Can we put to rest

[msf22b]

The unsubstaintiated assumption that Katie Lou was missing in the first quarter becomes of the smothering and physical SC defense...

On replay, she is just missing shots she usually makes including at least 2 gimmie's in the opening moments of the 1st quarter (which I am watching for the first time)

Gabby and Pheesa , on the other hand...

 

[CocoHusky]

 

[BroadwayVa]

The unsubstaintiated assumption that Katie Lou was missing in the first quarter becomes of the smothering and physical SC defense...

On replay, she is just missing shots she usually makes including at least 2 gimmie's in the opening moments of the 1st quarter (which I am watching for the first time)

Gabby and Pheesa , on the other hand...

I missed the whole first quarter---pre-empted by another WBB game. Where did you get that first quarter--??
The defense on KLS after the first quarter was tight and tough and physical. I therefore believe her scoring was not ONLY caused by illness or other non defense effect--but obviously defense had an impact--I'm not sure KLS could answer the question --Which impacted your scoring ability more (assuming illness) illness or defense?? Dawn on the other hand would accept full responsibility for keeping KLS in check. Me a viewer--will have to view the full game 2 more times to make that assumption.

 

[CocoHusky]

I missed the whole first quarter---pre-empted by another WBB game. Where did you get that first quarter--??
The defense on KLS after the first quarter was tight and tough and physical. I therefore believe her scoring was not ONLY caused by illness or other non defense effect--but obviously defense had an impact--I'm not sure KLS could answer the question --Which impacted your scoring ability more (assuming illness) illness or defense?? Dawn on the other hand would accept full responsibility for keeping KLS in check. Me a viewer--will have to view the full game 2 more times to make that assumption.

KLS missed her first 4 shots. Two of the first 4 shot attempts were layups. The other two were wide open 3pt attempts that she just missed.

 

[Biff]

I missed the whole first quarter---pre-empted by another WBB game. Where did you get that first quarter--??

 

[BroadwayVa]

Thanks
I appreciate your effort for me to see that first quarter..

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Didn't realize thats what was being "said".

Im pretty impressed with this team that defeated South Carolina without its primary defender Kia Nurse and KLS missing open shots. Just my 2cents.

 

[PacoSwede]

...
The defense on KLS after the first quarter was tight and tough and physical. I therefore believe her scoring was not ONLY caused by illness or other non defense effect--but obviously defense had an impact--I'm not sure KLS could answer the question --Which impacted your scoring ability more (assuming illness) illness or defense?? ...

Or, maybe the defense was not exceptional or Lou was not under the weather and she just had off game shooting? It is possible, after all.

 

[tonehill68]

I sure hope so. Many people may not believe this but players have off games occasionally missing multiple open shots they usually make. Our UCONN ladies included.

 

[SVCBeercats]

The unsubstaintiated assumption that Katie Lou was missing in the first quarter becomes of the smothering and physical SC defense... On replay, she is just missing shots she usually makes including at least 2 gimmie's in the opening moments of the 1st quarter (which I am watching for the first time) Gabby and Pheesa , on the other hand...

I agree and disagree, both. I watched the first half and logged 21 events involving Samuelson. She missed two wide open threes, a wide open two, missed an easy layup, and missed two contested jumpers inside the arc. Contested in the sense the defender was right up on her. However, due to Samuelson's height and release point I don't see how her shot could be blocked. SC's ball denial defense was effective against Samuelson. In particular #10, Grey, was like the second coming of Gary "The Glove" Peyton. #3 and #52 helped a lot in first quarter. #10 was really good in 2nd qtr. Several times #10 followed Samuelson through multiple srcreens all over the court. Lots of hands on, bodying up, and simply stepping front of her to stop a cut or ruin the timing. #10 did her job. Give Samuelson credit she was moving a lot without the ball. I counted nine possessions where Samuelson was denied the ball. Four times Samuelson had to pass the ball. Then she had a TO. Another time she lost the ball but fought for it and passed out for an assist on a Dangerfield three. So yes she atypically missed some open shots. However, SC's defense should not be dismissed.

 

[BroadwayVa]

The unsubstaintiated assumption that Katie Lou was missing in the first quarter becomes of the smothering and physical SC defense...

On replay, she is just missing shots she usually makes including at least 2 gimmie's in the opening moments of the 1st quarter (which I am watching for the first time)

Gabby and Pheesa , on the other hand...[/QUOTEI
In my less than biased opinion--after getting the opportunity to see the first quarter (Thanks Biff)
It is my opinion--hell, it's a fact--NO ONE STOPPED KLS FROM SCORING OTHER THAN KLS..

