Does Star Player = Great Coach?

[DefenseBB]

When looking at the MSU schedule, which currently has more dogs in it then a animal shelter, I did see Virginia on it (they lost 72-44) and Tina Thompson is the new coach.
Tina was a star player and we have seen this play a few times before and I am scratching my head trying to think of a "star" player who became a great coach.
Here's my list of Star player/Coach that I have ranked BEST to Least successful by categories I created (trying to inject some humor as well). I know I am missing some so please add names and comments.

Team.............Coach..............Rating 1-10.....Comments...records start of '18-19 season
The "Great Coach" Category
Baylor has Kim Mulkey... rating 9 w/2 titles and 539-98 yet we ask why hasn't she done more???
SC has Dawn Staley... rating 8...needs more titles to move up...422-167

The "Pretty Good" Category
Not seeing any that come to mind

The "Need to do more" category
Tennessee has Holly Warlick rating-6, she can recruit but that's about it. ..153-54
GW has Jen Rizzotti rating 6...if she was really good, she'd be at a P5 school...355-239


The "it's not looking good" category
Cincinatti had Jamelle Elliott...rating 4...UC was lukewarm in support of WCBB but 113-162 is not good in a non-P5 school.
Vanderbilt has Stephanie White....rating 4 (and that might be kind) haven't seen any improvement but I will defer to others...21-40

The "unmitigated disaster, what were they thinking" category
Loyola Chicago had Sheryl Swoopes rating 1 (this was a disaster)...31-62

The "Newbies" category
Virginia has Tina Thompson...rating is TBD
Minnesota has Lindsay Whelan...rating is TBD

So who am I missing?

 

[JordyG]

When looking at the MSU schedule, which currently has more dogs in it then a animal shelter, I did see Virginia on it (they lost 72-44) and Tina Thompson is the new coach.
Tina was a star player and we have seen this play a few times before and I am scratching my head trying to think of a "star" player who became a great coach.
Here's my list of Star player/Coach that I have ranked BEST to Least successful by categories I created (trying to inject some humor as well). I know I am missing some so please add names and comments.

Team...Coach....Rating 1-10.....Comments...records start of '18-19 season
The "Great Coach" Category
Baylor has Kim Mulkey... rating 9 w/2 titles and 539-98 yet we ask why hasn't she done more???
SC has Dawn Staley... rating 8...needs more titles to move up...422-167

The "Pretty Good" Category
Not seeing any that come to mind

The "Need to do more" category
Tennessee has Holly Warlick rating-6, she can recruit but that's about it. ..153-54
GW has Jen Rizzotti rating 6...if she was really good, she'd be at a P5 school...355-239


The "it's not looking good" category
Cincinatti had Jamelle Elliott...rating 4...UC was lukewarm in support of WCBB but 113-162 is not good in a non-P5 school.
Vanderbilt has Stephanie White....rating 4 (and that might be kind) haven't seen any improvement but I will defer to others...21-40

The "unmitigated disaster, what were they thinking" category
Loyola Chicago had Sheryl Swoopes rating 1 (this was a disaster)...31-62

The "Newbies" category
Virginia has Tina Thompson...rating is TBD
Minnesota has Lindsay Whelan...rating is TBD

So who am I missing?

A better avatar?

 

[DefenseBB]

A better avatar?

If HuskyNan can go with Alice in Wonderland, I figured I would support her by going with the "Mad Hatter" plus I live in Stamford so Danbury is close by...AND I channeled my inner JordyG and figured, you changed yours so I can be bold enough to try a new one...

 

[Bigboote]

I dunno whether she'd be considered a star, but Adia Barnes had a nice playing career. She hasn't exactly lit it up at Arizona, but it's too early to tell.

 

[Vowelguy]

2 words: Michael Jordan

 

[Zanzman]

He coached?

 

[Sifaka]

Courtney Banghart 233–93 (.715).

 

[bramos]

A better avatar?

Now that's funny...

 

[bballnut90]

When looking at the MSU schedule, which currently has more dogs in it then a animal shelter, I did see Virginia on it (they lost 72-44) and Tina Thompson is the new coach.
Tina was a star player and we have seen this play a few times before and I am scratching my head trying to think of a "star" player who became a great coach.
Here's my list of Star player/Coach that I have ranked BEST to Least successful by categories I created (trying to inject some humor as well). I know I am missing some so please add names and comments.

