OT: Brook Lopez and new NBA

[Kenny11]

If anyone has been following the Bucks, who are having a great season, they have built the team completely around Giannis, who is not a shooter, by giving him space to operate and spreading the floor with 3 point shooters. It has worked very well.

But the crazy thing is the complete role reversal of Brook Lopez. This dude didn't make a 3 pointer his first 8 years in the NBA and didn't even attempt one in his first 5 years. He always had a nice shooting touch and a couple years ago with Brooklyn he started shooting a lot of 3's but he was also was attempting 16 field goals per game with a lot of post ups and mid range looks mixed in.

This year he is averaging 10 field goal attempts per game with more than 7 of the those attempts being 3 pointers. Lately he has had games where he's taken 13, 15, 12 threes and nothing else. Last night (against Andre Drummond) he went 7-12 from 3 and 7-13 overall. He doesn't post up at all anymore despite being 7 feet tall with really nice low post moves. Basically he's a 7 foot dude that stands outside and shoots 3's and does nothing else by design...and its working. More, not less teams are playing with this style which will probably get Lopez an extra contract and extend his career.

Analytics have proven mid range shots and post ups to be largely inefficient and I'm all for jacking 3's. But will it get to a point where this is going too far? As of now, I enjoy the NBA product very much and I like the 3's especially for the teams playing at a fast pace where individual creativity and athleticism is on display. However, watching a team jack 3s (and shoot free throws) at a slow pace like Houston is getting boring to watch and if every team essentially takes out 2 pointers individual creativity will definitely decrease.

Drummond has a place in league (for now) because he is the best rebounder in the world but good players with similar size and style are either rotting on the bench or out of the league altogether. Plus Drummond is very hard to trade at his current salary which says a lot about what teams are valuing. Many teams don't even want their players to crash the offensive glass and would prefer them to get back on defense after a shot. As some Boneyarderz have noted, the change in the NBA makes classic big guys like Kofi, who is possibly a better player than Kwame Brown was (who went number one out of highschool) into 3 and 4 year college players if they don't become 3 point shooters that can adequately guard the perimeter. Bully-ball can still work in college and now could be the right time to take advantage of it in recruiting before the college game evolves more.

 

[Chin Diesel]

This all goes back to Manute Bol who was the original pick and pop big man.

Once NBA execs realized a 7'+ big man can draw the oppositions biggest defender away from the hoop to clear up the lane or put a smaller defender who can't guard the shot, it was game on.

The skill level has evolved a bit since Bridgeport's finest, but he was the OG.

 

[Kenny11]

This all goes back to Manute Bol who was the original pick and pop big man.

Once NBA execs realized a 7'+ big man can draw the oppositions biggest defender away from the hoop to clear up the lane or put a smaller defender who can't guard the shot, it was game on.

The skill level has evolved a bit since Bridgeport's finest, but he was the OG.

No question that Manute was the OG. His highest 3PA in a season was 1.1 though.

 

[awfuldan]

He doesn't just hit catch-and-shoot three's from the top of the key either. Lots of deep ones, as well as some step-backs and some off-the-bounce shots. The third three here, the step back over Drummond, is insane.

Bucks are must-see TV. Mostly for Giannis, but Brook is fun to watch too.

 

[the Q]

NBA needs to make the 3 line deeper and make the lane narrower.

 

[HuskyBoi]

as a lifelong new jersey/brooklyn nets fan i really wished that the nets didnt move brook on. he was averaging 20 points per game just about every season and he would probably still be if he wasn't traded and taking back seats on different teams now. but its good to see him recreate his game to an inside out type of scorer. also, fun fact, he's the nets all time leading scorer with 10,400 points.

 

[UConnStats]

It's situational. Giannis needs someone like him to stretch the floor, because all of his offensive work is going to come inside, so he'd be at a disadvantage if there was another defender in his area.

 

[Husky25]

also, fun fact, he's the nets all time leading scorer...

That's grounds for a Hall of Fame debate. No?

 

[HuskyBoi]

That's grounds for a Hall of Fame debate. No?

i'd think so. franchise leading scorer should lead to HOF considering the current crop of players on the nets probably won't surpass him. if he stayed with the nets i bet he would stretch the record to 20,000 down the line.

 

[intlzncster]

i'd think so. franchise leading scorer should lead to HOF considering the current crop of players on the nets probably won't surpass him. if he stayed with the nets i bet he would stretch the record to 20,000 down the line.

Nah, HOF isn't a team by team award. Compare him to everyone else in the league/history. Not to his teammates.

All it tells you is the Nets always suck.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I didn't realize Brook's game had changed so much. I am a big Fantasy Basketball fan, but I never watch the NBA. So if the player isn't on my team or floating on waivers I have no idea how they are doing.

When I saw Brook dropped 7 3PM against me though I was floored until I saw its kind of his game now as @Kenny11 stated.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

NBA needs to make the 3 line deeper and make the lane narrower.

I'm not sure if the NBA views this shift that needs to be corrected via rules change.

 

[the Q]

I'm not sure if the NBA views this shift that needs to be corrected via rules change.

The nba doesn’t even enforce all its current rules...so that wouldn’t surprise me

 

[Husky25]

NBA needs to make the 3 line deeper and make the lane narrower.

I'm not sure if the NBA views this shift that needs to be corrected via rules change.

I'm interested in understanding why this might be an issue.

 

[methodology]

NBA needs to make the 3 line deeper and make the lane narrower.

Need to widen the court then and that takes away seats/ revenue.

