Changing the way the game is played... something for A'ja to think about

[EricLA]

I was talking to Milford about this last night and got to thinking. It seems that the most successful basketball teams have been changing. I am by no means a hoops historian, but...

With regards to A'ja, she has indicated she does not want to play the 5. That has led some to believe it means she wants to be on a team that has a true 5 like Desouza, or Leslie, or Charles or Fowles - strong back to the basket types with limited mid range games (not sure where Griner fits in as she's truly one of a kind). On the men's side, in the "old" days, you had guys like Kareem, Shaq, and a variety of other tall center types.

But who has won the NBA title the past 5-6 years? Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles, Boston. The runner ups? San Antonio, OKC, Boston and Miami. Who plays the 5 for those teams?

Miami - Chris Bosch
Dallas - Dirk Novitski
LA - Gasol
Boston - Garnett
San Antonio - Duncan
OKC - Perkins

Of all those teams, the ONLY one who is really a back to the basket center with a really limited mid range game is Perkins. The rest of them have a variety of mid range to even 3 point games as well as the ability to put the ball on the floor and utilize great post moves.

It's been mentioned on the men's board that Ollie is modeling his current UCONN team, and going forward as well, after models of quicker and more athletic players who can play a variety of positions and not rely on the 1,2,3,4,5 slots as they historically existed.

Sound familiar? Look at the WNBA. The Lynx won the championship with 6'2" center Janelle McCarville. 2 years ago they won it with Taj, also 6'2". Neither could be back to the basket centers because they were too small to score that way.

Look at the teams who were successful this year - LA has Ogwumike and Parker in the post. Clearly Parker is not a true center. Indiana has Catch and Larkins in the post (Larkins is 6'1"). Minny has Brunson and McCarville. Phx does have Griner, Chicago does have Fowles, and Atlanta does have Desouza, but my point is having a talented true 5 is not the only way to win, in fact, it's the smaller teams who have won the title recently.

I'm sure there are others who could put together better stats or figures, but my point is - having forwards like Stewart and Wilson roaming the post together is tailor made for multiple NCAA championships with neither spending an in ordinate amount of time in the post. Geno is the master of creating winning teams based on the strengths of his best players. I hope A'ja really considers that as she makes her decisions.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Great post...right on target Eric.

 

[Kibitzer]

So now you are telling me that we can't use those 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 designations as a matter of bb gospel? Reinforces a recent article on ESPN to the effect that designating players as guards, centers, and forwards is obsolete.

Gee, it's amazing what can be learned right here, on line.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

great post Eric.

And I agree. The greatest WCBB team of all time only had players at 6-2 (Cash, Williams, & Jones).

WCBB is evolving and Parker was evident of that and now Stewart. A'ja can right in that mold of player.

 

[Phil]

It may also be useful to distinguish offense from defense. It is pretty well-known, and if it wasn't, it is easy enough to explain, that UConn doesn't have to play with a traditional 5 on offense. The examples given should be sufficient to prove that. However, when a player says she doesn't want to be a 5, is she saying that about offense, or defense, or both?

If offense, problem solved.

However, just because we play with a motion offense, in which a camp near the paint and wait for the entry pass type of player is not an option, we cannot totally dictate how our opponents play (yes, I know one of our goals is to disrupt what they want to do, but that's different.)

If an opponent wants to put their 6' 5" center near the key, while the rest of the offense works on a way to get the ball to her, someone is going to have to defend. What if A'ja is saying that's the type of play that doesn't interest her; she'd rather be chasing a wing player all over the court.

If that is her concern, we cannot simply point out that we don;t have such a thing as a 5 on offense, we need to address her concerns about defensive assignments.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

An undersized, athletic forward / post player can certainly be effective, and in the larger world your post players also have mid-range and 3 point games. Lauren Jackson style anyone (I know she's not undersized)?

But having someone with height - 6'4" or more, really opens up the game, whether or not they are playing the traditional post or defending an opponents post as Eric references, or just giving an advantage in rebounds, etc.

I would suggest that a difference to the men's game is that everyone (pretty much) in the men's game can dunk, leap higher than most women and the tall players that are not centers are still all taller than most women players. I think this also affects the way the game is played.

I agree with the principle point (game changing) just massaging the idea a bit.

 

[EricLA]

It may also be useful to distinguish offense from defense. It is pretty well-known, and if it wasn't, it is easy enough to explain, that UConn doesn't have to play with a traditional 5 on offense. The examples given should be sufficient to prove that. However, when a player says she doesn't want to be a 5, is she saying that about offense, or defense, or both?

If offense, problem solved.

