OT: - Ductless Air Conditioners | The Boneyard

OT: Ductless Air Conditioners

tykurez

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Need recommendations. In north eastern Fairfield county. House is too old to do central (I’m on steam for heat) and I don’t want to go another summer with windows units.

I got quoted just south of $18k last year for a 5 unit system in a 3BR, 3 level house.

I could potentially do a ducted system for the bottom floor and ductless for the top two floors, but I doubt that makes sense since it’s the top floors that get the warmest and need the most # of units.

I’m wondering if I buy the units and get someone to do the work if that will help save on costs, but I’m under the impression the labor/permiiting/etc. is the driver for that.

Anyone have recent experience?
 
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Need recommendations. In north eastern Fairfield county. House is too old to do central (I’m on steam for heat) and I don’t want to go another summer with windows units.

I got quoted just south of $18k last year for a 5 unit system in a 3BR, 3 level house.

I could potentially do a ducted system for the bottom floor and ductless for the top two floors, but I doubt that makes sense since it’s the top floors that get the warmest and need the most # of units.

I’m wondering if I buy the units and get someone to do the work if that will help save on costs, but I’m under the impression the labor/permiiting/etc. is the driver for that.

Anyone have recent experience?
We had a traditional central air duct system put in our 70 year old West Hartford house last summer and it cost significantly less than your estimate. Our house is a two story 3 bedroom 1865 sq ft cape and has old radiators for heat. Not sure how many square feet you have. My wife refused to even entertain the ductless system in our house because of how the units look on the wall. My advice is to get a bunch of contractors out and give you their assessment and estimates. We had many different opinions and prices about how to install, what equipment use, etc. Typically, it is easier to put the ducts upstairs as you can put the handler in the attic - assuming you have an attic. Getting the ducts downstairs gets difficult as you have to run them through closets. Or you can put another handler in the basement. In order to minimize the closet impact, we chose to just have more vents upstairs as the upstairs is what gets hot in the summer as you mentioned. And with last summer's heat, we gave our system a good workout and the downstairs was always cool enough even with less vents. YMMV
 
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ClifSpliffy

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tis the season, as in, time for every retailer to hawk the ubiquitous 5000 btu/ $120 window unit. I find that its not heat so much as humidity that makes folks bonkers, and I realize your disinterest in window units, but you also seem interested in the cash part. the temp scale on those usually run from 1-10, with high/low fan speeds. one of those for every 600-800 sqft of living space, set at around 3 with low fan speed, will level out (comfortable) your place in a reasonable time becuz of the dehumidification thing. and cost next to nothing (note; 2 5000s do not equal 1 10,000--different animals on many levels). it always cracks me up to see a space serviced by heat vents in the ceiling, or a/c venting in or around the floor-physics and all that. anybody giving you a plan with that should be chased away with a stick. im assuming you have at least one ceiling fan (THE temp mixmaster, comfort king, health helper, and cash saver). so there you have it. 100s of dollars for modern, slim, and reliable window units, up your ceiling fan game, and spend your many 1000s on Microsoft stock. heck, the stock part might even buy you a new house in 10-15 years, so there's that. lol. and if that hot 3rd floor (physics again) has no ceiling fan, you're doing it wrong. stay dry. signed 'a yankee.'
 

tykurez

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@Marbles90 we finished off our attic last year so that’s why ducted central is mostly out of the question. House was also built in 1849 so there’s very limited closet space throughout to run ducts. Believe me, I wish we could go that route.

How much did you end up spending, if you don’t mind me asking? I feel like $17k is a lot, but from what I’ve read ... for 5 units, it might not be. The first company I had out was actually around $20k.
 
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How much did you end up spending, if you don’t mind me asking? I feel like $17k is a lot, but from what I’ve read ... for 5 units, it might not be. The first company I had out was actually around $20k.
$11K. We had estimates as low as $10K and as high as $19K and everywhere in between. The company we went with was associated with my oil company which gave me extra negotiating power as a loyal customer. I was also able to get them to throw in a few things like a credit on this year’s oil service contract, a WiFi thermostat and one year to pay off the $11K with no interest.
 
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Good topic. I dodged it this year when the kids put all the window units in for us in late April. Was prepared to speak with the guy for ductless. Been researching for a year or more. Seems like installation is the killer.
Daughter near Boston had a 3rd floor unit in their 120yo house for about $7k. Don’t know if the base unit can handle more.
 

8893

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Need recommendations. In north eastern Fairfield county. House is too old to do central (I’m on steam for heat) and I don’t want to go another summer with windows units.