Court is 50 ft wide inside of sideline to inside of sideline. The corner 3 is 22 ft from center of hoop to outside 3point line. That leaves 3 ft which is just enough area. You move the 3 point line back 2 ft you have to widen the court by 4 ft.

 

[the Q]

Need to widen the court then and that takes away seats/ revenue.

Court is 50 ft wide inside of sideline to inside of sideline. The corner 3 is 22 ft from center of hoop to outside 3point line. That leaves 3 ft which is just enough area. You move the 3 point line back 2 ft you have to widen the court by 4 ft.

I’d be happy taking away the corner 3.

Getting rid of big guys because of all the terrible rules changes over decades is abhorrent

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I'm interested in understanding why this might be an issue.

I don't think it necessarily is an issue they would want to correct. Scoring is up and the NBA is obviously more interested in providing a game full of guards driving to the basket than post-up hook shots.

 

[Lefty2one]

The stepback he hit last night was absurd. It must be so much fun to be an NBA player/big today.

 

[Husky25]

I don't think it necessarily is an issue they would want to correct. Scoring is up and the NBA is obviously more interested in providing a game full of guards driving to the basket than post-up hook shots.

@the Q apparently does. I agree with him on one point. the refs shouldn't defer so much to the super-duper stars and call an on-the-level game. I understand giving them the benefit of the doubt, but superiority is fun to watch on its own. The stray off-breath on a driving LeBron James should not be a foul. Conversely, If they were calling games as per the rulebook, Hack a-Shaq fouls would have all been intentional (FT and ball) from the outset and not have a specific rule for them.

Regarding the 3 point line, I disagree, but I am also interested in hearing his POV.

Larry Bird (6'-9") is thought of as a tremendous 3 point shooter in his day, but he entered his prime (ages 24-27, including two championships and his first MVP) shooting less than 26% from distance. It just wasn't a focus, but statistically, a 40% 3pt shooter (which is what he was over the rest of his career) produces in a vacuum what a 60% 2pt shooter would over the course of 100 possessions.

The reality (or so I've read) league wide FG% from 1-3 feet is 65%. It goes down drastically from 3-10 feet and even less from 10-22 feet (minimum 3PT distance). It just makes sense to have more players, regardless of size, proficient from that distance.

Sort of kidding but not really: The NBA would have an easier time forbidding anyone over 6'-10" from becoming too athletic, than shrinking the lane or moving back the line. They want to encourage 3s. They are too exciting.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

@the Q apparently does. I agree with him on one point. the refs shouldn't defer so much to the super-duper stars and call an on-the-level game. I understand giving them the benefit of the doubt, but superiority is fun to watch on its own. The stray off-breath on a driving LeBron James should not be a foul. Conversely, If they were calling games as per the rulebook, Hack a-Shaq fouls would have all been intentional (FT and ball) from the outset and not have a specific rule for them.

Regarding the 3 point line, I disagree, but I am also interested in hearing his POV.

Larry Bird (6'-9") is thought of as a tremendous 3 point shooter in his day, but he entered his prime (ages 24-27, including two championships and his first MVP) shooting less than 26% from distance. It just wasn't a focus, but statistically, a 40% 3pt shooter (which is what he was over the rest of his career) produces in a vacuum what a 60% 2pt shooter would over the course of 100 possessions.

The reality (or so I've read) league wide FG% from 1-3 feet is 65%. It goes down drastically from 3-10 feet and even less from 10-22 feet (minimum 3PT distance). It just makes sense to have more players, regardless of size, proficient from that distance.

Sort of kidding but not really: The NBA would have an easier time forbidding anyone over 6'-10" from becoming too athletic, than shrinking the lane or moving back the line. They want to encourage 3s. They are too exciting.

Certainly don't disagree that some of the calls and non-calls are a bit absurd. It actually is one of the major reasons that I don't watch the NBA all that much. Slowing down the game by allowing the hack-a-shaq strategy and sending star players to the line every other play makes a lot of games tough to watch.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

His twin brings nothing but comic relief unfortunately.

 

[auror]

I’d be happy taking away the corner 3.

Getting rid of big guys because of all the terrible rules changes over decades is abhorrent

College doesn't have the short corner but shooters still are more accurate from there. Spacing and almost all catch and shoot would persist.

There might be a little less flaring in transition if the math was changed slightly, but spacing is too important and the math wouldn't change enough.

 

[the Q]

College doesn't have the short corner but shooters still are more accurate from there. Spacing and almost all catch and shoot would persist.

There might be a little less flaring in transition if the math was changed slightly, but spacing is too important and the math wouldn't change enough.

If you move the line back without widening the court....

 

[the Q]

Certainly don't disagree that some of the calls and non-calls are a bit absurd. It actually is one of the major reasons that I don't watch the NBA all that much. Slowing down the game by allowing the hack-a-shaq strategy and sending star players to the line every other play makes a lot of games tough to watch.

1) the top part has been going on for decades. It’s why I prefer the college game, although that has changed over the years too. It used to be just duke. Now unc and especially mich st get crazy preferential treatment as well.

2) it is insulting to the fans that you and I can see what hack a Shaq is, and REAL basketball knows the answer but the nba claims there’s no answer to the HAS problem.

 

[auror]

If you move the line back without widening the court....

As in make it further from the (presumably cut) corner to the hoop than elsewhere on the line? If it's the same distance, people will still favor the corner. Moving it back in general will cut down on overall 3s, for sure, if you move it far enough.