OT: Coaching Help

[Hey Adrien!]

Here's the Summary:

My first week of coaching basketball games start the week of 1/24.

Normally, this wouldn't be a problem but we started having practices on 11/29. Due to a two week athletics pause after winter break and our school play prior to winter break, I haven't had a full team practice in five weeks.

I'm coaching two teams. The 7th/8th grade boys' team is a blast to coach. All the athletes in our 8th grade are girls' so there's just one 8th grade boy on the team and the rest of the boys are 7th graders. They're a great group. I don't think we'll win much, but they work their butts off. Coaches dream.

Here's the problem. My 5th/6th grade boys' team is god awful, easily the worst group of boys I've coached in ten years. In total, there's 17 kids and maybe three of them have ever played an organized game of basketball.

Our best player is a new student who is a very skilled AAU player with quite the attitude problem. Even worse, his parents are both annoying, who expect their son to "play up" in the 7th/8th grade team. That idea got shot down w/ us maintaining certain cohorts.

Here's where I need your help:

We have one practice on Wednesday and then our first game on the following Monday. After that game, for the next six weeks our practice to game ratio is 4:8, and then the season is over. Two of those four practices will be cut short due to us hosting games on the court. To make things more fun, my co-coach bailed due to discomfort with Covid (she moved this year from the hard lockdown in Bangladesh).

With such little time with such an inexperienced group of kids, how the heck should I prepare? We've done a little bit of skills practice already (dribbling, layups, jump shot, different types of passes, three-point stance, defensive stance), but that's about it.

I'm not as worried about defense (I'll play a mostly soft man-to-man D where players will focus on help D if their guy is close to the perimeter; I hate coaching zone), but I'm expecting our offense to be horrendous. I'm not worried that they'll miss shots (kids do that this level all the time), but I'm more concerned about movement on offense (aka lots of standing around when players don't have the ball). I like trying a four out motion offense, but time is of the essence.

In summary, I need help!!!

Serious or silly responses both appreciated.

 

[bazzdog]

Here's the Summary:

My first week of coaching basketball games start the week of 1/24.

Normally, this wouldn't be a problem but we started having practices on 11/29. Due to a two week athletics pause after winter break and our school play prior to winter break, I haven't had a full team practice in five weeks.

I'm coaching two teams. The 7th/8th grade boys' team is a blast to coach. All the athletes in our 8th grade are girls' so there's just one 8th grade boy on the team and the rest of the boys are 7th graders. They're a great group. I don't think we'll win much, but they work their butts off. Coaches dream.

Here's the problem. My 5th/6th grade boys' team is god awful, easily the worst group of boys I've coached in ten years. In total, there's 17 kids and maybe three of them have ever played an organized game of basketball.

Our best player is a new student who is a very skilled AAU player with quite the attitude problem. Even worse, his parents are both annoying, who expect their son to "play up" in the 7th/8th grade team. That idea got shot down w/ us maintaining certain cohorts.

Here's where I need your help:

We have one practice on Wednesday and then our first game on the following Monday. After that game, for the next six weeks our practice to game ratio is 4:8, and then the season is over. Two of those four practices will be cut short due to us hosting games on the court. To make things more fun, my co-coach bailed due to discomfort with Covid (she moved this year from the hard lockdown in Bangladesh).

With such little time with such an inexperienced group of kids, how the heck should I prepare? We've done a little bit of skills practice already (dribbling, layups, jump shot, different types of passes, three-point stance, defensive stance), but that's about it.

I'm not as worried about defense (I'll play a mostly soft man-to-man D where players will focus on help D if their guy is close to the perimeter; I hate coaching zone), but I'm expecting our offense to be horrendous. I'm not worried that they'll miss shots (kids do that this level all the time), but I'm more concerned about movement on offense (aka lots of standing around when players don't have the ball). I like trying a four out motion offense, but time is of the essence.

In summary, I need help!!!

Serious or silly responses both appreciated.

Get rid of the attitude problem. Let him play up.
He’s gone and so are the parents.

 

[Get a Job]

I'm not as worried about defense (I'll play a mostly soft man-to-man D where players will focus on help D if their guy is close to the perimeter; I hate coaching zone), but I'm expecting our offense to be horrendous. I'm not worried that they'll miss shots (kids do that this level all the time), but I'm more concerned about movement on offense (aka lots of standing around when players don't have the ball). I like trying a four out motion offense, but time is of the essence.

Dan, is that you?!

 

[the Q]

Get rid of the attitude problem. Let him play up.
He’s gone and so are the parents.

Will solve plenty, but you also won’t get the ball past half court until you’re down 20.

(Ignore that pressing in 5/6 grade is stupid for some of the reasons in the story)

 

[husky429]

Don't coach a zone with middle schoolers, for sure. It's a waste of their time. I generally don't like presses in middle school. Maybe try it for a minute with each platoon with the 7/8 group. Or practice a half court press instead... whatever.