I got quoted just south of $18k last year for a 5 unit system in a 3BR, 3 level house.

I could potentially do a ducted system for the bottom floor and ductless for the top two floors, but I doubt that makes sense since it’s the top floors that get the warmest and need the most # of units.

I’m wondering if I buy the units and get someone to do the work if that will help save on costs, but I’m under the impression the labor/permiiting/etc. is the driver for that.

Anyone have recent experience?
I had one unit put in the addition we built around seven years ago because we have central a/c upstairs only and nothing downstairs, and the air flow was not making it out to that room. I want to say I was shooting for $5k, the estimate from our fuel/ac company who sold and installed the unit was like $7.5k and it ended up at around $8k and change all in. Still one of the best purchases ever because of the heatwaves we've experienced since. I was told that the biggest cost driver is the electrical work and mine was more expensive than estimated because of the distance from the unit to our electrical panel. More distance means they have to use higher quality wiring, and a lot of it, which means more money. I am guessing that the third level kills you there.
 
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I had one unit put in the addition we built around seven years ago because we have central a/c upstairs only and nothing downstairs, and the air flow was not making it out to that room. I want to say I was shooting for $5k, the estimate from our fuel/ac company who sold and installed the unit was like $7.5k and it ended up at around $8k and change all in. Still one of the best purchases ever because of the heatwaves we've experienced since. I was told that the biggest cost driver is the electrical work and mine was more expensive than estimated because of the distance from the unit to our electrical panel. More distance means they have to use higher quality wiring, and a lot of it, which means more money. I am guessing that the third level kills you there.
Yeah, would have had to upgrade my electrical for sure.
 
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Mini Splits are dirt cheap and easy to install. No price in HVAC is firm. 18k is insane.
Make sure you get a heat load calculation.
 
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Just curious but why 5 units? Two for the first and second floors and one for the finished attic? Depending on the size of the house you might be fine with 3 total.
 
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10 years sgo had attic unit put in with ceiling vents into bedrooms. Put 2 mini splits on 1st floor. 2000 sq ft home. Cost 8k - worth every penny. They also cut down on okl costs as I used yhrm.for heat as long as above 40° outside, my oil guy told me cheaper than oil at those temps
 
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I'm not a fan of the window units either, but...have 5 of them in a 2000 sq ft two story with 3 bedrooms. One in each BR, and one in each LR. It sucks (big time) for two days a year - the day you put 'em in and the day you take 'em out. They do the job just fine and I work from home so comfort is a must. Every couple years or so, will swap one out for a smaller, more effective and efficient unit...
 
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BTW, if anyone is interested in window A/C’s we have 3 that are free to anyone who wants to take them. :)
 
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If you want central air, you might try a high velocity system...uses small ducts that take up much less space...and can fit between joists...I don't have any personal experience with it...just an fyi
 
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Just curious but why 5 units? Two for the first and second floors and one for the finished attic? Depending on the size of the house you might be fine with 3 total.
Depends on the size of the units. Multiple are usually 9kBTU, which is good for maybe 15x20 tops. When I was researching I felt I needed 6 units, maybe 7. Just the way the house layout goes.
 
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Depends on the size of the units. Multiple are usually 9kBTU, which is good for maybe 15x20 tops. When I was researching I felt I needed 6 units, maybe 7. Just the way the house layout goes.

I’m definitely not anything close to an expert but my parents bought one for the first floor and one for the second. Their house is probably 1900 square foot plus and it works really well. Much better than my garbage window units. Their floors are pretty open so I’m sure that helps. I wouldn’t do it myself since I have forced air already, I just haven’t pulled the trigger on central air.
 
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I’m definitely not anything close to an expert but my parents bought one for the first floor and one for the second. Their house is probably 1900 square foot plus and it works really well. Much better than my garbage window units. Their floors are pretty open so I’m sure that helps. I wouldn’t do it myself since I have forced air already, I just haven’t pulled the trigger on central air.
Open floors make a huge difference. I have 3 bedrooms upstairs, living room, and what was a dining room when we moved in almost 20 years ago, and has been an overflow living room/ computer room, plus a kitchen that is about 12x30. Then there is the room we framed up in the basement where my son stayed for years. Everyone is out now, so it really doesn’t seem to be worth it.
 
