Caroline Ducharme and Saylor: How Do They Compare, and Where Do They Fit?

[JoePgh]

Ordinarily, I prefer to abstain from commenting too much on recruits or prospects until they actually show up and play, but since we still have several days until the next game, let me raise this subject.

For those who follow high school players more than I do, how would you compare Caroline Ducharme and Saylor Poffenbarger as basketball players? What are their relative strengths and weaknesses? How do they compare to past or present UConn players?

I am imagining that either or both of them could be somewhat similar to Anne Strother or Katie Lou, or for that matter Anna Makurat on the current team. That is, they are fairly big guards / wings who are good shooters, can handle the ball and rebound competently but not spectacularly well, and are basketball-smart and coachable. I don't get the sense that either of them is fleet afoot, or that either of them has great hops. They are not going to play defense or block shots in a way that will remind you of Tiffany Hayes, Kalana Greene or Napheesa.

Another way of thinking about it (??) is that if Aubrey and Mir represent one kind of player -- amazing athletes who are challenged to play within a system or shoot from distance -- then Caroline Ducharme and Saylor are almost their exact opposites -- "pretty good" athletes who can shoot and play well within a system, but who are not going to make many highlight reel plays in the paint.

I still don't have a picture of how Caroline Ducharme and Saylor differ from each other, or what their individual contributions are likely to be. For that matter, even after seeing them live, I'm not sure that I see how Aubrey and Mir differ that much from each other, or what their individual contributions might be. I think Mir is bigger and stronger than Aubrey and is likely to contend more successfully in the paint with burly post players, but Aubrey appears to be faster and more comfortable moving to the basket from 15 feet away and getting a shot or a foul as a result.

Can someone who has seen Caroline Ducharme or Saylor in person or on film provide more details about their game(s)?

 

[MilfordHusky]

I've seen Saylor in person 3x and Caroline on video in several highlights and a couple of complete games.

I thought and still think that they are very similar. Extremely similar, in fact. Both had/have guard skills and had fairly recent growth spurts (9th-10th grade) and are now 6'2". In addition to being the same height and having similar builds, their games are quite similar in that they both do everything well. Saylor plays in a relatively low-level conference in high school and literally plays positions 1-5. She jumps center, plays in the post on defense, and brings the ball up the floor. She had a triple-double late last season. She does everything well: defense, shot-blocking, passing, ball-handling, and shooting from all over the floor. Her form on FTs is very good. Her 3-point percentage is decent and she shoots from 20-25', as does Caroline. Saylor could improve her left hand, especially on layups, as she tends to shoot them using her right hand, regardless of the side of the basket, but does so quite effectively. She has no appreciable weakness. She's highly versatile, plays hard, and has a good hoops IQ. One thing Saylor does very well is to play "free safety" when her team presses--any pass that's in the air more than 2 seconds winds up being a steal and a likely hoop for Middletown. Her instincts and anticipation are excellent, and she's long and can leap. She'll fit nicely into a full-court press.

Finding differences between Saylor and Caroline seems like an exercise in splitting hairs. I should note that Caroline had a knee injury and recovered very well. In recent play, she has drawn rave reviews and "blown up." Some ranking services have her in the top 5. I think HG moved her from #31 to #5, or something like that. Saylor, in contrast, was rehabbing from post-season hip surgery during the spring and summer, so she didn't play for months. Perhaps as a result, she slipped to HG #30. I suspect both belong about #5 and #15. The recent info on Caroline suggests she's an elite shooter. Previously, I would have rated both her and Saylor as "very good" shooters. Caroline may now be in the "great" category. I'll be interested in seeing how her shooting compares with Azzi's, because Azzi is in the "Curry/Thompson" category that Geno mentioned recently. So, Saylor's advantage over Caroline is that she seems a little stronger; Caroline's advantage may be that she is an even better shooter.

In terms of the fit, I think both Saylor and Caroline can play the 2, 3, or 4. Geno has already said that Saylor can fill in at multiple positions. He also mentioned Caroline's versatility.

I'll see Saylor if Middletown has a season and games are open to the public (and the same for Azzi). I'm looking forward to seeing all 3 plus Amari in Storrs in 5-8 months.

I believe that both Saylor and Caroline were their respective State's Gatorade POY as juniors.

 

[cbraarj]

It would be nice if those two shoot as well or above average from long distance. Azzi is already there!