I'd so go straight even playing time with the 5/6 group and just let them have fun. They aren't winning much as you said, so getting them to like the sport is going to be more important than playing the best kids in the long run. Tell Mr. Attitude and his parents that playing time is even and you're not playing to win. If they aren't on board with that completely, they don't have to play any more.

With the 7/8 team I always recommend even playing time for 3/4 of the game, and then play whoever has performed the best that last quarter if it's close.

I'd just make practices how you would any other year. Focus on the skills, even if your time is limited. Try to get in a shooting/passing/dribbling/team defense etc. drill every day.

For offense, just go to a boring old read and react pass and cut. You don't have the time or the skill to make set plays work with either group at this point. Make them practice it without a ball. Then do it with a foam dodgeball or something that doesn't bounce. Add the basketball a few minutes later when they get the hang of it.

 

[the Q]

Don't coach a zone with middle schoolers, for sure. It's a waste of their time. I generally don't like presses in middle school. Maybe try it for a minute with each platoon with the 7/8 group. Or practice a half court press instead... whatever.

I'd so go straight even playing time with the 5/6 group and just let them have fun. They aren't winning much as you said, so getting them to like the sport is going to be more important than playing the best kids in the long run. Tell Mr. Attitude and his parents that playing time is even and you're not playing to win. If they aren't on board with that completely, they don't have to play any more.

With the 7/8 team I always recommend even playing time for 3/4 of the game, and then play whoever has performed the best that last quarter if it's close.

I'd just make practices how you would any other year. Focus on the skills, even if your time is limited. Try to get in a shooting/passing/dribbling/team defense etc. drill every day.

For offense, just go to a boring old read and react pass and cut. You don't have the time or the skill to make set plays work with either group at this point. Make them practice it without a ball. Then do it with a foam dodgeball or something that doesn't bounce. Add the basketball a few minutes later when they get the hang of it.

I nominate you for czar of youth basketball for the state of Ct

 

[ClifSpliffy]

''I'll play a mostly soft man-to-man D where players will focus on help D if their guy is close to the perimeter'
ur halfway home. excellent plan for d. i would encourage you to pick the d players to guard the 'bigs,' who have the best footspeed with reasonable judgement, cuz switching and getting a body in the way of a penetrator will be far more productive than just matching up by size alone. at that age, with little experience or skill, i literally would tell my team 'never leave the paint on d. never. if the opponent had a player who could actually hit 3's, well, we'll figure that out if it does happen.'
if you can find one, or miraculously, two, of ur players who can sort of, mebbe once in a while, 'on a good day,' actually take open three's, do that on o. at least the game won't be wasted as u learn who can do that in a game.
i coached both age groups in the past. one time, at the beginning of a season and against some machine program from the bronx, i did just that.
i had a vastly undersized and inexperienced 5/6th grade team come out of the gate firing 3's. a green light for anyone who was mildly open. even had a kid, mebbe 25%'er, and aboot 2 feet tall (lol) take the advice to the point where he was jackin just past the half court line ('coach said fire when open. im open!). luck was with us that day, as we turned what should have been like a 30 point loss into a 10 point loss. it's on film somewhere, and highly entertaining as those munchkins were commanded to jack anytime (2's or 3's) they felt open. if they passed on a few shots in a row, they were yanked.
forget all the charts and grafts, weave drills, pass and pick away, whatever, and fire at will! big fun for all, especially if some go in, and you realize 'that kid, who knew?,' and with such chaos going on, it sometimes speeds up a better opponent, and in their rush to join in, they may start to kick and fumble the ball all over the place, leading to turnovers.
the only problems with youth coaching are some of the players parents. ban 'em. lol.

 

[the Q]

''I'll play a mostly soft man-to-man D where players will focus on help D if their guy is close to the perimeter'
ur halfway home. excellent plan for d. i would encourage you to pick the d players to guard the 'bigs,' who have the best footspeed with reasonable judgement, cuz switching and getting a body in the way of a penetrator will be far more productive than just matching up by size alone. at that age, with little experience or skill, i literally would tell my team 'never leave the paint on d. never. if the opponent had a player who could actually hit 3's, well, we'll figure that out if it does happen.'
if you can find one, or miraculously, two, of ur players who can sort of, mebbe once in a while, 'on a good day,' actually take open three's, do that on o. at least the game won't be wasted as u learn who can do that in a game.
i coached both age groups in the past. one time, at the beginning of a season and against some machine program from the bronx, i did just that.
i had a vastly undersized and inexperienced 5/6th grade team come out of the gate firing 3's. a green light for anyone who was mildly open. even had a kid, mebbe 25%'er, and aboot 2 feet tall (lol) take the advice to the point where he was jackin just past the half court line ('coach said fire when open. im open!). luck was with us that day, as we turned what should have been like a 30 point loss into a 10 point loss. it's on film somewhere, and highly entertaining as those munchkins were commanded to jack anytime (2's or 3's) they felt open. if they passed on a few shots in a row, they were yanked.
forget all the charts and grafts, weave drills, pass and pick away, whatever, and fire at will! big fun for all, especially if some go in, and you realize 'that kid, who knew?,' and with such chaos going on, it sometimes speeds up a better opponent, and in their rush to join in, they may start to kick and fumble the ball all over the place, leading to turnovers.
the only problems with youth coaching are some of the players parents. ban 'em. lol.