 

[JordyG]

I agree and disagree, both. I watched the first half and logged 21 events involving Samuelson. She missed two wide open threes, a wide open two, missed an easy layup, and missed two contested jumpers inside the arc. Contested in the sense the defender was right up on her. However, due to Samuelson's height and release point I don't see how her shot could be blocked. SC's ball denial defense was effective against Samuelson. In particular #10, Grey, was like the second coming of Gary "The Glove" Peyton. #3 and #52 helped a lot in first quarter. #10 was really good in 2nd qtr. Several times #10 followed Samuelson through multiple srcreens all over the court. Lots of hands on, bodying up, and simply stepping front of her to stop a cut or ruin the timing. #10 did her job. Give Samuelson credit she was moving a lot without the ball. I counted nine possessions where Samuelson was denied the ball. Four times Samuelson had to pass the ball. Then she had a TO. Another time she lost the ball but fought for it and passed out for an assist on a Dangerfield three. So yes she atypically missed some open shots. However, SC's defense should not be dismissed.

That's pretty much how I saw it. However, even though the defense on her was tough after the 1st quarter she did score 6 points in the second half, and she did miss a nice little layup in the 2nd half. If she were successful in the first half on those wide open shots the game would have been a blowout, and she's have had a nice little 18 point game.

And welcome to the party.

 

[SVCBeercats]

That's pretty much how I saw it. However, even though the defense on her was tough after the 1st quarter she did score 6 points in the second half, and she did miss a nice little layup in the 2nd half. If she were successful in the first half on those wide open shots the game would have been a blowout, and she's have had a nice little 18 point game.

Despite what I wrote about SC's "D," there is something amiss with Samuelson's three point shooting. In the last four games her three point shooting was 6-29 or 20.7% (0-5, 3-6, 3-11, 0-7). This is less than half her normal 3pt%. However, her two point shooting for the same four games was 20-34 or 58.8% (2-7, 5-7, 5-7, 8-13).

And welcome to the party. Thank you!

 

[hoophuskee]

I missed the whole first quarter---pre-empted by another WBB game. Where did you get that first quarter--??
The defense on KLS after the first quarter was tight and tough and physical. I therefore believe her scoring was not ONLY caused by illness or other non defense effect--but obviously defense had an impact--I'm not sure KLS could answer the question --Which impacted your scoring ability more (assuming illness) illness or defense?? Dawn on the other hand would accept full responsibility for keeping KLS in check. Me a viewer--will have to view the full game 2 more times to make that assumption.

I can't recall everything. But if you look at what coco had to say about early shots-- I know on one play I think in 2nd half Lou missed a 3 and I sort of laughed at Doris's comment that it was the tough defense on that play. Look back at the play Doris makes this claim. And then notice how much space the SC player gave her. This wasn't like the 30 footer she took and Geno pulled her shortly thereafter (more than likely because of the 4 fouls he pulled her.). This shot she was given space by the SC defense and just missed the shot.

She is - as you suggest - missing more form 3. I know longer "expect" her shots from 3 to neccessarily go in. I've seen many misses lately. Hopefully there si nothing more to it than she is just missing.

 

[hoophuskee]

I agree and disagree, both. I watched the first half and logged 21 events involving Samuelson. She missed two wide open threes, a wide open two, missed an easy layup, and missed two contested jumpers inside the arc. Contested in the sense the defender was right up on her. However, due to Samuelson's height and release point I don't see how her shot could be blocked. SC's ball denial defense was effective against Samuelson. In particular #10, Grey, was like the second coming of Gary "The Glove" Peyton. #3 and #52 helped a lot in first quarter. #10 was really good in 2nd qtr. Several times #10 followed Samuelson through multiple srcreens all over the court. Lots of hands on, bodying up, and simply stepping front of her to stop a cut or ruin the timing. #10 did her job. Give Samuelson credit she was moving a lot without the ball. I counted nine possessions where Samuelson was denied the ball. Four times Samuelson had to pass the ball. Then she had a TO. Another time she lost the ball but fought for it and passed out for an assist on a Dangerfield three. So yes she atypically missed some open shots. However, SC's defense should not be dismissed.

But it shouldn't be credited for "shutting her down" i.e. they have some formula. (Last year it was so frustrating to hear "the formula" to beating UCONN was pound them in the paint.) Denial of the ball is nice and USC is amongst the top defensive teams. They are going to play good defense. However as Geno said - in the 2nd half they got what they wanted. If they want to "deny Lou the ball" while letting Gabby go at the slower bigs-- have at it. That's the beauty of this team. Anyone can be stopped to an extent if you focus enough on the 1 player and have the athletes. But with that said- look at the box score again and see how well Gabby and Collier did vs their much bigger counterparts. How much credit should be given ot their defense if a prime athlete that could have helped with "help-inside defense" and rebounding was too busy "denying the ball" at the wing "while Rome was burning in the paint?" Especially in the 2nd half.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2016-2017/021317.html

 

[UcMiami]

The unsubstaintiated assumption that Katie Lou was missing in the first quarter becomes of the smothering and physical SC defense.---

On replay, she is just missing shots she usually makes including at least 2 gimmie's in the opening moments of the 1st quarter (which I am watching for the first time)

Gabby and Pheesa , on the other hand.---

UConn players very seldom take high difficulty shots, and never take a whole series of them )because after the second one they are sitting on the bench. So not surprised by you observation, but ... good defense is not just 'tight' defense it can also be not allowing shooters to be on their spot, disrupting their rhythm, and getting in their heads.

