Concern about hubris

[UConn82]

I am concerned about our team for this year.

In my judgment, the loss to Mississippi State exposed a clear weakness in this team. I am not referring to our lack of depth or our lack of height last year, both of which seem to be remedied.

I am referring to a kind of attitude, something I think Geno saw very clearly. The team last year didn't seem tough enough to me. There was no Kelly Faris, no Maya, no Caroline, no JenR, no Jamelle, no D, etc. No player to demand that everyone be held accountable. Probably the closest last year was Gabby, the only player who brought even her B game to the MS game. (Everyone else I rate C or D.)

It sure looked like last year's team was not ready for the huge, bright lights of the Final Four, the lights under which Stewie (and Maya, etc.) shined their brightest.

Geno threatened to bench players this year if they don't play excellent defense, e.g., Lou and Pheesa. Defense this year won't be optional, like last year, when he couldn't sub out non-excellent defense. I sure hope he does bench players this year, just like he did with Stewie and Tuck when they were juniors. (When did Morgan become Tuck, by the way?)

Many people, myself included, got really excited last year as we continued to win.

This year, nothing this team does before the Final Four will convince me they are ready for the biggest and brightest lights. They have to prove they can play their A game under such circumstances. We shall see.

I suspect my post will not be all that popular. Popularity doesn't win national championships. I missed the hats, T shirts, and the parade last year. I like being spoiled.

Thoughts?

 

[UConn82]

I forgot to add that one thing that motivated me to post this was that Geno reported that the players did not want to watch the tape of the MS game, that they just "wanted to move on." I don't think they can really move on without studying what went wrong and working to fix it.

 

[eebmg]

I am very glad that

1) I can enjoy and appreciate how much last season's team over achieved. The Miss. St loss had many factors and I would not put toughness anyhere near the top of the list.
2) I can enter this season appreciative and optimistic and ready to enjoy great BB. If this season, we somehow do not win the championship, there will be plenty of time to be dissappointed.

 

[bags27]

Well, you're certainly right about one thing, when you say "I suspect my post will not be all that popular."

I don't buy the hubris stuff and I don't even buy Geno's rant about "kids today." Last year's team completely over-achieved. They were heroic. They played their hearts out, they were tougher than nails, spilled their guts, left everything on the court, and made every other sports platitude I can think of very real. One of my favorite sports seasons ever. I love that team. To take one example, what they did at South Bend was jaw-dropping (at least, after the game Geno's jaw was on the floor). They covered themselves with glory and were a hair's breadth away from winning everything.

 

[warbler1055]

bags27 said it better than I could have. OP was looking at a different team and players that I saw. Just because they are not named Maya Moore, Breanna Stewart, Diana Taurasi etc...does not mean they are not tough. They lost a game where many factors were involved which could have happened to any team.

 

[mbr33ct]

I am concerned about our team for this year.

In my judgment, the loss to Mississippi State exposed a clear weakness in this team. I am not referring to our lack of depth or our lack of height last year, both of which seem to be remedied.

I am referring to a kind of attitude, something I think Geno saw very clearly. The team last year didn't seem tough enough to me. There was no Kelly Faris, no Maya, no Caroline, no JenR, no Jamelle, no D, etc. No player to demand that everyone be held accountable. Probably the closest last year was Gabby, the only player who brought even her B game to the MS game. (Everyone else I rate C or D.)

It sure looked like last year's team was not ready for the huge, bright lights of the Final Four, the lights under which Stewie (and Maya, etc.) shined their brightest.

Geno threatened to bench players this year if they don't play excellent defense, e.g., Lou and Pheesa. Defense this year won't be optional, like last year, when he couldn't sub out non-excellent defense. I sure hope he does bench players this year, just like he did with Stewie and Tuck when they were juniors. (When did Morgan become Tuck, by the way?)

Many people, myself included, got really excited last year as we continued to win.

This year, nothing this team does before the Final Four will convince me they are ready for the biggest and brightest lights. They have to prove they can play their A game under such circumstances. We shall see.

I suspect my post will not be all that popular. Popularity doesn't win national championships. I missed the hats, T shirts, and the parade last year. I like being spoiled.

Thoughts?