Last one, facts

Ban them from even watching the games

 

[Improviser]

Speaking of a foam dodge ball, I own the one below:

Because it is so soft, I kick it around my house, and down the hall, and it ricochets against walls and the couch and other furniture and it does NOT damage furniture. It improves my agility as I just move my feet to get behind it and center it so I can keep kicking it.

You can kick it to your kids and they can kick it back even inside your house or basement.

 

[husky429]

I nominate you for czar of youth basketball for the state of Ct

Hard pass. It takes a special kind of patience to pull off coaching middle school well that I don't have. I coached middle school for 1 year and it was harder than any I had coaching JV or varsity basketball.

 

[auror]

Get rid of the attitude problem. Let him play up.
He’s gone and so are the parents.

He coaches both, so not so much lol.

 

[the Q]

He coaches both, so not so much lol.

He might get humbled playing the older kids

He also might play more than even time. Idk the kid.

If he plays less playing up…that might be an issue

 

[Improviser]

Last one, facts

Ban them from even watching the games

Or from bringing bats to the game.

Or alcohol.

 

[the Q]

Or from bringing bats to the game.

Or alcohol.

Sounds like an epic story in here….

 

[the Q]

Hard pass. It takes a special kind of patience to pull off coaching middle school well that I don't have. I coached middle school for 1 year and it was harder than any I had coaching JV or varsity basketball.

The czar doesn’t coach.

He makes sure the game makes sense to the kids (no pressing for grade 5/6) and banishes coaches and parents who act like morons

 

[ClifSpliffy]

one of the best things aboot runnin a 5/6th grade hoop squad is that they're always all the same knuckleheads, regardless of whether it's
ur first team, or the last one of that age group that u coached.
pretty fun and funny, actually.
1. constant babble on fart jokes, and goofy sex parodie quips aboot whatever enters their brain at that moment,
2. aping, mocking, and impersonating the coach, when they think that he/she ain't around. my fav. i've been fortunate to catch that act many times. hard not to laugh as it's going down, too. ('coach ain't around!') wrongo, buttbreaths. i found that the best, and easist way to make it really worthwhile for all, is to just let them breathe. and laugh. one time, this kid who was always edging to be heard, led off the impersonating coach session. of course. he did a shtick like 'look at me. im coach clif. im so pretty! more like coach furball - what's up with that beard?', and so on until he gets around to ripping on my jeans and their, um, being too snug?
'i can't fit in my pants! i say im a 34 but im actually a 54! i can't see my waist becuz my dopey beard get's in the way!' and so on. great speech by the kid, only interrupted periodically by fart jokes.
im still laughing thinking aboot it.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

He coaches both, so not so much lol.

Haha, I do, but the school wouldn’t let it fly having the kid play up. We have separate cohorts between 5/6 and 7/8 because of Covid. Either way, if I ever have a kid play up I always have them still play with their original team also.

For the 5/6 team, I like the idea of a 4 out, pass and cut offense with an added wrinkle to cut to the inside if your man is outside the perimeter. Kinda like a super simple motion offense whenever we need to play halfcourt offense.

I also wrote up a simple play where the the team stacks starting at the high post and then once they split it opens up space for a pick and roll between the 1 and the 5 where the 1 can pass back out to the trailing 5 if the layup isn’t there. One stack in bounds play and I’m good to go for the first game.

We’ll see…there’s a going away party for our IT guy after my first practice so a little alcohol can cure whatever headache that practice might cause. I’m just thankful I coach at a school where no one really cares if I go winless, as long as the kids learn and have fun.

Thanks for the help and entertainment.

 

[NJHusky]

I’m just thankful I coach at a school where no one really cares if I go winless, as long as the kids learn and have fun.

When did you start coaching at Syracuse?

 

[Hey Adrien!]

When did you start coaching at Syracuse?

I don't. My kids learn how to play D.