Team...Coach....Rating 1-10.....Comments...records start of '18-19 season
The "Great Coach" Category
Baylor has Kim Mulkey... rating 9 w/2 titles and 539-98 yet we ask why hasn't she done more???
SC has Dawn Staley... rating 8...needs more titles to move up...422-167

The "Pretty Good" Category
Not seeing any that come to mind

The "Need to do more" category
Tennessee has Holly Warlick rating-6, she can recruit but that's about it. ..153-54
GW has Jen Rizzotti rating 6...if she was really good, she'd be at a P5 school...355-239


The "it's not looking good" category
Cincinatti had Jamelle Elliott...rating 4...UC was lukewarm in support of WCBB but 113-162 is not good in a non-P5 school.
Vanderbilt has Stephanie White....rating 4 (and that might be kind) haven't seen any improvement but I will defer to others...21-40

The "unmitigated disaster, what were they thinking" category
Loyola Chicago had Sheryl Swoopes rating 1 (this was a disaster)...31-62

The "Newbies" category
Virginia has Tina Thompson...rating is TBD
Minnesota has Lindsay Whelan...rating is TBD

So who am I missing?

Kellie Jolly (Harper) and Nikki Fargas I'd put in the "needs to do more category"
Cynthia Cooper I'd put in the "it's not looking good" category, or maybe "needs to do more"
Semeka Randall had a pretty bad coaching record, same with Bobbie Kelsey.

Kind of all over the place. Would be quite the turn over events if the WNBA's best ever big 3 of Swoopes, Thompson and Cooper all end up being very unsuccessful coaches.

 

[Rocket009]

Carla Berube is doing OK

 

[Monte]

More so, than: Star coach = great player.

 

[JordyG]

If HuskyNan can go with Alice in Wonderland, I figured I would support her by going with the "Mad Hatter" plus I live in Stamford so Danbury is close by...AND I channeled my inner JordyG and figured, you changed yours so I can be bold enough to try a new one...

Careful. Dig too deeply into your inner JordyG and you'll shrink to 5'6". Plus you'll be bank account poor from spending all your discretionary income on a music playing system and records while listening only to jazz and classical. Also your leprechaun will be blue and white, he'll love Italian food and may start calling McGraw "Little Miss". You've been warned.

 

[huskyd]

No. The roles are not the same. When I was much younger, I acted quite a lot in a local theater company. But I was always more interested in how the play was constructed in rehearsal than in my little piece of it. Also, I was not a good actor and had no ambition to be one. Instead I gravitated to directing and think I was much better in that role than on the stage. Playing the game of basketball and coaching it are different functions. It takes particular skills unique to each role in order to be successful. Many coaches were former players, but certainly not all are good.

 

[DefenseBB]

The "Great Coach" Category
Baylor has Kim Mulkey... rating 9 w/2 titles and 539-98
SC has Dawn Staley... rating 8...w/1 title...422-167

The "Pretty Good" Category
Princeton...Courtney Banghart rating 7...233–93
Tufts...Carla Berube...rating 7...356-93 (holding her back is D3)

The "Need to do more" category
LSU has Nikki Caldwell Fargas rating 6.5...199-114 (her stock is dropping)
Tennessee has Holly Warlick rating-6 ..153-54
GW has Jen Rizzotti rating 6....355-239
USC has Cynthia Cooper rating 6...220-163 (trend is down at USC)
Missouri St has Kellie Jolly Harper rating 6..258-196 (3 schools)

The "it's not looking good" category
Cincinnati had Jamelle Elliott...rating 4...113-162
Vanderbilt has Stephanie White....rating 4.....21-40
Wisconsin...Bobbie Kelsey....rating 5....47-100

The "unmitigated disaster, what were they thinking" category
Alabama A&M...Semeka Randall...rating 2...70-181 (2 schools)
Loyola Chicago had Sheryl Swoopes rating 1...31-62

The "Newbies" category
Virginia has Tina Thompson...rating is TBD
Minnesota has Lindsay Whelan...rating is TBD

Let's point out the obvious-Tennessee players do not have a good track record in this. Holly is the best of the bunch...Fargas, Harper, Randall all have struggles.

