Duke looking for more 1st place votes?

[doggydaddy]

I understand scoring 60 points in the first half.

But to score 40 in the first 11 minutes of the second half is just disgusting.

Sorry Triad.

 

[UcMiami]

Unless you really slow it down and use all of a shot clock it can sometimes be difficult to stop - especial as it appears USCUS didn't have anyone who could box out on the defensive end - Duke missed 35 shots in total but they also had 24 offensive rebounds! And most coaches do like to come out of a halftime as if it were a competitive game. But I do agree - that seems a tad excessive. The bench did play 80 minutes.
Just curious - looking at minutes Haley Peters played 30 minutes as a starter which sort of stands out - is she coming off an injury or something that she needed the work?

 

[doggydaddy]

Unless you really slow it down and use all of a shot clock it can sometimes be difficult to stop - especial as it appears USCUS didn't have anyone who could box out on the defensive end - Duke missed 35 shots in total but they also had 24 offensive rebounds! And most coaches do like to come out of a halftime as if it were a competitive game. But I do agree - that seems a tad excessive. The bench did play 80 minutes.
Just curious - looking at minutes Haley Peters played 30 minutes as a starter which sort of stands out - is she coming off an injury or something that she needed the work?

A quick look at the last 10 minutes Duke did not run much time off each possesion. Here is the tie after a defensive rebound or made shot.

11,13,5,20,16,10,5,16,8,10,10,18,3,12,15,8,13,10

It's not difficult to have them take 3-4 more minutes off the clock by not shooting until they have taken 20 seconds off the clock.

 

[triaddukefan]

I was trying to find the list of who all votes in the AP....perhaps Coach P was trying to gain a vote from one of the South Carolina voters.... if they even have one down there.

 

[Alm]

How much more "disgusting" is it than when UConn put up 35 pts in the first 11 minutes of the second half in a 101-41 bolwout of Colgate last season? With 7:58 left in the game and UConn up by 50 pts, Colgate missed a shot, 9 seconds later, MoJeff attempted at 3 ptr. Basket by Colgate at 7:39 - 18 seconds later, missed attempt by Buck. 6:47 block by Buck and rebound Jefferson - 13 secs later, layup by Jefferson. 5:58 block by Stewart, rebound Buck - 18 secs later, 3 pt attempt by Tuck. 5:31 TO by Colgate, 16 secs later, missed 3 ptr by Hartley. Rebound Uconn - 9 secs later 3 ptr by Tuck. 4:52 Colgate miss - 14 secs later, UConn misses layup. Rebound Uconn - 10 secs later made 3 ptr by Hartley... Clearly UConn runs the clock out and quits trying when they're blowing out the other team.

 

[triaddukefan]

How much more "disgusting" is it than when UConn put up 35 pts in the first 11 minutes of the second half in a 101-41 bolwout of Colgate in tournament last season? With 7:58 left in the game and UConn up by 50 pts, Colgate missed a shot, 9 seconds later, MoJeff attempted at 3 ptr. Basket by Colgate at 7:39 - 18 seconds later, missed attempt by Buck. 6:47 block by Buck and rebound Jefferson - 13 secs later, layup by Jefferson. 5:58 block by Stewart, rebound Buck - 18 secs later, 3 pt attempt by Tuck. 5:31 TO by Colgate, 16 secs later, missed 3 ptr by Hartley. Rebound Uconn - 9 secs later 3 ptr by Tuck. 4:52 Colgate miss - 14 secs later, UConn misses layup. Rebound Uconn - 10 secs later made 3 ptr by Hartley... Clearly UConn runs the clock out and quits trying when they're blowing out the other team.

Uh oh.... and here we go.

 

[doggydaddy]

How much more "disgusting" is it than when UConn put up 35 pts in the first 11 minutes of the second half in a 101-41 bolwout of Colgate in tournament last season? With 7:58 left in the game and UConn up by 50 pts, Colgate missed a shot, 9 seconds later, MoJeff attempted at 3 ptr. Basket by Colgate at 7:39 - 18 seconds later, missed attempt by Buck. 6:47 block by Buck and rebound Jefferson - 13 secs later, layup by Jefferson. 5:58 block by Stewart, rebound Buck - 18 secs later, 3 pt attempt by Tuck. 5:31 TO by Colgate, 16 secs later, missed 3 ptr by Hartley. Rebound Uconn - 9 secs later 3 ptr by Tuck. 4:52 Colgate miss - 14 secs later, UConn misses layup. Rebound Uconn - 10 secs later made 3 ptr by Hartley... Clearly UConn runs the clock out and quits trying when they're blowing out the other team.

