Ending Thoughts on this season/chapter in women's basketball

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Feel free to agree/disagree with anything below, but I just thought I'd share some of my thoughts on this season/the newest UCONN dynasty.

1. First and foremost, a huge congrats to UCONN for thoroughly dominating another season of women's basketball. Despite a couple of "close" calls earlier in the year, UCONN was far and away the best team all season. There were only 2-3 teams that had a fighting chance to make games competitive, and when they did, they had to play near perfect basketball. Tuck had her ups and downs this year but clearly proved herself as one of the very best players in the nation, Stewart was unreal all season, and Jefferson was steady-eddy in the backcourt and quietly makes a strong claim as one of the best point guards ever and may have been this year's team MVP.

2. I rediscovered that I still cannot stand Doris Burke as an announcer. I hate how openly biased she is when she announces.

3. Where does this UCONN team rank in history? Honestly, I'd put them above 2002 if you're comparing head to head. 2002 had a great roster, but this team's ball movement was as good, if not better, than 2002's, and the frontcourt is taller, more versatile and significantly more athletic. The cohesion/chemistry on the court might not be at the same level as 2002 (if it isn't, it's darn near close), but I think head to head there's no question 2016 would stomp on 2002 UCONN. I do think 2014 would give 2016 a run for their money, but this team had 5 starters, all major 3 point threats and all with 2:1 A/TO ratios. I think there are very few teams ever that have had 5 starts with positive A/TO ratios, let alone all with 2:1 ratios. That's nuts.

4. Where does Stewart rank on the all time greats list? She's definitely up there--I think she's a harder one to evaluate compared to the likes of Taurasi/Moore/Holdsclaw/Parker/Griner/Miller/etc. because she's had by far the best teammates of any of the players who can stake an argument for GOAT. Her resume of 4 titles, 3 NPOY awards, going 116-1 over her last 3 years with all wins by 10+ points, her ridiculous all around stats, etc. give her one heck of an argument. On the flip side, you could make a strong argument that every title team she was on could have won a title without her. All of the others listed had seasons (some with multiple seasons) where if they don't play, their team doesn't win a title. Not something to diminish her achievements, but it's something to think about.

4. The run UCONN has had the last 3+ years could easily be the best run we'll ever see in collegiate women's basketball. The crazy thing is, I don't think any women's college basketball fan is all that surprised. When UCONN beat Notre Dame in 2013, I thought it was signed sealed and delivered that UCONN would roll to 3 straight undefeated seasons with the talent they had on board and their coaching staff. It still is honestly more shocking that Stanford pulled off the insane upset than it is that UCONN went a ridiculous 116-1 over the last 3 years with all victories by 10+. This speaks to the fact of how far ahead of everyone else Geno Auriemma and Connecticut is.

5. In regards to the "UCONN is bad for the women's game" arguments--I completely see both sides of it. On the grander sports scheme, UCONN is great for women's basketball. The average 20 something male who knows nothing about basketball will be well versed about UCONN's dominance, and might even want to tune in to see for himself. UCONN's dominance will definitely bring in new fans and attention to the sport, which is great considering the sport is still relatively young and in a growing stage. For fans who already follow women's basketball? It kills a large piece of excitement that the women's game used to have. For the last 3 years, there was little to no doubt that UCONN was going to walk away with the hardware, the only uncertainty was how dominant the victory would be. Compare the last 8 years to the previous 8:

From 2009-2016, there have been 5 blowout title games (4 by UCONN), 2 somewhat competitive games (both UCONN) where the outcome wasn't ever really in doubt after midway through the 2nd half (2015 and 2010), and 1 competitive title game (2011).

From 2001-2008, there were 3 incredibly exciting championship games ( 2001, 2003, 2006), 2 blowout title games (2005, 2008), and 3 competitive but predictable games (2002, 2004, 2007).

