Could there be a B12N AND a LHN?

[nelsonmuntz]

The LHN is just Texas' Tier 3 content, right? What if the B12N happened for Tier 1 and 2, AND included Tier 3 for everyone but Texas? ESPN would obviously not like it, because they want to get out of the LHN. But I can kind of see Texas' point about not wanting to take one for the team just because ESPN signed a bad contract.

The problem for ESPN would be that a B12N would make the LHN completely and totally irrelevant, where ESPN would be lucky to get cable providers in Austin to pick it up. ESPN would really be taking it in the shorts if the LHN was not folded into a B12N, and I can't see them doing that.

 

[junglehusky]

At this point Boren has been so public about needing to fold the LHN into the B12N, if the LHN is still a separate entity in ~5 years I think it means OU will bolt. If it's T3 only that might be a compromise. Maybe they could have one main B12N and then regional ones sort of like the Pac12N did but that was a disaster.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Um.... No there can't because they have a contract in place with ESPN & FOX for their Tier 1 & 2 rights that runs thru 2025 already. There are no available Tier 1 or 2 rights to create a B12N with

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Um.... No there can't because they have a contract in place with ESPN & FOX for their Tier 1 & 2 rights that runs thru 2025 already. There are no available Tier 1 or 2 rights to create a B12N with

I don't know how they will allocate games between the networks. It seems like the SECN gets some decent games.

My bigger point is, can they do the B12N without Texas?

 

[Jimdish255]

I don't know how they will allocate games between the networks. It seems like the SECN gets some decent games.

My bigger point is, can they do the B12N without Texas?

You were reading my mind and I would think yes but would Texas still block if given that option vs payout for LHN?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You were reading my mind and I would think yes but would Texas still block if given that option vs payout for LHN?

I think ESPN would block, and Texas wouldn't be happy about it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why not just let Texas keep the LHN? At the end of the day, why perform gymnastics to fold the LHN into the B12N? Let the LHN do its thing, and the B12N do its thing. There are a dozen ways to starve the LHN out by restricting content available to school networks. Let's see how many women's volleyball games and UT/UTSA games the network can handle before there isn't a cable provider in the country providing the LHN.

 

[mavblues]

Why not just let Texas keep the LHN? At the end of the day, why perform gymnastics to fold the LHN into the B12N? Let the LHN do its thing, and the B12N do its thing. There are a dozen ways to starve the LHN out by restricting content available to school networks. Let's see how many women's volleyball games and UT/UTSA games the network can handle before there isn't a cable provider in the country providing the LHN.

But UT still gets paid regardless, so why would they care?

 

[noeynox]

I've wondered the question in the OP myself for some,time now.

 

[1husky]

Why not just let Texas keep the LHN? At the end of the day, why perform gymnastics to fold the LHN into the B12N? Let the LHN do its thing, and the B12N do its thing. There are a dozen ways to starve the LHN out by restricting content available to school networks. Let's see how many women's volleyball games and UT/UTSA games the network can handle before there isn't a cable provider in the country providing the LHN.

Isn't the point to use the LHN to avoid startup costs of a B12N? Just do some rebranding and re-launch?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Isn't the point to use the LHN to avoid startup costs of a B12N? Just do some rebranding and re-launch?

That was the stated cause, but the startup costs for a new network aren't that big. They can borrow a studio and production equipment, and a spot on the channel dial depends on the cable providers. My suspicion is that ESPN wants the LHN to go away and the rest of the Big 12 doesn't like it either.

 

[billybud]

The question is...Will Texas do something that is in the best interest of the conference?

I think they will, only if that conference interest is also their interest.

Texas knows that they will not fall behind the B1G or SEC programs in revenue....no matter what happens to a Big 12 network. If they want to have a stronger conference, they will compromise.

If Texas wants to continue to stand supremely above the rest of the conference, push their independent branding, and to hell with the peon hanger ons, they will not compromise.

The wild card is...does Texas worry at all about the conference's future? They went through a near death experience only five years ago. Has it had any effect?

 

[Huskyforlife]

I'm no CR expert. Just wondering why the B12N can't charge their increased rate in Texas without UT? Doesn't having TCU, Baylor, and Tech enough Texas content for people to buy in?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Why not just let Texas keep the LHN? At the end of the day, why perform gymnastics to fold the LHN into the B12N? Let the LHN do its thing, and the B12N do its thing. There are a dozen ways to starve the LHN out by restricting content available to school networks. Let's see how many women's volleyball games and UT/UTSA games the network can handle before there isn't a cable provider in the country providing the LHN.