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Last years heat did my wife in. Have a cape, bedrooms upstairs. We had a 5 unit mini split heat pump system put in this spring. Will give heat down to 4 degrees. We put a unit in each bedroom upstairs (3), and 2 downstairs in common rooms. Went with the units in each bedroom for resale value if we sell in 10 years as some people close their doors at night. Since we have electric heat it should help quite a bit on that bill. $11,000
 
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It's threads like this that put a smile on my face. A lot of smart boneyarders. Need to pin these types
 
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If you want central air, you might try a high velocity system...uses small ducts that take up much less space...and can fit between joists...I don't have any personal experience with it...just an fyi
We looked into these and decided against them. There are many drawbacks from our research. First it cost about twice as much. Second there are not a lot of installers out there so difficult to get bids. Due to the high velocity, the systems are more prone to breaking down and difficult to service due to the lack of expertise. And finally, it is difficult to get it set up just right to get the cooling at the right temp. This is all based on research. I do not know anyone who has this system (which tells you something right there). Of course, I was out as soon as I heard “twice as expensive”...
 

Dream Jobbed 2.0

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I have central air in an 80 year old house (brand new furnace/ac unit when we moved in three years ago though) and it barely blows upstairs in our tiny 1100 sq ft cape.
 
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If you are looking at Mitsubishi I can give you an idea of dealer pricing if you provide model numbers. Labor is a killer for sure but it's really just drilling holes for the lineset. The profit margin is crazy on mini splits. You might need a new panel.
 

tykurez

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Just curious but why 5 units? Two for the first and second floors and one for the finished attic? Depending on the size of the house you might be fine with 3 total.

We have 3 bedrooms, a finished attic that is used for a home office, and the our living/kitchen area downstairs.

If you are looking at Mitsubishi I can give you an idea of dealer pricing if you provide model numbers. Labor is a killer for sure but it's really just drilling holes for the lineset. The profit margin is crazy on mini splits. You might need a new panel.

I got quoted on LGs. Not even sure what the good brands are or if they’re all the same. The good news is we have a 200A panel with plenty of space.
 
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We have a 3600sf house with 1800 on each level. Downstairs all open, upstairs 5 BR.
We installed a 36,000 BTU Chinese unit (Friederich) on the downstairs wall.
Ridiculously efficient, quiet, works well even when it's close to 32F outside. We use it in the shoulder months - Oct-Dec. and March-now.
VERY IMPORTANT - to remove all doubt about sizing, get an inverter/variable speed compressor unit and you can err on the side of too-big with no worries. Our unit, for example, is rated for 36,000 BTU (maybe a bit less), but will function down to about 10,000 BTU if there is a light load. That means that we had zero worry about over-sizing the unit, which oversize, during cooling, can cause short-cycling and a failure to de-humidify in one-speed compressor systems.
The unit automatically adjusts compressor speed and output fan speed to keep the room perfectly dehumidified and at whatever temp we set. Remarkable, really.
We don't use any separate system upstairs - it's somewhat cooler/hotter, but tolerably so.

In your situation, a minisplit in each room upstairs probably makes the most sense.

Regarding price, I got mine from a friend who works for an HVAC company - he got it for me at his cost, which was 1950, including a 50' lineset. I spent about 300 bucks on other parts, including outdoor pad and hardware to hang/run lines.
I installed it myself, which included hanging the evaporator unit on the wall, drilling a large hole in the floor (ran the lines inside the house and garage) and outside sill, leveling a spot on the ground for the compressor pad, running a 14g electrical line next to vac. lines to connect evap to compressor, and running a short line from panel to compressor (usually you'd use a disconnect box on outside wall). That all took about 4-6 hours.
I brought in a different HVAC friend who, for 150 bucks, connected the lines I had run to the compressor and the evap, and vacuumed the system to remove trapped moisture and check for leaks.

18 k sounds like a lot to me for what you're getting - Ithey really are very simple to install - particularly if you're blowing a hole in the outside wall and running the vac/14g lines down the side of the house. But that depends on where you live, and so on. In CT, when we lived in Simsbury, everything was marked up 30% as soon as the contractor crossed the town line. Ridiculous, but that's what it is.

EDIT - Be cautious about getting units with built-in resistance heating that kick on at low temps. That is equivalent to baseboard electric, which is very inefficient. If you plan to use them for your only source of heat in winter, then you need to look closely at cold weather performance of the unit at which you are looking.
 
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I got quoted on LGs. Not even sure what the good brands are or if they’re all the same.
Crazy pondering: To potentially avoid investing in equipment, capabilities, product brand you really don’t need, may not meet or may exceed reasonable requirements, buying a brand which isn’t medium to better quality, etc, have you considered expending some effort with a more reliable resource than our crew? Whatever you end up buying consider quality differences between big box store models and better quality commercial models unless you don’t plan to stay in the house too long. Good luck
 

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