 

[eebmg]

Here is a podcast evaluating the 2021 class by Shane Laflin who is director of the Premier Basketball Report. As such Laflin provides evaluations and rankings for ESPN HoopGurlz. whose ranking evaluation

No. 1 Azzi Fudd
No. 5 Caroline Ducharme
No. 15 Amari DeBerry
No. 30 Saylor Poffenbarger

National recruiting director joins UConn women's podcast

National recruiting director Shane Laflin evaluates the 2021 class, UConn’s 2022...

www.ctpost.com

The main language he uses in discussing (and differentiating between Caroline and Saylor) is that Caroline is a "Killer" (Sounds like a KLS type with a head start on driving to the basket) while Saylor is an elite level and versatile role player like Kelly Faris (maybe not with the Defense?)

 

[oldhusky]

Wow I have only seen video, but quite a bit of it, and I think the analysis so far seems very very similar to mine. So the only thing I will add is while both players could be considered 2-4, I think Carolyn is more 2-3 who could be used some at the 4, and Saylor is more 3-4 that could be used some at the 2.

The analogy with Mir/Aubrey is also very good. Those players and these two recruits are very similar to each other and very different from the other group. That gives Geno a variety of tools and skills to use depending on the situation. It also means long term maybe only one from Mir/Aubrey and one from Carolyn/Saylor survives.

 

[JoePgh]

For those of you who have responded, and anyone else who has seen video or in-person, how does either Caroline Ducharme or Saylor compare to Anna? Better 33-point shooters? Faster? Better defense? Smarter? Less prone to nervousness that affects their play?

 

[MdStang]

Anna was a 40 percent 3 point shooter last year, so I assume you are only looking at this year for reference. I believe Carolyn has the potential over her career to be a better shooter. Saylor has great range but can be streaky.

I think Anna is a better passer than either recruit but Saylor isn't far behind. If you want a predictor of how Saylor can play with elite talent look at the stats for the 2019 USA Basketball Women's U16 National Team: Saylor averaged 7.2 points, 4.3 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game coming off the bench.

From what I've seen both recruits are physically and mentally tough and great team mates.

 

[jcoton56]

I have only seen video, but it seems what Geno is trying to build is a squad of depth that can play stout defense. A team which can score from all 5 positions and make the opposition guard the entire court, and can rotate at least 3 players in and out to prevent foul trouble injury effects or cumulative fatigue as the season plays out. At present we play a fair defense but we seem to be able to score from 3 positions with some regularity. We will improve this season and with the incoming class all of our issues should be solvable.

 

[Bigboote]

So, Saylor's advantage over Caroline is that she seems a little stronger; Caroline's advantage may be that she is an even better shooter.

To just tweak Milford's excellent summary: I've only seen their games and highlights online, but I'd say that Saylor is very comfortable mixing it up in the lane on both offense and defense. She doesn't shy away from contact. She's also tough as nails, having played through almost an entire season with a torn labrum (I think) in her hip. I see both her and Caroline filling in in multiple positions, but Saylor maybe more as stretch-4 and wing and Caroline more as a wing-guard.

I think Geno will have a lot of fun the next few years with so many versatile puzzle pieces. Both of these kids are team players, and Saylor is a coach's kid -- recall the posts during the summer about her coaching her team.

 

[BobbyJ]

For those of you who have responded, and anyone else who has seen video or in-person, how does either Caroline Ducharme or Saylor compare to Anna? Better 33-point shooters? Faster? Better defense? Smarter? Less prone to nervousness that affects their play?

IMO, both will be better all around, less hesitant, and will be able to drive and get off shots in traffic. Also more aggressive on defense. As for nervousness, both look to have different, more aggressive mindsets and will be less likely to let it affect their play.

 

[DEpup]

I love the recruiting of these two to add versatility at the wing. I agree with folks who say they are versatile wings but the great part is their versatility goes in opposite directions. Caroline to the guard and Saylor to the forward.

They also bring versatility within versatility since Aubrey and Mir are on the offensive 2pt side of their 3pt side.

Why wouldn't you want Ann Strother/KLS as an option and then to play with an opponent's mind and switch to a Willnet Crocket/Kalena Greene option all of the sudden.

So that's a killer middle group and then surround that with Paige, Nika, Anna, and Azzi on one side and Aaliyah, deBerry, and Ice on the other in the next few years. This team is going to be scary and I didn't even mention the development players there now and those still to be recruited.

I feel like this is going to be bad for basketball on steroids. Yay.