Frankly, I would not have gone further than the highlighted sentence as to why they lost to Miss St. To me that was always UConn's "weakness" last year.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

MS was a "fluke". All credit to Vic and his team, but it was just one of those things, like the fly that snuck into your PP&J sandwich when you weren't looking.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Frankly, I would not have gone further than the highlighted sentence as to why they lost to Miss St. To me that was always UConn's "weakness" last year.

I agree with short bench. As long as what the short bench was missing was a very tall, very skilled player who can score and defend.

 

[Huskee11]

MS was a "fluke". All credit to Vic and his team, but it was just one of those things, like the fly that snuck into your PP&J sandwich when you weren't looking.

Wow, one more reason not to eat PB&J sandwiches!

Bags said it way better than I could, nothing to add other than a BIG "like".

 

[Kaizen]

Last year honestly, we had only 7 players, 5 starters and Crystal, Natalie.
I am very thankful that we only lost one game.

 

[CocoHusky]

I am concerned about our team for this year.

In my judgment, the loss to Mississippi State exposed a clear weakness in this team. I am not referring to our lack of depth or our lack of height last year, both of which seem to be remedied.

So UCONN should have a pretty good team then this year right?

I am referring to a kind of attitude, something I think Geno saw very clearly. The team last year didn't seem tough enough to me. There was no Kelly Faris, no Maya, no Caroline, no JenR, no Jamelle, no D, etc. No player to demand that everyone be held accountable. Probably the closest last year was Gabby, the only player who brought even her B game to the MS game. (Everyone else I rate C or D.)

Most of us have no idea what you are talking about, UCONN WBB teams are never without leadership and if they were the staff would fill the void. BTW pretty sweet that UCONN returns three AA players and the National Defensive player of the year.

It sure looked like last year's team was not ready for the huge, bright lights of the Final Four, the lights under which Stewie (and Maya, etc.) shined their brightest.

Might I remind you that this was not UCONN players first FF. Sophomore Kia Nurse was brilliant and hit clutch shots in 2015 against ND. Gabby Williams was brilliant in the emergency start against Syracuse in 2016 and up until her injury KLS was also brilliant in 2016.

Geno threatened to bench players this year if they don't play excellent defense, e.g., Lou and Pheesa. Defense this year won't be optional, like last year, when he couldn't sub out non-excellent defense.

Defense is never optional at UCONN and you are flat out wrong about the defense of KLS and Napheesa last year. Napheesa was among the best post defender in the nation last year. KLS improved her perimeter defense dramatically last year and is now among the better perimeter defenders on the UCONN squad. If you want to watch Napheesa do defensive work in the post turn on the Baylor game where she beasted both Brown and Mompremier. KLS put her defense work in against ND & MD by guarding Walker- Kinborough and Arike Agunbowale - two of the most dynamic perimeter players in the country last year. So if Geno was going to bench Napheesa and KLS for defense reasons who is he going to put in the game?

I sure hope he does bench players this year, just like he did with Stewie and Tuck when they were juniors. (When did Morgan become Tuck, by the way?)

At birth?

Many people, myself included, got really excited last year as we continued to win.

This year, nothing this team does before the Final Four will convince me they are ready for the biggest and brightest lights. They have to prove they can play their A game under such circumstances. We shall see.

Cool, we’ll catch up to you in April. In the meantime please don’t jump on here if the team happens to have a bad game.

I suspect my post will not be all that popular.

You might be on to something here!

Popularity doesn't win national championships.

How would you know?

 

[diggerfoot]

There's much to say and I'm glad others are saying it. I'll just add that last year's squad won more close games in one year than either Stewart or Moore did in their four year careers, and they did it with injuries and puking into buckets. When they were faced with a close game, like Stanford or Notre Dame multiple times, those past teams lost more often than won. Granted, they were so good there were not many close games to lose, but toughness is determined by other things than how good you are.

On edit: I'll add there is a concern I have, the chemistry. Before this year 2001 probably had the most collection of talent, and they performed at their worst at times when all that talent was healthy. Italy will probably prove to be huge for this and I'm optimistic, but people tend to merely add up the sum of the parts and neglect to factor in how chemistry makes the whole greater than the sum.

 

[cferraro04]

All I will say about last year's loss to MS was on that given night MS was the better team.