 

[Chin Diesel]

-So, the 5th-6th grade team is a loss for the year. Accept that. I'd try to find the 2 or 3 "best" athletes on the team and try to see what I could do with them.
-Work on 2-3 offensive plays all season and see if you can make any progress with them on those plays.
-If the kids are mostly new to the sport, the parents will realize it not just about their kid but the other kids on the team as well. Parents will be fine as long as they see you putting forth effort and encouraging their kids.
-Use this as a farm system for the 7th/8th grade team. If possible, have the 5th/6th graders stick around to watch the older kids practice and play. Give the younger players something to see and link what you are trying to do with them.
-Don't capitulate to the star player or his parents. You will never please them and you will lose the rest of the parents. Difference between a team and a program. A team may have ups and downs based on a bunch of circumstances. The program is all you.
-Try to have fun and learn a bit about each kid each time you are with the team.
-For yourself, you're learning about the windshield and the bug.

 

[dennismenace]

Spend time teaching them good fundamentals. The reasons why things are done the way they are. I taught and directed grammar school and early high school kids in rel. ed. for a number of years and developmentally they have pretty good reasoning skills by seventh grade. Emotionally they are all over the place LOL. We used to like to call them little lawyers because they enjoyed debating things so much. When you make your points they will find it hard to rebel if you explain the logic of why you are teaching them this way. Don't forget about conditioning and why being in good shape or better than your opponent means you can wear the opponent down as the game goes on. This gives them personal confidence. I agree with this being fun. Nothing worse than seeing a freshman hs coach screaming on the sideline at the refs and everyone like he's the next HOF college coach.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Nothing worse than seeing a freshman hs coach screaming on the sideline at the refs and everyone like he's the next HOF college coach.

I totally agree with this. I think I told this story already on the Boneyard, but there's this great FCIAC ref named Bill who does a lot of our games.

My 7/8 team was playing a team whose coach is always screaming at his players, arguing calls and that culture infected his players too...they all looked miserable.

During one of the games, the ref walks over to me and jokes what's the deal with this coach? No offense to you, but you [bleepin] coach middle school.

 

[the Q]

Spend time teaching them good fundamentals. The reasons why things are done the way they are. I taught and directed grammar school and early high school kids in rel. ed. for a number of years and developmentally they have pretty good reasoning skills by seventh grade. Emotionally they are all over the place LOL. We used to like to call them little lawyers because they enjoyed debating things so much. When you make your points they will find it hard to rebel if you explain the logic of why you are teaching them this way. Don't forget about conditioning and why being in good shape or better than your opponent means you can wear the opponent down as the game goes on. This gives them personal confidence. I agree with this being fun. Nothing worse than seeing a freshman hs coach screaming on the sideline at the refs and everyone like he's the next HOF college coach.

I totally agree with this. I think I told this story already on the Boneyard, but there's this great FCIAC ref named Bill who does a lot of our games.

My 7/8 team was playing a team whose coach is always screaming at his players, arguing calls and that culture infected his players too...they all looked miserable.

During one of the games, the ref walks over to me and jokes what's the deal with this coach? No offense to you, but you [bleepin] coach middle school.

Try Reffing 5/6 Girls who can barely catch and dribble and still having this happen…

Every kid is going d1

Every coach is the next Jim/geno

It’s annoying as hell

Ps Rebecca lobo included lol

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Today, I had my first game of the season for the 5th/6th grade team.

Considering that we’ve had one practice in five weeks and only three of my seventeen players have ever played an organized game of basketball, I made the call to invite all seventeen to today’s game.

So glad I did this. Every student got at least 10 minutes of PT and got to use the game to go over a ton of higher level stuff we haven’t had time to practice: most impressively some kids really picked up on help D. Final score was 26-8, no surprise, but happy to have had everyone on the court today. Our opponents played a 2-3 zone and four of their players so close to six feet, so my guys were stuck mostly trying to hit jumpers, oh well.

My 7th/8th grade team plays tomorrow, so we’ll see how that goes. I only have 11 players and I coached all of them when they were 5th/6th graders, so obviously they are further along understanding what to do. Most importantly, it’s a great group of kids who work their butts off.

 

[Umami Zen]

Today, I had my first game of the season for the 5th/6th grade team.

Considering that we’ve had one practice in five weeks and only three of my seventeen players have ever played an organized game of basketball, I made the call to invite all seventeen to today’s game.

So glad I did this. Every student got at least 10 minutes of PT and got to use the game to go over a ton of higher level stuff we haven’t had time to practice: most impressively some kids really picked up on help D. Final score was 26-8, no surprise, but happy to have had everyone on the court today. Our opponents played a 2-3 zone and four of their players so close to six feet, so my guys were stuck mostly trying to hit jumpers, oh well.

My 7th/8th grade team plays tomorrow, so we’ll see how that goes. I only have 11 players and I coached all of them when they were 5th/6th graders, so obviously they are further along understanding what to do. Most importantly, it’s a great group of kids who work their butts off.

Coach--Just give them a positive experience.. Teach them the rules/fundamentals and protocol of the game.. Help them be winners through their attitude. What else can you do unless your team is loaded with studs??