However, just because we play with a motion offense, in which a camp near the paint and wait for the entry pass type of player is not an option, we cannot totally dictate how our opponents play (yes, I know one of our goals is to disrupt what they want to do, but that's different.)

If an opponent wants to put their 6' 5" center near the key, while the rest of the offense works on a way to get the ball to her, someone is going to have to defend. What if A'ja is saying that's the type of play that doesn't interest her; she'd rather be chasing a wing player all over the court.

If that is her concern, we cannot simply point out that we don;t have such a thing as a 5 on offense, we need to address her concerns about defensive assignments.

Great point. Not much to argue on defense - if we are playing man to man, someone will have to guard the 6'4"-6'5" center on the other team in the post.

 

[Kibitzer]

Great point. Not much to argue on defense - if we are playing man to man, someone will have to guard the 6'4"-6'5" center on the other team in the post.

I can't fault your unassailable logic. Reminds me of TonyC stating that the players who don't start will come off the bench.

 

[Wonkster]

I can't fault your unassailable logic. Reminds me of TonyC stating that the players who don't start will come off the bench.

Except those glued to it.

 

[ciarlante]

Wilson is most effective in the post..period..she is not Stewart or Delle Donne or whoever she wants to emulate..

 

[UConnCat]

Wilson is most effective in the post..period..she is not Stewart or Delle Donne or whoever she wants to emulate..

I agree but she's hearing a completely different message from her AAU coach:

"I have know A'ja since she was 12 years old and A'ja, I played her at the 1 (point guard), 2 (shooting guard) and 3 (small forward). I thought the USA team hurt her game because they only had her play by the basket and when I had her during the summer, I had her playing the 2. I missed having her the whole July because she was with a USA team and they had her playing the 4 and 5, I had her playing the 1, 2 and 3. It helped because she got the experience but it hurt because the other girls shot the 3's and took players to the basket, that part of the game she didn't even display and that is the best part of her game. "

 

[UCONNfan1]

Well it's pretty clear from her coach's comments that she want's no part of seeing A'ja play the 4 or 5. If A'ja is hearing that every day, and being told by teams like Tennessee and UNC who are recruiting her that they are stocked up at the 4 and 5 spots, then I doubt she chooses UCONN.

Who knows, though. UCONN runs such a fluid motion offense that I think she would be ridiculously successful in Storrs. But, if many people she trusts are telling her otherwise, it will make nabbing her that much more difficult.

 

[LadyVolFan]

I agree with you guys, I just can't see Wilson playing on the perimeter in college. She still does not have the skills Parker did at her age and Parker did not play on the perimeter in college. She played the 4 for the most part and this is where she belongs. Even as a pro Candace belongs around the basket and not on the perimeter - which she seemed to forget during the WNBA season at times.
With that being said, I think Wilson ends up at UConn or SC. South Carolina because of the proximity to home and the lure of Staley. UConn due to recent domination, potential of multiple NTs, and roster slots available.

 

[Icebear]

Wilson is most effective in the post..period..she is not Stewart or Delle Donne or whoever she wants to emulate..

That is not what her coach says.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I noticed how Eric picked up instant credibility by dropping my name. Or not!

I think that teams with static, limited post-up centers are too easy to defend. Versatility seems to be a huge key.

I think that A'ja should try to do what Stewie is doing--play outside and inside. If she plays only outside, she partially negates her height advantage.

 

[Icebear]

I noticed how Eric picked up instant credibility by dropping my name. Or not!

I think that teams with static, limited post-up centers are too easy to defend. Versatility seems to be a huge key.

I think that A'ja should try to do what Stewie is doing--play outside and inside. If she plays only outside, she partially negates her height advantage.

And that IS how Geno will use her.

 

[UcMiami]

Not sure how much of Wilson's games people have seen - based on the USA basketball stuff, I can't evaluate her perimeter skills because she didn't get much chance to play out there in those games - she was pretty much locked into the 15' and in area on offense. So I take her coaches evaluation as better than what my own eyes have seen - but if others have seen significant footage of her HS or AAU play I will defer to them.
On post play - one of the reasons you see so many mobile centers with mid-range and further games is that there just aren't that many women with the body type and ability to play the pure low post center role. Stef is pretty close to a pure post, though she has a really soft touch on her jumper so Geno has worked that into her game as well and it has become a bigger part of her game each year. The days of the lump of meat that could only shoot from 8 feet in are probably gone - they left the men's game a long time ago and with women becoming better and more skilled athletes they are disappearing from the women's game as well. Every once and a while you still get a mountain of a post with no jump shot but they are pretty rare - C. Paris and Shaq come to mind as the recent examples that were so physically dominant from 8 feet in that they didn't need anything else.
And I agree on the defensive aspect of still needing more of a true center player - someone with the lower body strength to stop tall players just backing down their defender - that has less to do with height than strength which is why Graves was so impressive for USA this summer and players like Kelly can Maya could defend well down low even when significantly shorter than the offensive players. Of the underclassmen at Uconn Tuck is the only one at present that fits that mold.