 

[cohenzone]

Last year we were Baylor losing to Louisville Stewie's freshman year that made our NC path much easier. MissState returned the favor for USC. The main difference between the loss last year and the rest of the amazing season was Collier had an uncharacteristic tough shooting game against a sky high team that still needed a terrific shot to win. Our team was way tougher last year than anyone had a right to expect.

 

[Rema64]

I am concerned about our team for this year.

In my judgment, the loss to Mississippi State exposed a clear weakness in this team. I am not referring to our lack of depth or our lack of height last year, both of which seem to be remedied.

I am referring to a kind of attitude, something I think Geno saw very clearly. The team last year didn't seem tough enough to me. There was no Kelly Faris, no Maya, no Caroline, no JenR, no Jamelle, no D, etc. No player to demand that everyone be held accountable. Probably the closest last year was Gabby, the only player who brought even her B game to the MS game. (Everyone else I rate C or D.)

Thoughts?

This team has their own personality and I think the 3 AA's and 36 wins against top 20 teams speaks volumes about their toughness.

 

[hjoerring]

CocoHusky, really! If KLS is one of our best defender then we are in trouble. Yes, she has improved, but she came here with little or no knowledge about defense and rebounding. The same can be said for Dangerfield. She should be looking over her shoulders, so should KLS (when scoring isn't a challenge).

I think Uconn82 has overstated is point, but there is something there. Gabby and Nurse cannot be any tougher. And when it's not going as she would like, Nurse is willing to rough it up a little. This coming season is really the time for both Nurse and Gabby to will a championship with the help of the others.

 

[CocoHusky]

CocoHusky, really! If KLS is one of our best defender then we are in trouble. Yes, she has improved, but she came here with little or no knowledge about defense and rebounding. The same can be said for Dangerfield. She should be looking over her shoulders, so should KLS (when scoring isn't a challenge).
I think Uconn82 has overstated is point, but there is something there. Gabby and Nurse cannot be any tougher. And when it's not going as she would like, Nurse is willing to rough it up a little. This coming season is really the time for both Nurse and Gabby to will a championship with the help of the others.

You have not been watching KLS defensive- I say this because you specifically mention how she "came to UCONN". All/Most freshmen come to UCONN that way. KLS is getting ready to be a Junior and if you were paying attention last year you would see "significant" improvement in defensive stance, the angles she takes to defend and most importantly physical strength. Freshmen KLS made the mistake of tangling with Sarah Imovbioh of SC. KLS lost badly and looked like a rag doll in the process. Sophomore KLS tangled with Brionna Jones of Maryland on a switch in the post and played to a stale mate- ball went out of bounds.
Third being "tougher" is kind of low bar that is too often repeated by the losing coach after a UCONN stomping:
Brenda: "We just weren't tough enough"
Kim: " They were just tougher than us"
Muffet: " We weren't tough enough on the possessions that mattered"
Cori Close: "They out toughed us. "
When I watch UCONN play I see toughness on every possession because UCONN believes every possession matters.
What would being tougher look like from any UCONN player?

 

[hugefan]

Spot on Coco. He is a KLS basher always has been.

There was a reason Geno played KLS the minutes he did and a reason she ended up playing as she did her freshman year. The fact that KLS is a scorer not just a shooter shows that rhetoric does not make it fact.

 

[tomcat]

I think the OP is overreacting, although I think the initial premise of the post is reasonable. The team has several things to prove;
1. That the players can come together and demonstrate chemistry.
2. That the freshmen can contribute meaningful minutes by tournament time.
3. That the group can handle the pressure of a potential unbeaten season going into the tournaments.

I don't think this is about hubris. If the team had been playing together for, say, a year already, maybe it would be. I just don't see hubris as the problem. But this could be one of those teams that loses its collective mind from time to time. I think they have enough clutch players to correct problems as they develop, but we've all seen teams that should'a done things better than it turns out they did. There could be some scares his year. I kinda hope there are, so the team can learn while winning.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I don't get a lot of this. I saw a lot of heroics and grit displayed in the OOC schedule. Maybe the distractions of the mad schedule of the Final Four threw the team a little off kilter. The rest of it is Merde Happens imo.

 

[LasVegasYank]

Self confidence is an admirable trait and is something no player should be without. Sometimes that evolves into cockiness which can be a plus and, in some cases, can be quite entertaining (see Diana Taurasi).

It's when this devolves into arrogance that the player gets into trouble.