My understanding is that setting up a network isn't easy. There is quite a lot of upfront cost, and effort to build out the cable channel itself (staff, equipment, facilities etc.). ESPN has already done that with the LHN. The only reason a B12N is even viable as a consideration is that ESPN can avoid duplicating those sunk costs, and roll them into a network that should have a larger reach and should command more in carriage fees (and advertising $). If they can't do that, then the idea of a B12N never gets of the ground, especially if it doesn't include UT. An ACCN would be more viable than that.

ESPN is already operating the LHN at a loss according to reports. Starving it further? Why would they want to do that? Making it profitable, or even break even...that would get their attention.

 

[NYUConn]

I'm no CR expert. Just wondering why the B12N can't charge their increased rate in Texas without UT? Doesn't having TCU, Baylor, and Tech enough Texas content for people to buy in?

Baylor is a small private school in Waco with a small fanbase outside of that tiny city. TCU is in Dallas/Ft. Worth but like Baylor is a small private who's alumni are dwarfed in their own home town.

Texas Tech is a state school located Lubbock, which is closer to New Mexico than Dallas.

UT is the only Big 12 program that actually plays throughout the state. They need UT to get all of TX.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Baylor is a small private school in Waco with a small fanbase outside of that tiny city. TCU is in Dallas/Ft. Worth but like Baylor is a small private who's alumni are dwarfed in their own home town.

Texas Tech is a state school located Lubbock, which is closer to New Mexico than Dallas.

UT is the only Big 12 program that actually plays throughout the state. They need UT to get all of TX.

If there was both a LHN and a B12N, very few cable systems would pick up the LHN. That seems like the easiest way to solve this problem. Put the LHN out of business on its own.

 

[NYUConn]

If there was both a LHN and a B12N, very few cable systems would pick up the LHN. That seems like the easiest way to solve this problem. Put the LHN out of business on its own.

Well to your point earlier if LHN retains Tier 3 content and UT is the most popular team in Texas, I can't see people opting for Big12N only when they could be missing 1-2 football and 4-8 BBall games every year.

That's significant.

 

[mavblues]

If there was both a LHN and a B12N, very few cable systems would pick up the LHN. That seems like the easiest way to solve this problem. Put the LHN out of business on its own.

Again, UT gets paid regardless, so why would they care?

 

[whalerfan]

I've done work for LHN. Nobody has it and even fewer watch it. They get one football game per year. Usually the first one.

 

[Briuconn]

Again, UT gets paid regardless, so why would they care?

They should care, because they could probably make more money with a national network as well as ESPN is losing money on it and will killed it the first chance they get

 

[UConnJim]

Bottom line is that the LHN will pay out an average of $15 million per year over the life of the 20 year contract for UTexas' Tier 3 content. This is a very rich Tier 3 deal and it is guaranteed even if the LHN is unprofitable. If the LHN became very profitable, Texas has more upside to the annual payout. According to some reports, the LHN is now marginally profitable, but not profitable enough to create upside to Texas payout in the near future.

To answer Nelson's original question, you could have both the LHN and the B12N. But, without Texas' involvement with the B12N, I doubt a B12N would pay more than some of the B12 schools' current Tier 3 contracts.

 

[mavblues]

They should care, because they could probably make more money with a national network as well as ESPN is losing money on it and will killed it the first chance they get

The "first chance they get" happens to coincide with UT's opportunity to join B1G/Pac.

So again, why does UT care...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The "first chance they get" happens to coincide with UT's opportunity to join B1G/Pac.

So again, why does UT care...

No one goes costing their business partners hundreds of millions of dollars and gets to walk away without a mark. THIS is why UT will never be in the SEC, Big 10 or Pac 12. Those leagues make a ton of money already, and they don't need to put up with this crap.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well to your point earlier if LHN retains Tier 3 content and UT is the most popular team in Texas, I can't see people opting for Big12N only when they could be missing 1-2 football and 4-8 BBall games every year.

That's significant.

It the LHN is 1-2 football games IN TOTAL and 4-8 hoops games IN TOTAL a year, all of which will be lousy opponents because unlike the B12N, there will not be any conference games on the LHN, the LHN becomes a pretty easy channel to pass on if you are a cable operator. On the other hand, the B12N will have 11 to 13 teams to choose from every weekend from September through March.

 

[NYUConn]

It the LHN is 1-2 football games IN TOTAL and 4-8 hoops games IN TOTAL a year, all of which will be lousy opponents because unlike the B12N, there will not be any conference games on the LHN, the LHN becomes a pretty easy channel to pass on if you are a cable operator. On the other hand, the B12N will have 11 to 13 teams to choose from every weekend from September through March.

You say that, but SNY gets the same amount of UConn content annually and it has been invaluable to the network.

 

[mavblues]

No one goes costing their business partners hundreds of millions of dollars and gets to walk away without a mark.

Pitt, Cuse, ND, BC, WVU, etc all beg to differ.