 

[Alexmia]

Except those glued to it.

Most of the players who are glued to the bench are there because Geno put the glue down. If you don't work hard you WILL find yourself glued to the bench.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Most of the players who are glued to the bench are there because Geno put the glue down. If you don't work hard you WILL find yourself glued to the bench.

This gives a new meaning to the term "glue players."

 

[Tonyc]

I see Wilson Stewart and Tuck working much like Swin Tamika and Aja did. Interchangable pieces of Genos puzzle only bigger and stronger. Aja will play like Tuck and Stewart do now. Inside out rebound run, run the break and play defense. It will be fun. Some teams still play a center/post player. Geno not so much although he has Stef who is a terrific post player and who is a great passer . Looking at UConn you have a lot of guard like players who are interchangeable. Aja would fit right into Genos plan. Other teams are looking for bigs who can play the middle . UConn already has quite a few. For Aja imo going to a team that does not have a post player will make there that type player. Lets face it. There is no better place for a big to be developed then UConn. If you don't think so, compare the freshman years and senior years of Kara Wolters, Jessica Moore, Tina Charles, Stef Dolsen, and now look at Breanna Stewart beginning last season and ending last season. Aja would become an Olympian and more.

 

[dakotaboy]

This Aja girl is still in High School and she's already making with the "I don't want to do that". She might be an awesome baller, but that doesn't sound like a team player. She's got DIVA written all over her. She wouldn't fit into Uconn with that attitude. Sounds like she'd rather go to a school that will cater to her wishes, rather than making her better.

I read comments somewhere about how she wasn't utilized properly on the USA team. Maybe it's her current coach that's putting all this nonsense into her head, who knows. At the end of the day, you would think she would want to perfect every area of her game, but time will tell.

So if this is her true attitude, then I hope she doesn't pick Uconn. We don't need any poisoned apples. You NEVER heard Kelly Faris tell Geno "I don't want to play the 4, make Stef do it all". And she was 5'11" holding her own.

LOL

 

[Icebear]

Actually, much of that was based on an old article and not from her most recent experiences with USA basketball. It is her coach who expressed disappointment with the way USA Basketball used her. She appears to be a great kid and appreciates the opportunities she has had to play with UCONN players.

 

[UcMiami]

Dakota - I don't think a player stating her preferred style of play or her preference of position prior to selecting a college is that big a deal - I am looking for a free wheeling offense, or a run and gun style, because I think that plays to my strengths is not an uncommon statement. Nor is saying I am not a traditional low post center and so I need to find a team/coach that does not lock me up down low. These kids are sixteen/seventeen years old and may not be as media adroit as they will become as they mature so some statements are maybe less well phrased than others. Those kinds of preferences are not the same in my mind as 'I want to be a starter my freshman year' or 'I need a guarantee of minutes'.

 

[dakotaboy]

Dakota - I don't think a player stating her preferred style of play or her preference of position prior to selecting a college is that big a deal - I am looking for a free wheeling offense, or a run and gun style, because I think that plays to my strengths is not an uncommon statement. Nor is saying I am not a traditional low post center and so I need to find a team/coach that does not lock me up down low. These kids are sixteen/seventeen years old and may not be as media adroit as they will become as they mature so some statements are maybe less well phrased than others. Those kinds of preferences are not the same in my mind as 'I want to be a starter my freshman year' or 'I need a guarantee of minutes'.

That's great that you feel that way... That's your opinion, just as I had My opinion.

I wasn't referring to a "Style of Play", I was referring to using negative comments such as "I don't want to play in the post". That's hardly stating a preferred style of play.

As I stated above, I don't know if this is who this person is, BUT (and there's a BUT) if that is truly how she is, then I'd rather see her go to another school, because not wanting to give yourself freely to the team concept is selfish.

Again, I'm not saying that Aja is any of these things, IN MY OPINION, I feel that is she was any of those things, that Uconn would be better off without her.

If we're not allowed to post opinions on this board, then please tell me and I'll stop...

 

[Icebear]

As I said that was an old comment. Nothing recent.

So, basically, what you are admitting is you don't know if anything you are saying is true but you said it anyway. Given that Geno and staff are pursuing A'ja with persistence you might be better off assuming you are wrong. Since she made that comment she has willingly played significant minutes for USA Basketball including minutes in the post.

Post want you want but don't expect others to simply take your word for it.