I've never seen that trait from a UConn player in the 22 years I've been a fan and hope that I never do.

 

[connie]

I don't buy the hubris stuff and I don't even buy Geno's rant about "kids today." Last year's team completely over-achieved

I tend to agree. But let's be clear about one thing. Last year's team over-achieved, only because most did not see it coming. By most objective measures (to the extent such a thing is possible), I consider last year's starting five among the best in UConn's history. No time to catalog the most telling stats. Notwithstanding, four of the starting five (Kia, Phees, KLS, and Gabby) were capable of going off on any given night (and did so). Team assists broke league records. In many games, the team was on cruise-control halfway into the 3rd quarter. Three-point shooting was pretty remarkable, with Kia, KLS and Saniya a regular threat. We beat numerous ranked opponents, including on the road. All five starters were very effective passers and ball-handlers. Kia and Saniya were very effective defensively. While the team certainly lacked the depth of other UConn teams, the starters were in most respects excellent. Not saying they were UConn's best ever. But certainly they rank very high in the competition.

It would be interesting to compare the starters, statistically, with the starting five for past squads.

 

[bags27]

I tend to agree. But let's be clear about one thing. Last year's team over-achieved, only because most did not see it coming. By most objective measures (to the extent such a thing is possible), I consider last year's starting five among the best in UConn's history.

I understand how you (or all of us) might feel that way. But it wasn't just a case of exceeding artificially low expectations with underestimated talent.
1. The big 3 had graduated and, with that, they took virtually all the leadership (Kia being the remaining leader yet was questionable, after her tears the previous year; Gabby learned to step up big-time against Notre Dame). But the best player on the court--Pheesa--is not a natural leader, unlike most previous UConn teams.
2. They were, and remained throughout the year, undersized.
3. They had essentially no bench. Crystal was brilliant against Baylor, but far less than that afterwards; Natalie played well enough a couple of times, but never became even a vague reminder of Stef, which was our hope.

The entire season was walking a tightrope. A foul-out or injury could end it at any time. So, sure, Gabby and Pheesa exceeded expectations, Kia and Lou probably played as well as we had hoped, and Saniya was the real surprise. But in considering the entire team as an entity with significant liabilities listed above, rather than by the fact that UConn ended up with 3 all-Americans, the team vastly over-achieved.

 

[Scud49]

I really don't even want to respond to the OP on this, but I'll take a minute and do it anyway.

They were fantastic, even without a deep bench they way over achieved, Gabby and Naphessa exploded onto the scene, then they ran into a very hot and highly motivated MS team at the very end. End of story for 2016- 17.

I'm very proud of them, and their accomplishments have set the stage very nicely for this upcoming season.

 

[hugefan]

Someone forgot to put "I love ..... BUT.... " in their posting. Didn't matter as from the history of the posts there is always that subtle dig.

I am a Data Analyst, but I work with people who are much smarter than I. They analyze trends of things like social media, blogs and yes message boards. The one thing which is enlightening about this board is its history. The search engine is not great but once you spot the same thing subtle or not being said over and over you can can check the history.

I became fascinated with this after Geno's interview in the 2015/16 season when he mentioned that he was being bugged by "handlers".

The penny dropped. Things started to show themselves. If the great Geno was being bugged then dang boards like this could be a hotbed for stuff like that. Geno was restrained at that time as he could have outed those involved, although the gist of it was pretty clear.

The constant over posting of who will do this and that, with different a spin always becomes the same with some of the same posters saying the same over and over. The same posters disappearing when their target of negativity is playing well or even outstanding, they lie in wait to jump on them if they see a mistake or comment they can twist and embellish a narrative that doesn't exist.

One thing I was told by my learned colleagues was that the posters who do these things are usually invested in trying to negate someone or something.

This got me thinking why not just come out and say you don't like someone, that's putting it nicely, but they said as with all posters who post anonymously they are usually very close to the situation and find ways to multipost, rotating IPS etc.

I am not talking about those posters who have been on this board for lite years, just those who seem topop up with a certain class. And I am not talking about those posters who are equal in their praise and criticism for the great players, coaches of this team and I thoroughly enjoy those people.

I will add that any poster who wants to praise 1 player up the cazzoo is great but if you are constantly bashing and talking negatively about another player/players who don't warrant such unequal criticism, the motivation becomes questionable.