From a non-UCONN fan standpoint, the dominance makes seasons completely predictable and less exciting. Even if there is a great Final Four game (ex. 2009 Louisville/OU, 2015 ND/SC), fans know the winner still has virtually 0 chance of knocking off Connecticut. Compare that to previous years or the men's game where there is more parity and if a program wins a Elite 8 or Final Four game, it's a lot more exciting for the fans of that program because they know they do have some shot of winning a title. If Connecticut is stacked, they have no chance no matter how they scheme.

And this isn't a knock on Geno or the program at all. It's truly a compliment to how successful the program is, but for outside fans the lack of a competitive atmosphere does kill much of the excitement.


7. Looking onto next season, it'll be interesting to see if parity hits the women's game again. UCONN will be significantly less intimidating without Jefferson/Stewart, but they'll still be a heavy title favorite with a loaded roster. Baylor/SC/ND should all be very competitive, and it'll be interesting to see how teams like Syracuse, Oregon State, Stanford and Washington perform next year. Also, most of the kids from last year's transferpalooza will be playing on their new squads which should create a different landscape for some prominent programs. My bet is this will be the most competitive season since 2011 where there were 5-6 really outstanding championship contending teams. My early money would be on the usual suspects--Connecticut, Notre Dame, Baylor, South Carolina and potentially Ohio State.
 
Feel free to agree/disagree with anything below, but I just thought I'd share some of my thoughts on this season/the newest UCONN dynasty.

1. First and foremost, a huge congrats to UCONN for thoroughly dominating another season of women's basketball. Despite a couple of "close" calls earlier in the year, UCONN was far and away the best team all season. There were only 2-3 teams that had a fighting chance to make games competitive, and when they did, they had to play near perfect basketball. Tuck had her ups and downs this year but clearly proved herself as one of the very best players in the nation, Stewart was unreal all season, and Jefferson was steady-eddy in the backcourt and quietly makes a strong claim as one of the best point guards ever and may have been this year's team MVP.

2. I rediscovered that I still cannot stand Doris Burke as an announcer. I hate how openly biased she is when she announces.

3. Where does this UCONN team rank in history? Honestly, I'd put them above 2002 if you're comparing head to head. 2002 had a great roster, but this team's ball movement was as good, if not better, than 2002's, and the frontcourt is taller, more versatile and significantly more athletic. The cohesion/chemistry on the court might not be at the same level as 2002 (if it isn't, it's darn near close), but I think head to head there's no question 2016 would stomp on 2002 UCONN. I do think 2014 would give 2016 a run for their money, but this team had 5 starters, all major 3 point threats and all with 2:1 A/TO ratios. I think there are very few teams ever that have had 5 starts with positive A/TO ratios, let alone all with 2:1 ratios. That's nuts.

4. Where does Stewart rank on the all time greats list? She's definitely up there--I think she's a harder one to evaluate compared to the likes of Taurasi/Moore/Holdsclaw/Parker/Griner/Miller/etc. because she's had by far the best teammates of any of the players who can stake an argument for GOAT. Her resume of 4 titles, 3 NPOY awards, going 116-1 over her last 3 years with all wins by 10+ points, her ridiculous all around stats, etc. give her one heck of an argument. On the flip side, you could make a strong argument that every title team she was on could have won a title without her. All of the others listed had seasons (some with multiple seasons) where if they don't play, their team doesn't win a title. Not something to diminish her achievements, but it's something to think about.

4. The run UCONN has had the last 3+ years could easily be the best run we'll ever see in collegiate women's basketball. The crazy thing is, I don't think any women's college basketball fan is all that surprised. When UCONN beat Notre Dame in 2013, I thought it was signed sealed and delivered that UCONN would roll to 3 straight undefeated seasons with the talent they had on board and their coaching staff. It still is honestly more shocking that Stanford pulled off the insane upset than it is that UCONN went a ridiculous 116-1 over the last 3 years with all victories by 10+. This speaks to the fact of how far ahead of everyone else Geno Auriemma and Connecticut is.

