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Message: [QUOTE="RuffRuff, post: 5330497, member: 1268"] I mean, you're kind of telling me that it was Tom when you tell me he had the character traits to: 1) Deal with Belichick 2) Humble 3) Was a great leader 4) Took less money I've yet to really hear what made BB so unique. There are a ton of tough coaches in the NFL. There are plenty of SB winning DC's that can't head coach. We know he can call a great defensive gameplan, which Tom reaped the rewards of early. Then by 2006-2007 it was starting to become pretty clear that Tom's knowledge of the game reached a level that made him an on-field coach offensively. I don't know if I can agree with the fact that he would never have won a SB without Beli - he was self driven. What you hear coming from his mouth in retirement was a product of his own belief system, not what was bestowed on him by Beli. Any suggestion he would have been nothing without Beli is a total hypothetical. Beli on the other hand, we have data that fully supports that he would be pretty much above average at best without him, which was proven pre and post Brady. Let's not forget, Beli was able to pull FA's to NE because they wanted to play with Brady. Once that expired, he couldn't get anyone to come. Brady was the center of that locker room culture. There is a bag of evidence supporting Brady, where you have to jump into the hypotheticals to make any stance that supports Beli. Sure, Beli gave him his shot (circumstances helping). Much of Brady's run post those early teams was a "bend but don't break" defense because they knew they could control the game from the offensive side of the ball. Hell, Beli wanted to get rid of Brady for Jimmy G in 2017. Kraft had to step in. TB goes on to win 2 more SB's, plays in 3. Could have won that third if not for the mysterious Beli call not to play their best CB. If Beli played his cards right and held onto Brady through retirement, likely would have caught Shula for all-time wins (fell 14 short, and you know that has to burn him the historian he is). Also worth considering - not 1 QB Belichick drafted and grew up throughout his entire tenure went on to do anything meaningful elsewhere, other than Brady. Verdict - Brady [/QUOTE]

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