 

[SVCBeercats]

But it shouldn't be credited for "shutting her down" i.e. they have some formula. (Last year it was so frustrating to hear "the formula" to beating UCONN was pound them in the paint.) Denial of the ball is nice and USC is amongst the top defensive teams. They are going to play good defense. However as Geno said - in the 2nd half they got what they wanted. If they want to "deny Lou the ball" while letting Gabby go at the slower bigs-- have at it. Especially in the 2nd half. l

The original post questioned shutting down KLS, not UCONN as a team. I just finished watching Gray stalking KLS for the 2nd half. Gray took KLS out of her game in the first half and the second half. Very good denial defense. Finally well into the 3rd qtr Gray gets a foul for excessive bodying up on KLS. Geno will have to "educate" the refs regarding what is excessive. Gray should had at least two more fouls for grabbing and literally blocking like a lineman when KLS tried to cut through the paint. Gray is 6' and KLS is 6'3". Why wasn't she taking Gray inside when Wilson and Coates vacated deep position to guard Collier and Williams? At about 2:11 remaining in the 3rd qtr KLS took Davis (6'2") deep and had an easy layup. Nifty pass from Williams. She will have to recognize when she has an inside advantage. She seemed to have regressed to her freshman habit of looking for a perimeter shot, in particular a 3ptr. Although she moved quite a bit; there were not many screens set for her let alone hard screens. Maybe rattling Gray's teeth once or twice would have dissuaded her persistent shadowing of KLS. The only uncontest jumper in 2nd half KLS made it. Irrespective of this SC defense hooey, I am more concerned about KLS' 3pt shot for the past 4 games, 20%. Yikes!

 

[DaddyChoc]

UConn players very seldom take high difficulty shots, and never take a whole series of them )because after the second one they are sitting on the bench. So not surprised by you observation, but ---. good defense is not just 'tight' defense it can also be not allowing shooters to be on their spot, disrupting their rhythm, and getting in their heads.

I agree,

it's ok that KLS didn't do much, we need to stop with the excuses. tight defense or not, she missed shots. Do we want them to be contested misses or uncontested misses?

(sorry for ranting on your post, the "I Agree" part was for you not the rest lol)

 

[veryolddog]

You, know the South Carolina game was a great game. I really enjoy UConn women playing against good teams like South Carolina in stead of teams like SMU or Tulane. Don't get me wrong, I have less anxiety watching a 40 point blowout, it is the anxiety that makes the play against a Baylor or South Carolina a great game. UConn women reach deep down in those games. KLS played a great game in spite of not making 20 points. Obviously, team defense held SC to 29 points in the first half and 55 points overall when they are use to scoring an average of 77 points. I would not discount the KLS contribution to her team members. This discussion is ....

 

[TitleTown]

The unsubstaintiated assumption that Katie Lou was missing in the first quarter becomes of the smothering and physical SC defense...

On replay, she is just missing shots she usually makes including at least 2 gimmie's in the opening moments of the 1st quarter (which I am watching for the first time)

Gabby and Pheesa , on the other hand...

Exactly. I said the same thing in the game thread.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I can't recall everything. But if you look at what coco had to say about early shots-- I know on one play I think in 2nd half Lou missed a 3 and I sort of laughed at Doris's comment that it was the tough defense on that play. Look back at the play Doris makes this claim. And then notice how much space the SC player gave her. This wasn't like the 30 footer she took and Geno pulled her shortly thereafter (more than likely because of the 4 fouls he pulled her.). This shot she was given space by the SC defense and just missed the shot.

She is - as you suggest - missing more form 3. I know longer "expect" her shots from 3 to neccessarily go in. I've seen many misses lately. Hopefully there si nothing more to it than she is just missing.

The premise of this thread was for the FIRST Quarter----he was/is correct in that Katie lou within seconds of starting missed a layup a bit later two in a row 3's clanked then later in the quarter a missed layup (Thanks Biff).
I too started out thinking the WHOLE GAME---but the original poster said first quarter--and Katie lou missed 4. There is not doubt that later in the game Katie lou was being used as a punching bag
pushed, pulled, dragged, punched, used for the ham in a sandwich--etc. You are correct --she missed a few 30 or closer footers --no doubt she was just off her game. But USC did defend her with great physical punishment---she worked well in many situations as a decoy and allowed Gabby/napheesa to get a score.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I agree,

it's ok that KLS didn't do much, we need to stop with the excuses. tight defense or not, she missed shots. Do we want them to be contested misses or uncontested misses?