5. In regards to the "UCONN is bad for the women's game" arguments--I completely see both sides of it. On the grander sports scheme, UCONN is great for women's basketball. The average 20 something male who knows nothing about basketball will be well versed about UCONN's dominance, and might even want to tune in to see for himself. UCONN's dominance will definitely bring in new fans and attention to the sport, which is great considering the sport is still relatively young and in a growing stage. For fans who already follow women's basketball? It kills a large piece of excitement that the women's game used to have. For the last 3 years, there was little to no doubt that UCONN was going to walk away with the hardware, the only uncertainty was how dominant the victory would be. Compare the last 8 years to the previous 8:

From 2009-2016, there have been 5 blowout title games (4 by UCONN), 2 somewhat competitive games (both UCONN) where the outcome wasn't ever really in doubt after midway through the 2nd half (2015 and 2010), and 1 competitive title game (2011).

From 2001-2008, there were 3 incredibly exciting championship games ( 2001, 2003, 2006), 2 blowout title games (2005, 2008), and 3 competitive but predictable games (2002, 2004, 2007).

From a non-UCONN fan standpoint, the dominance makes seasons completely predictable and less exciting. Even if there is a great Final Four game (ex. 2009 Louisville/OU, 2015 ND/SC), fans know the winner still has virtually 0 chance of knocking off Connecticut. Compare that to previous years or the men's game where there is more parity and if a program wins a Elite 8 or Final Four game, it's a lot more exciting for the fans of that program because they know they do have some shot of winning a title. If Connecticut is stacked, they have no chance no matter how they scheme.

And this isn't a knock on Geno or the program at all. It's truly a compliment to how successful the program is, but for outside fans the lack of a competitive atmosphere does kill much of the excitement.


7. Looking onto next season, it'll be interesting to see if parity hits the women's game again. UCONN will be significantly less intimidating without Jefferson/Stewart, but they'll still be a heavy title favorite with a loaded roster. Baylor/SC/ND should all be very competitive, and it'll be interesting to see how teams like Syracuse, Oregon State, Stanford and Washington perform next year. Also, most of the kids from last year's transferpalooza will be playing on their new squads which should create a different landscape for some prominent programs. My bet is this will be the most competitive season since 2011 where there were 5-6 really outstanding championship contending teams. My early money would be on the usual suspects--Connecticut, Notre Dame, Baylor, South Carolina and potentially Ohio State.

1-- No way this team would "stomp" 2002. Might be better--- don't know. Need more time to think about the issue. But I saw Texas use their super-soph to guard Stewie and wasn't that bad. Defensively, the sr, Tamika Willliams was superior to that Texas kid. And with Texas and the 2nd half of Syracuse this UCONN team got beat up a bit on the boards. The 2002 team was a beast on the glass. Tamika would give KLS fits on the glass. Then if you use Gabby or Collier, the 2002 team defense can become better by giving more inside help.

2-- I don't think you can make a strong argument for the 4 titles without Stewie.ie First title we don't beat ND without Stewie. Soph year - BOTH the opposing teams Stanford and ND deliberately gave MoJeff wide open looks in part just because of Stewie's presence. SO every possession UCONN is guaranteed an open look in her soph year in part because of Stewie's presence. In her jr year finals there was a play indicative of Stewie's presence when either Mabrey or Cable had a wide open layup and she threw up an airball. Then when she got hurt, they asked Muffett what does her team need to do and she flatly told the reporter during the game to paraphrase, "I think we can go inside more now that the shot blocker is out." And in this game - she is able to defend guards from anywhere - something for example Griner can't or at least didn't in one of the huge NCAA's pressure games I saw. She has an impact on the other team's overall offense. It is hard to measure. I don't know how many domain big can do what Stewie can defensively. SO I'm further questioning your point on "they would have won anyways." They even used her not only to break the press but to attack it.