It's 5 more points disgusting.

9,18,13,18,16,8,14,10.

But if you look closer, the 8 second possession and the 10 second possession shot were after offensive rebounds. I didn't even list the several offensive rebounds where Duke shot within 5 seconds.

The final possessions?

19,17,15,22,17.

So, including the plays you mentioned, UConn's final 13 possessions averaged 15 second each.

Dukes final 13 possessions averaged 10 seconds each.

I will admit that using the word "disgusting" was over the top and I apologize for that. But Geno almost always takes the foot off the gas the last 10 minutes.

 

[Alm]

So where is the line between 35 and 40 where it's ok? 38? 37?

Listen, I look at the blowouts UConn wins and sometimes see criticism (why was Hartley in with 4 mins to go in that Colgate game?, for example), but I'm not there and I don't know all the variables. My assumption is that Geno had a reason to have her in there. I think it's too easy too look at a box score and make assumptions that simply aren't true.

I was at the Duke game (yes, I'm a Duke fan who reads your board for the information and insight I cannot get elsewhwere) and USC-Upstate was gunning it up from 3, long rebounds to Duke in the open floor. Duke would have had to stop in the wide open court and wait, and wait, for USC-U to get back on defense. I think that would've been an embarassment to USC-U. Also, we shot a very high percentage from the floor in the second half. If in the scenario above (your Colgate game), those missed 3 pt attempts were makes, UConn would have scored many more than 40 in the first 11 minutes. Which in my book would've been just fine. It's not little league.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

My point - I've said it for years - there ain't no reward for how many points you score or how much you win by. It don't earn you any brownie points either.

You play however you play. To develop team chemistry you might leave a starter in or bring them back to work with the "b" team. I didn't see the Duke box and it wouldn't mean anything to me - but - did the "b" team players get significant time? If so, it is what it is.

USC-U knew what was going to happen to them, in any case.

 

[AndyCT]

How much more "disgusting" is it than when UConn put up 35 pts in the first 11 minutes of the second half in a 101-41 bolwout of Colgate in tournament last season? With 7:58 left in the game and UConn up by 50 pts, Colgate missed a shot, 9 seconds later, MoJeff attempted at 3 ptr. Basket by Colgate at 7:39 - 18 seconds later, missed attempt by Buck. 6:47 block by Buck and rebound Jefferson - 13 secs later, layup by Jefferson. 5:58 block by Stewart, rebound Buck - 18 secs later, 3 pt attempt by Tuck. 5:31 TO by Colgate, 16 secs later, missed 3 ptr by Hartley. Rebound Uconn - 9 secs later 3 ptr by Tuck. 4:52 Colgate miss - 14 secs later, UConn misses layup. Rebound Uconn - 10 secs later made 3 ptr by Hartley... Clearly UConn runs the clock out and quits trying when they're blowing out the other team.

(Apologies in advance, Triad)

Those players you named - Moriah and Morgan were bench players last year. Bria started because Kaleena was out for that game, and only scored eight points.

Heather Buck was the entire third string.

Breanna Stewart was a freshman. She needed minutes – she was (and still is) learning the college game.

The high scorer was Brianna Banks off the bench.

So else was UConn going to play?

As it was, the UConn starters had 61 pts in 107 minutes (average 21 ½ minutes each) against Colgate, while Duke’s starters poured in 82 points in 122 minutes (average 24 ½ minutes each). Both benches scored about 40 points but UConn’s shorter bench (5 players) did that over 94 minutes while Duke’s longer bench (7 players) had just 82 minutes. Duke’s starters doubled their bench’s output (82:41) while the UConn bench points were equal to 2/3 of the starters’ points (61:40).

For UConn this was the game before playing Maryland; the starters needed to get minutes. I’m not sure that in going up against 0-2 Alabama next the Duke’s starters needed to get all those minutes as badly.

UConn usually calls off the fast break and the press, and sometimes even 3 point shots when they are rolling over a lesser opponent. But in the all-or-nothing world of the one and done tournament, each game is preparation for the next - you can't call off the dogs. While it is important not to run up the score more than the game naturally allows it is also disrespectful to your opponent to not play the game.