(sorry for ranting on your post, the "I Agree" part was for you not the rest lol)

I doubt any one was making EXCUSES---it was what it was---and Katie Missed shots she normally made including apparently easy layups. She Has been off her game for 2-3 games--since she was sick a few weeks back--this cold/flu some are getting has a lingering effect and is a bit debilitating----
no excuse KLS missed shots--either by banging defense or in the wide open.
If it wasn't any of these reasons: lingering illness, defense, mental issues---what then can her not scoring be attributed---she just decided not to score???

 

[JordyG]

The original post questioned shutting down KLS, not UCONN as a team. I just finished watching Gray stalking KLS for the 2nd half. Gray took KLS out of her game in the first half and the second half. Very good denial defense. Finally well into the 3rd qtr Gray gets a foul for excessive bodying up on KLS. Geno will have to "educate" the refs regarding what is excessive. Gray should had at least two more fouls for grabbing and literally blocking like a lineman when KLS tried to cut through the paint. Gray is 6' and KLS is 6'3". Why wasn't she taking Gray inside when Wilson and Coates vacated deep position to guard Collier and Williams? At about 2:11 remaining in the 3rd qtr KLS took Davis (6'2") deep and had an easy layup. Nifty pass from Williams. She will have to recognize when she has an inside advantage. She seemed to have regressed to her freshman habit of looking for a perimeter shot, in particular a 3ptr. Although she moved quite a bit; there were not many screens set for her let alone hard screens. Maybe rattling Gray's teeth once or twice would have dissuaded her persistent shadowing of KLS. The only uncontest jumper in 2nd half KLS made it. Irrespective of this SC defense hooey, I am more concerned about KLS' 3pt shot for the past 4 games, 20%. Yikes!

Honestly I kind of touched on this a few games ago, and consistently during game threads. Because UConn was having little problems with the competition during conference play Lou had stopped running curls and was content to stand outside and shoot, although she would also post up and dribble drive. I noted that running curls takes energy and effort and when the time comes where these would be necessary she and her teammates may have dulled their ability to execute. So I wasn't really surprised that the timing necessary from the team was lacking and her ability to snap through and execute the curl wasn't there.

 

[UcMiami]

On Lou's three point shooting, I generally think of it as regression to the normal, same for UConn three point shooting in general. Teams as a whole seldom shoot above 40% for a season, and individuals seldom break 50%. Lou and UConn started the year on a good run of distance shooting - UConn was flirting with 45% for a few months and Lou was flirting with 50%, the percentages have now dropped into more normal ranges of 39% and 42% respectively - still very good. I expect Lou to heat up again and get back to around 44-45%, and hopefully UConn can get over 40%. One of her remaining years Lou might challenges Sue's record but this year she is too much of the offense and drawing too much attention. When Sue set that record she only took 145 threes and made 72, and for her career she took 451 and made 207. When Moriah almost matched the season number she took 113 and made 56. Lou this season has already taken 190 threes and for her career she is at 388 (and made 158) - she will come close to matching Sue's career shot attempts and makes by the end of her second year. It is really hard to be that prolific and keep you percentage near 50%.

Sue also scored 10.9 points per game in her record year - 2000 - it was pretty easy for her to get lost on offense with the fire power she was playing with (Sveta, Shea, et al)

 

[Longtime fan]

I agree and disagree, both. I watched the first half and logged 21 events involving Samuelson. She missed two wide open threes, a wide open two, missed an easy layup, and missed two contested jumpers inside the arc. Contested in the sense the defender was right up on her. However, due to Samuelson's height and release point I don't see how her shot could be blocked. SC's ball denial defense was effective against Samuelson. In particular #10, Grey, was like the second coming of Gary "The Glove" Peyton. #3 and #52 helped a lot in first quarter. #10 was really good in 2nd qtr. Several times #10 followed Samuelson through multiple srcreens all over the court. Lots of hands on, bodying up, and simply stepping front of her to stop a cut or ruin the timing. #10 did her job. Give Samuelson credit she was moving a lot without the ball. I counted nine possessions where Samuelson was denied the ball. Four times Samuelson had to pass the ball. Then she had a TO. Another time she lost the ball but fought for it and passed out for an assist on a Dangerfield three. So yes she atypically missed some open shots. However, SC's defense should not be dismissed.

I agree. South Carolina is a very good team, with some outstanding players and fine coaching. Let's not assume that they had no impact on Katy Lou's evening.