3-- I never saw Miller or Swoops play in college. I am leaning toward Stewie as GOAT other than them. Too tired to think about it at the moment. But her overall impact because of defense -- she really can guard all 5 positions and can score from anywhere.

4-- I'm leaning toward MoJeff as a greater college pg that Sue Bird. So would she best college pg ever? I didn't see some of the older ones like Staley.

5-- My view of Doris has entirely changed. I'm on the "I love Doris bandwagon" that many have because she stood up to the bully Moron from Mass. I think I understand your point though about her bias as long as it isn't about the Moron from Mass.
 
"4. Where does Stewart rank on the all time greats list? She's definitely up there--I think she's a harder one to evaluate compared to the likes of Taurasi/Moore/Holdsclaw/Parker/Griner/Miller/etc. because she's had by far the best teammates of any of the players who can stake an argument for GOAT. Her resume of 4 titles, 3 NPOY awards, going 116-1 over her last 3 years with all wins by 10+ points, her ridiculous all around stats, etc. give her one heck of an argument. On the flip side, you could make a strong argument that every title team she was on could have won a title without her. All of the others listed had seasons (some with multiple seasons) where if they don't play, their team doesn't win a title. Not something to diminish her achievements, but it's something to think about."

Flipping your flip side, what would Stewart's numbers and career been like had she had to carry teams? Is there any doubt anywhere that she couldn't have shouldered the load and accomplished just as much as any of the others who I keep being told are better? As much as I love the teams style of play I always wondered what the unleashed firepower of Brianna Stewart would have looked like if she felt the need to take over. And now she's going to a pro team that's not going to need her to be the star so I'm going to have to keep on wondering.
 
What National Championship(s) does UConn win without Breanna? Don't tell me Tennessee wasn't loaded when Holdsclaw was there. You need to go back and check your facts. Griner won one championship, and that was with Odyssey Sims and a very strong supporting cast. Maya had Tina, Rene for the first one and other strong supporting players. You need to reevaluate your comments about Breanna and the others.
 
All I'm focusing on was how great the last 4 years have been. Last night when I watched the game (and after) I was so impressed by the spirit of family that surrounds UConn. I literally was moved to tears seeing former players and current players both enjoying the win and the significance of winning 4 in a row. I'm not looking past today. I trust Geno will bring out the best in his players moving forward. You can't recapture the past (2002, etc) you can only celebrate what you have right now. And for me, that's enough.
 
4-- I'm leaning toward MoJeff as a greater college pg that Sue Bird. So would she best college pg ever? I didn't see some of the older ones like Staley.

I recently compared the career numbers for Moriah against all the other UConn All-Americans who put in time at point guard. That list includes Rizzotti, Bird, Taurasi, Montgomery, and Hartley. I knew that Moriah had the most career assists, but I was mildly surprised to learn that she had fewer career turnovers than all the others. Add to that her four NCs and her superior defensive skills, and it is not a stretch at all to say that she should be counted among the all-time UConn Starting Five.
 
5. In regards to the "UCONN is bad for the women's game" arguments--I completely see both sides of it.

I heard commentator Brooke Weisbrod (sp?) explain this quite succinctly: It's not UConn that is bad for WCBB, it's the GAP between UConn and everyone else that is bad for WCBB. Therefore, the solution is to close the gap.
 
5. In regards to the "UCONN is bad for the women's game" arguments--I completely see both sides of it.

I heard commentator Brooke Weisbrod (sp?) explain this quite succinctly: It's not UConn that is bad for WCBB, it's the GAP between UConn and everyone else that is bad for WCBB. Therefore, the solution is to close the gap.

It's the dumbest argument ever. You might as well say that everyone else is bad for women's BB by not being at our level. Unless I am forgetting someone, only four teams beat or were competitive against us during the run- Stanford, ND, DePaul, and South Carolina. Other teams might have been but were not willing to play us. That is not our fault.