 

[UcMiami]

I have no problem and to answer knight bridge - the bench played about 80 minutes total so say the last 10 minutes plus another 30 player minutes distributed through the game. The starters were all in the 20-24 minutes range except Peters which why I asked if she was in a special situation (recovery from an injury or something where she need some 'seasoning')
If the bench plays some up-tempo in a blow out I think that is fine - they are trying to earn more playing time, show the coaches what they can do, and enjoy their time on the floor. I actually think Geno sort of sabotaged the bench in the Hartford game to keep them from scoring by putting the four guard line-up out there - but that was because it was Jen - in other blow-outs this year (not against Cinci or Temple) I think he wouldn't pull the plug quite so much and the team would score more than the 10 or so points it did in the last ten minutes.

 

[Icebear]

The line is drawn outside those better restaurants where Duke waiters work. They are excellent but slow and the line backs up.

 

[meyers7]

USC-Upstate was gunning it up from 3, long rebounds to Duke in the open floor. Duke would have had to stop in the wide open court and wait, and wait, for USC-U to get back on defense.

Actually UCONN does do that. It pulls up on long rebounds and waits for the defense to set and then runs it's offense. They can break and score pretty much anytime they want, nothing to learn or practice from that. However, running their offense against a set defense is more of a challenge, especially for the 2nd string. But that's just the way UCONN normally rolls. I personally don't have a problem with Duke scoring that much. It's their perogative. They can work on or not work on whatever they want.

 

[doggydaddy]

Actually UCONN does do that. It pulls up on long rebounds and waits for the defense to set and then runs it's offense. They can break and score pretty much anytime they want, nothing to learn or practice from that. However, running their offense against a set defense is more of a challenge, especially for the 2nd string. But that's just the way UCONN normally rolls. I personally don't have a problem with Duke scoring that much. It's their perogative. They can work on or not work on whatever they want.

Exactly. Yes, they pull up and wait.

Duke chooses not to. They can do what they want. And I can point it out.

They made a statement. Good for them.

 

[Paul1969]

I could care less what Duke does as long as they lose on Dec. 17th and Don't win the NC

 

[johnnyc]

I was at the Duke game (yes, I'm a Duke fan who reads your board for the information and insight I cannot get elsewhwere)

Welcome to the forum Alm.

 

[cabbie191]

So where is the line between 35 and 40 where it's ok? 38? 37?

Listen, I look at the blowouts UConn wins and sometimes see criticism (why was Hartley in with 4 mins to go in that Colgate game?, for example), but I'm not there and I don't know all the variables. My assumption is that Geno had a reason to have her in there. I think it's too easy too look at a box score and make assumptions that simply aren't true.

I was at the Duke game (yes, I'm a Duke fan who reads your board for the information and insight I cannot get elsewhwere) and USC-Upstate was gunning it up from 3, long rebounds to Duke in the open floor. Duke would have had to stop in the wide open court and wait, and wait, for USC-U to get back on defense. I think that would've been an embarassment to USC-U. Also, we shot a very high percentage from the floor in the second half. If in the scenario above (your Colgate game), those missed 3 pt attempts were makes, UConn would have scored many more than 40 in the first 11 minutes. Which in my book would've been just fine. It's not little league.

Thanks for the insight - as has been pointed out, box scores provide useful information but lack context. Having your observations is useful to me. Thanks.

As to UConn and games against lesser opponents: We all know that very often the Huskies score north of 50 points in the first half, yet don't come close to 100 for the game. This happens so consistently that I have to believe this reflects Geno's intention to not run up the score.

IMO, when you have a top notch school playing a far lesser team, there is no absolute right or easy way to manage the game. The bench players need the time and have every right to show the coaching staff what they are capable of. Often, there are good reasons to keep a starter in long after the outcome is settled. And slowing down the game in too obvious a way can be equally or more embarrassing to the other side then keeping the game going at its normal pace.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Exactly. Yes, they pull up and wait.

Duke chooses not to. They can do what they want. And I can point it out.

They made a statement. Good for them.