 

[huskyd]

I think of what the current team lacks when speculating on what we'll have coming in as upgrades. Right now we miss reliable 3-point shooting, which is causing the area under the basket to clog up with defenders trying to stop Liv. Next season Azzi will start next to Paige (what a dream prospect!) and provide a great scoring option. While Buckets can shoot 3's, that's not her game, but she can provide grief for opponents from outside if she needs to. No more clogging the middle. The question is what happens to Christyn and Ania? I think both Evina and Ania sit, providing excellent sub-ins. Williams will probably start. If she's going well, she'll be a fixture. Then we have these tall drinks coming in to vie with Aaliyah. Right now Aaliyah is a premier rebounder who can score in close. She's a big body who seems fearless. I don't see either Saylor or Caroline starting their first year, but their best best for playing time will be taking Christyn's spot and/or subbing in at guard. Their opportunity will be based on how well they can shoot.
You all mentioned Mir and Aubrey, but I don't see much play time for either. Nika can't shoot, so will sit. Next year seems all win-win.

 

[EricLA]

Here is a podcast evaluating the 2021 class by Shane Laflin who is director of the Premier Basketball Report. As such Laflin provides evaluations and rankings for ESPN HoopGurlz. whose ranking evaluation

No. 1 Azzi Fudd
No. 5 Caroline Ducharme
No. 15 Amari DeBerry
No. 30 Saylor Poffenbarger

National recruiting director joins UConn women's podcast

National recruiting director Shane Laflin evaluates the 2021 class, UConn’s 2022...

www.ctpost.com

The main language he uses in discussing (and differentiating between Caroline and Saylor) is that Caroline is a "Killer" (Sounds like a KLS type with a head start on driving to the basket) while Saylor is an elite level and versatile role player like Kelly Faris (maybe not with the Defense?)

Most everyone goes off HG ESPN's ranking because it's free and the most easily and readily accessible. However, Amari is rated by no less than 5 other services, and not a single one has her lower than 8. 2 have her at #3 and 2 at #4. Her composite ranking is 6.

Just for kicks, I'll list the average composite ranking for each recruit, which IMHO is much more accurate than just HG...

Azzi: #1 - across the board
Amari: #6
Caroline #10
Saylor #17

Certainly not as impressive as Sue, Tamika, Swin and Ashja (We could count Kiersten but she was so injured she barely played). But I would say it's probably the 3rd best recruiting class we've ever had - behind TASS and Stewie, Morgan, Moriah.

By the way some services have Caroline as high as #5 and Saylor as high as #6. ESPN does not have us with the #1 class, but it's clearly #1 if you look at the composite average. For example, Prospects Nation has SC with 2 in the top 10, Johnson at 13, and Hall at 55. Prep Girls Hoops has 3 for UCONN in the top 10 (Saylor at #9 oddly and Caroline at #15), but only has 2 SC recruits in the top 10. The other 2 are #20 and 40.

I don't have the exact numbers, but from perusing and calculating a tiny bit in my head, it looks like SC has about #3, 8, 15 and 25 composite, give or take. Obviously how they develop is anyone's guess at this point. Each kid could be better or worse than their ratings, but on paper UCONN's class is easily the best...

 

[JellyBean]

I have only seen their games or a few highlights on YouTube. I can't really say how they compare and how they will fit in because there are so many things to consider, biggest among those is competitive fire. Hopefully they have that drive.

 

[NewCorn]

Most everyone goes off HG ESPN's ranking because it's free and the most easily and readily accessible. However, Amari is rated by no less than 5 other services, and not a single one has her lower than 8. 2 have her at #3 and 2 at #4. Her composite ranking is 6.

Just for kicks, I'll list the average composite ranking for each recruit, which IMHO is much more accurate than just HG...

Azzi: #1 - across the board
Amari: #6
Caroline #10
Saylor #17

Certainly not as impressive as Sue, Tamika, Swin and Ashja (We could count Kiersten but she was so injured she barely played). But I would say it's probably the 3rd best recruiting class we've ever had - behind TASS and Stewie, Morgan, Moriah.

By the way some services have Caroline as high as #5 and Saylor as high as #6. ESPN does not have us with the #1 class, but it's clearly #1 if you look at the composite average. For example, Prospects Nation has SC with 2 in the top 10, Johnson at 13, and Hall at 55. Prep Girls Hoops has 3 for UCONN in the top 10 (Saylor at #9 oddly and Caroline at #15), but only has 2 SC recruits in the top 10. The other 2 are #20 and 40.

I don't have the exact numbers, but from perusing and calculating a tiny bit in my head, it looks like SC has about #3, 8, 15 and 25 composite, give or take. Obviously how they develop is anyone's guess at this point. Each kid could be better or worse than their ratings, but on paper UCONN's class is easily the best...