 

[bballnut90]

The "Great Coach" Category
Baylor has Kim Mulkey... rating 9 w/2 titles and 539-98
SC has Dawn Staley... rating 8...w/1 title...422-167

The "Pretty Good" Category
Princeton...Courtney Banghart rating 7...233–93
Tufts...Carla Berube...rating 7...356-93 (holding her back is D3)

The "Need to do more" category
LSU has Nikki Caldwell Fargas rating 6.5...199-114 (her stock is dropping)
Tennessee has Holly Warlick rating-6 ..153-54
GW has Jen Rizzotti rating 6....355-239
USC has Cynthia Cooper rating 6...220-163 (trend is down at USC)
Missouri St has Kellie Jolly Harper rating 6..258-196 (3 schools)

The "it's not looking good" category
Cincinnati had Jamelle Elliott...rating 4...113-162
Vanderbilt has Stephanie White....rating 4.....21-40
Wisconsin...Bobbie Kelsey....rating 5....47-100

The "unmitigated disaster, what were they thinking" category
Alabama A&M...Semeka Randall...rating 2...70-181 (2 schools)
Loyola Chicago had Sheryl Swoopes rating 1...31-62

The "Newbies" category
Virginia has Tina Thompson...rating is TBD
Minnesota has Lindsay Whelan...rating is TBD

Let's point out the obvious-Tennessee players do not have a good track record in this. Holly is the best of the bunch...Fargas, Harper, Randall all have struggles.

Randall is the only one listed who never found success as a coach. Fargas had some strong years at UCLA, Harper got to the NCAAs as a mid major last decade. I wouldn't call them overwhelming successes but definitely respectable coaching careers.

Could make a similar claim about UCONN coaches since no one has found a ton of success unless you count Berube in D3.

 

[Sifaka]

DBB:
"SC has Dawn Staley... rating 8...w/1 title...422-167 = 71.65% wins

The "Pretty Good" Category
Princeton...Courtney Banghart rating 7...233–93 = 71.47% wins"

 

[DefenseBB]

DBB:
"SC has Dawn Staley... rating 8...w/1 title...422-167 = 71.65% wins

The "Pretty Good" Category
Princeton...Courtney Banghart rating 7...233–93 = 71.47% wins"

View attachment 36953

She's at Princeton, playing in a mid-major conference, without any NCAA tournament success and truth is- it's a stretch she was a "star player". That said, she's done very well and I would suspect will get a P5 job if she wants one.

 

[tomcat]

I think the answer is: "generally not," and I think the reason why is because for many of these star players, yes, they worked like dogs to get to where they are, but they also had an incredible amount of talent. It is hard for someone so talented to understand how a player with lesser talent has to rise above herself to achieve what that coach expects.

That's the first problem. The second is that as a player, the coach was willing or at least able to work like a dog to get to where she ended up, and may have little or no patience with the player who, at least initially, is unable or unwilling to expend that much effort.

My theory is that the combination of these two generally spell failure for stars who try coaching. Of course, there always are exceptions. I don't recall how Bill Russell was as a coach, but I seem to recall his teams did okay. Maybe Shea can pull it off, but if she can, it's not because she was a supremely talented basketball star. It's because she spent so much injury time on the bench learning how not to be a star. People have speculated about Taurasi as a coach. I have my doubts, despite he fact that she is an extraordinary person is just about every way.

 

[huskeynut]

I think the answer is: "generally not," and I think the reason why is because for many of these star players, yes, they worked like dogs to get to where they are, but they also had an incredible amount of talent. It is hard for someone so talented to understand how a player with lesser talent has to rise above herself to achieve what that coach expects.

That's the first problem. The second is that as a player, the coach was willing or at least able to work like a dog to get to where she ended up, and may have little or no patience with the player who, at least initially, is unable or unwilling to expend that much effort.

My theory is that the combination of these two generally spell failure for stars who try coaching. Of course, there always are exceptions. I don't recall how Bill Russell was as a coach, but I seem to recall his teams did okay. Maybe Shea can pull it off, but if she can, it's not because she was a supremely talented basketball star. It's because she spent so much injury time on the bench learning how not to be a star. People have speculated about Taurasi as a coach. I have my doubts, despite he fact that she is an extraordinary person is just about every way.

Tomcat - you nailed it.