Next year there will be more parity among the teams, and several -Baylor, Texas, ND, and South Carolina- all have a solid chance of beating us, much more than they would have had the last couple years.
 
1. Well said!

2. The problem is she doesn't speak or 'announce', she 'makes pronouncements' as if every statement came down from mount Sinai graven in stone. If she would just talk, she has some interesting things to say - but none of it is that important nor does it stand up to the significance she places on it.

3. So hard to do those one year vs another year over 10+ years - the game has evolved so much. I this this team compares to the Tina/Maya and the 2002 teams and am content to leave it at that.

4. With the proviso that I didn't see the early greats, but from 1995 on she is #1 - don't care what team she had around her, or what teams others had around them. She is the best. And the what Taurasi did - well replace Taurasi with Moore or Stewart and you would be favored to win a title in both years like Taurasi did. And no - Uconn doesn't win the last four titles without Stewart - maybe one, but not 4 and I am not sure they win all four if you replace Stewart with Taurasi or Moore.

4. Yup - question still remains - how did Stanford beat them! :eek::cool:

5. Nope - just a BS sentiment by ignorant folks. If they are undefeated next year, that will be bad for basketball, because they will not be the most talented team.

7. Disagree - I don't think even if Morgan returns they will be the favorite for a title - I expect them to lose some of the OOC games which will drop them out of first place I think. Not saying they will not win an NC, but other teams will have better odds at the start of the NCAA
 
Stewart is UCONN's GOAT.
MoJeff is UCONN's greatest pg.

This team vs 01-02 -- still undecided. Pick 'em. The 01-02 would cause damage on the offensive glass.
 
What National Championship(s) does UConn win without Breanna? Don't tell me Tennessee wasn't loaded when Holdsclaw was there. You need to go back and check your facts. Griner won one championship, and that was with Odyssey Sims and a very strong supporting cast. Maya had Tina, Rene for the first one and other strong supporting players. You need to reevaluate your comments about Breanna and the others.

It's a toss up against Notre Dame in 2013 if Stewart doesn't play. She was HUGE that game and was the difference why the game was so lopsided compared to the first 3. The other major difference between the previous 3 meetings and that matchup was the perimeter defense of Connecticut. McBride and Diggins had horrible games which was a direct effect of UCONN's defensive pressure. UCONN had a darn good team that year without Stewart. She was a complete nonfactor against Baylor when they had Griner as a senior and they went toe to toe with them. They also nearly beat Notre Dame two other times when Stewart had mediocre performances. Without Breanna, it's not a blowout like it ended up being, but I think UCONN would've had a great chance to pull out a win.

2014, no question they win that title without Stewart IMO. Dolson the best center, Hartley and Jefferson made up the best backcourt in the nation, KML had a down year but was still pretty darn good. They had no depth that year, so Stokes comes in and plays for Stewart which is a major downgrade offensively, but she was an amazing post presence defensively and one of the best rebounders in WCBB. The offense wouldn't be as dynamic, and Notre Dame could give them a challenge, but I still think it's very likely UCONN wins the title.

2015, they're still the most talented team in the nation with Tuck/KML/Jefferson. All of those players would carry heavier loads, and Stokes slides in for Stewart. Again, not nearly as dominant and playing Notre Dame could have been a dog fight since Stewart made a huge impact on the defensive end, but UCONN is still the heavy title favorite.

2016, Stewart was simply amazing. Her last year was one of the most dominant performances by a player ever, but I honestly think UCONN easily rolls to a title again. If they faced the same path to the title, I still think UCONN beats everyone by 15-20 points. Notre Dame and Maryland are the only difficult matchups, but I think you'd see players like Tuck, KLS, Nurse and Jefferson take a lot more shots in Stewart's absence.

It's all hypothetical, but UCONN is a team that been lightyears ahead of anyone in college basketball the last 3 seasons, and I think even without Stewart they would have still been in front of the pack even if the gap wasn't as great.
 
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