Thank you, EricLA, great information.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I have only seen their games or a few highlights on YouTube. I can't really say how they compare and how they will fit in because there are so many things to consider, biggest among those is competitive fire. Hopefully they have that drive.

Azzi reminds me of Sue in many ways. She is calm and articulate. She isn't emotional on the court, but she is a stone cold killer. She wants to be better than Paige.

Saylor is an emotional player. I like her fire.

 

[dtbtbtb]

I really liked Saylor in the U16. she came of the bench but was very aggressive, tough and a real good defender.

 

[MdStang]

Saylor update: All Frederick County winter sports have suspended in person practice due to a spike in Covid metrics. The metrics will need to improve before practices can resume so the start of the HS season (Jan. 19) will probably be affected.

 

[Cuango]

I am so happy with next year’s incoming recruits! I keep reading about how good Azzi is and how everyone says she is better than Paige. While I hope that is true, I’m afraid I’m going to have to wait and see that for myself when she (Azzi) gets to Storrs. It’s very hard to believe that we are going to have two consecutive players as good (or better) than Paige. She (Paige) has completely blown me away with her level of play! The scary thing is that I don’t even think she is playing her best yet. If Azzi turns out to be better, or even equal to Paige, we are going to be in basketball heaven for the next 4 years. PS Don’t forget Caroline! She appears to be a gifted shooter as well!

 

[Jingo]

I am so happy with next year’s incoming recruits! I keep reading about how good Azzi is and how everyone says she is better than Paige. While I hope that is true, I’m afraid I’m going to have to wait and see that for myself when she (Azzi) gets to Storrs. It’s very hard to believe that we are going to have two consecutive players as good (or better) than Paige. She (Paige) has completely blown me away with her level of play! The scary thing is that I don’t even think she is playing her best yet. If Azzi turns out to be better, or even equal to Paige, we are going to be in basketball heaven for the next 4 years. PS Don’t forget Caroline! She appears to be a gifted shooter as well!

Forwards/centers are just as important [if not more so] than guards in winning a NC, eh?

 

[Blueballer]

Caroline Ducharme? Really? I'm getting old. I can't keep up wityh this shorthand.

 

[tchalla1]

I am so happy with next year’s incoming recruits! I keep reading about how good Azzi is and how everyone says she is better than Paige. While I hope that is true, I’m afraid I’m going to have to wait and see that for myself when she (Azzi) gets to Storrs. It’s very hard to believe that we are going to have two consecutive players as good (or better) than Paige. She (Paige) has completely blown me away with her level of play! The scary thing is that I don’t even think she is playing her best yet. If Azzi turns out to be better, or even equal to Paige, we are going to be in basketball heaven for the next 4 years. PS Don’t forget Caroline! She appears to be a gifted shooter as well!

It's difficult to compare Azzi and Paige because they play distinctly different positions and have different games and skill sets---Paige of course is a consummate PG and Azzi is a a drop dead killer 2 guard. They will immensely compliment the other's game and seem to be perfectly matched for one another. Let's just say Paige is better at her game and Azzi is better at her game...

 

[RockyMTblue2]

“Paige is a really, really good 3-point shooter,” Auriemma said. “So if you have a really good 3-point shooter that won’t shoot or is thinking pass-first, that’s great provided the other guys that you’re passing to are Klay Thompson and Steph Curry.”

If you think she's not a really, really good 3 point shooter argue with that guy.

Yeah, I'm responding to one of you above.

She and Azzi would have 100 shot 3 point contests that were really competitive. Don't confuse don't have it with don't use it much.

 

[NormanDale]

Forwards/centers are just as important [if not more so] than guards in winning a NC, eh?

Not in the college game. Good guard play usually beats good post play, the reason being is that guards have the ball in their hands far more. A guard can create for themselves as well as others, where a post has to rely on a guard to get them the ball in a spot they can do damage.

 

[Alydar]

I am so happy with next year’s incoming recruits! I keep reading about how good Azzi is and how everyone says she is better than Paige. While I hope that is true, I’m afraid I’m going to have to wait and see that for myself when she (Azzi) gets to Storrs. It’s very hard to believe that we are going to have two consecutive players as good (or better) than Paige. She (Paige) has completely blown me away with her level of play! The scary thing is that I don’t even think she is playing her best yet. If Azzi turns out to be better, or even equal to Paige, we are going to be in basketball heaven for the next 4 years. PS Don’t forget Caroline! She appears to be a gifted shooter as well!

I ordered my harp when Azzi announced.