If it had been Notre Dame beating up on USC-U, I would have wanted Muffet to play the bench more, but maybe coach P was trying some new things. You always want stuff to talk about/point out in the film room and in practice. Maybe coach P didn't want her bench to just work on their half-court sets because she wants those players to play the way they would play when they entered into a competitive game (push, push, push). They have a DEEP bench, so minutes bench minutes are shared extensively. Thus you want higher quality minutes for those players starting games on the bench.

And there is way in hell that Duke believed they were making a statement to pick up votes. No matter the margin of victory, there is no way to impress voters by destroying a very weak team. Besides, the only way Duke can get past UConn is for UConn to lose a game, an the best way for that to happen is to beat them in December.

Finally, there is no need to be ranked #1. The entire season is about getting better and getting a 1-seed, and there are 4 of them, not just one.

I hope your medical procedure went well.

 

[doggydaddy]

If it had been Notre Dame beating up on USC-U, I would have wanted Muffet to play the bench more, but maybe coach P was trying some new things. You always want stuff to talk about/point out in the film room and in practice. Maybe coach P didn't want her bench to just work on their half-court sets because she wants those players to play the way they would play when they entered into a competitive game (push, push, push). They have a DEEP bench, so minutes bench minutes are shared extensively. Thus you want higher quality minutes for those players starting games on the bench.

And there is way in hell that Duke believed they were making a statement to pick up votes. No matter the margin of victory, there is no way to impress voters by destroying a very weak team. Besides, the only way Duke can get past UConn is for UConn to lose a game, an the best way for that to happen is to beat them in December.

Finally, there is no need to be ranked #1. The entire season is about getting better and getting a 1-seed, and there are 4 of them, not just one.

I hope your medical procedure went well.

I was being sarcastic about the vote. Of course they didn't run up the score for that reason...lol.

I do think that they made a conscious decision to keep running. You mention quality minutes for the bench. I would think that would be better served in the half court offense, learning to execute plays. Fast breaking after long rebounds on missed 3 pointers (as the visiting Duke fan reprimanded me on) doesn't seem to be a way to learn anything. They might as well just run wind sprints.

Thanks for asking. It went ok. I'll live...!!!

 

[Alydar]

Nothing wrong with scoring. But I read on the Duke board (I didn't see the game) that the Devils pressed the entire game. I would think the subs needed work on half court defense too?

 

[HoopsFan21]

Good lord. As if UConn hasn't blown out an opponent before. There have been plenty of games where UConn scores 100+. Come on guys, we've seen UConn up by 40-50 points at the half on some hapless school. You don't build and maintain that kind of margin by "letting off the gas." Besides, this isn't college football, so there are no style points in WCBB. Duke can get all the first place votes they want if they can beat UConn, which this year they have a decent shot at doing if Mosqueda-Lewis and Tuck are still out.

 

[Icebear]

Good lord. As if UConn hasn't blown out an opponent before. There have been plenty of games where UConn scores 100+. Come on guys, we've seen UConn up by 40-50 points at the half on some hapless school. You don't build and maintain that kind of margin by "letting off the gas." Besides, this isn't college football, so there are no style points in WCBB. Duke can get all the first place votes they want if they can beat UConn, which this year they have a decent shot at doing if Mosqueda-Lewis and Tuck are still out.

I think you need to recheck your memory. UCONN almost always does everything they can to hold down scores. Sometimes it just can't be done.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I think you need to recheck your memory. UCONN almost always does everything they can to hold down scores. Sometimes it just can't be done.

UConn has done it. The 2009 game against Syracuse is one obvious example. There was no need to have Maya Moore in the game until less than five minutes left and still chucking up 3's in the second half when they were up 30, 40 points. Your idea of working on the half court set is another's running up the score.

 

[doggydaddy]

UConn has done it. The 2009 game against Syracuse is one obvious example. There was no need to have Maya Moore in the game until less than five minutes left and still chucking up 3's in the second half when they were up 30, 40 points. Your idea of working on the half court set is another's running up the score.

That game was one of the exceptions. There was bad blood and Geno let them vent.

I

 

[Icebear]

UConn has done it. The 2009 game against Syracuse is one obvious example. There was no need to have Maya Moore in the game until less than five minutes left and still chucking up 3's in the second half when they were up 30, 40 points. Your idea of working on the half court set is another's running up the score.

Yeah, as I said check your memory. There was a reason that happened in that game and it had to do with Syracuse's behavior. It was a message being sent.