Boy, did jacobs nail it today!

[freescooter]

sorry I can' get the link to work but his piece on the driveby players in college basketball was right on the money. The guy can be a dope, but this time he hit the nail right on the head, and blasted the NCAA for its hypocricy on the issue, in particular our good friend Emmert, who complained about it one day and apparently after getting reamed out by his bosses because of the possible loss of income suddenly changed his tune.

 

[MTHusky]

http://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-jacobs-ncaa-column-0404-20120404,0,2966264.column

Is this the link you want?

 

[freescooter]

http://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-jacobs-ncaa-column-0404-20120404,0,2966264.column

Is this the link you want?

Thanks. I just couldn't get it to paste for some reason...

 

[Kitaman]

If cal is legally working the system to his advantage then the negative feedback is misplaced, and strikes of jealousy. He has become arguably the best recruiter in the nation, and willing to sacrifice the future for the now. He recruits and coaches players to win at basketball. Most other coaches (like Calhoun) recruits and coaches players to win at life. Its a almost a moral/ethical choice.

I suspect cal could not build a following of NBAers and ex players, like K, or JC (and others) who maintain contact with their college even while in the NBA or elsewhere.

 

[cohenzone]

As many here, including me, have said, nobody blames Calipari or the kids for operating under the only system available to them. We all know we would be thrilled with taking the exact same kids Calipari got to commit. The issue with him as been at the least the rather understandable questions about his ethics, notwithstanding that he has escaped the noose. The system is lousy and I totally agree that if a kid is good enough to go pro straight of of high school, good for him, and if he isn't AND meets regular academic standards for admission to a college, then there should be some agreement that the kid stays at least 3 years so that there is some reason to believe a college actually has a program and not a minor league team.

 

[Mr.Phat]

If cal is legally working the system to his advantage then the negative feedback is misplaced, and strikes of jealousy. He has become arguably the best recruiter in the nation, and willing to sacrifice the future for the now. He recruits and coaches players to win at basketball. Most other coaches (like Calhoun) recruits and coaches players to win at life. Its a almost a moral/ethical choice.

I suspect cal could not build a following of NBAers and ex players, like K, or JC (and others) who maintain contact with their college even while in the NBA or elsewhere.

At the risk of getting shot at by half this board, isn't JC of the same philosophical school? How can you say that JC prepares young men to win at life when he is indifferent to players' academic success? This APR business is the going to be the worst part of Calhoun's legacy. I don't suggest that Calhoun didn't want players to succeed but he was indifferent to it. A coach interested in the whole person would start with the player's academic performance.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

At the risk of getting shot at by half this board, isn't JC of the same philosophical school? How can you say that JC prepares young men to win at life when he is indifferent to players' academic success? This APR business is the going to be the worst part of Calhoun's legacy. I don't suggest that Calhoun didn't want players to succeed but he was indifferent to it. A coach interested in the whole person would start with the player's academic performance.

You obviously have no idea what this "APR business" is all about do you?

 

[Walker11]

My only problem is that UK has WWW, a super agent type who is one of the most well connected people in the NBA as a pseudo booster of the program. That picture of Wes, in the middle of the UK family section making that Jay-Z hand sign toward Jay-Z, his friend who he brings to the games just absolutely disgusts me.

 

[jibsey]

As far as JC, I think that having an academic advisor to arrange help and tutoring and follow progress is about as far as you can go. If after all that some kids decide to abandon their studies, what more could Calhoun do? Should he go to the dorms and quiz them? There are so many variables in academics. I would love to see the course description for the one and don'ers. Technically they don't even have to take a course that would apply to a major, which means some pretty gaffey sh#t.

 

[suzyq]

As many here, including me, have said, nobody blames Calipari or the kids for operating under the only system available to them. We all know we would be thrilled with taking the exact same kids Calipari got to commit. The issue with him as been at the least the rather understandable questions about his ethics, notwithstanding that he has escaped the noose. The system is lousy and I totally agree that if a kid is good enough to go pro straight of of high school, good for him, and if he isn't AND meets regular academic standards for admission to a college, then there should be some agreement that the kid stays at least 3 years so that there is some reason to believe a college actually has a program and not a minor league team.

You know Calipari agrees with you right?

BTW, if he stays at Kentucky his recruiting is going to become even more successful. Kids wil believe that they can win AND go to the NBA after a year.

 

[cohenzone]

You know Calipari agrees with you right?

BTW, if he stays at Kentucky his recruiting is going to become even more successful. Kids wil believe that they can win AND go to the NBA after a year.

On what? That he has escaped the noose he deserves? The system isd what it is and UConn and every other school that recruits the highest talent kids know that there is a chance that a kid will leave after one or at least 2 years. UConnhas happened to get some kids, Lamb for one, that is in the unanticipated position of maybe leaving after a year. We took Drummond thinking he was probably one and done (who was really watching his game is a mystery). If Calipari and I happen to agree that the better system is to require kids to stay 3 years, good for him. Of course, he must realize that he wouldn't get the same bumper crop every year because kids would run the risk of sitting behind all-stars for up to 2 years.

 

[boog204]

If cal is legally working the system to his advantage then the negative feedback is misplaced, and strikes of jealousy. He has become arguably the best recruiter in the nation, and willing to sacrifice the future for the now. He recruits and coaches players to win at basketball. Most other coaches (like Calhoun) recruits and coaches players to win at life. Its a almost a moral/ethical choice.

I suspect cal could not build a following of NBAers and ex players, like K, or JC (and others) who maintain contact with their college even while in the NBA or elsewhere.

Your statement, in my opinion, is a bit ridiculous. Calhoun recruits players to win at life? Do you think JC would have turned down Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, and Teague if we had the scholarships? The answer is no. JC had no problem taking Drummond or recruiting Durant, Odom, BKnight, and others who most people thought were one and dones. We didn't get most of them b/c they were not going to have their ass kissed like they would at other schools. Let's not make it seem that Calipari gets these players b/c he is somehow sacrificing the school or something while JC is Father Flanigan and upholding the morality of college basketball. If those players wanted to come here, JC would take them and we would cheer them and laud JC's recruiting ability.

 

[NEforceUConn]

After reading much material let me offer my unbias summary on Calhoun versus Calipari:

Calhoun - fierce Irish competitor
Calipari - total Scumbag

and for the hard of hearing

Calhoun - fierce Irish competitor
Calipari - total Scumbag

 

[kobebeanbryant]

everybody is playing the same game, calipari is just doing it better. quit being haters.

given some of the things that have happened at uconn over the past 10 years, i find it funny how some posters have a holier-than-thou attitude.

 

[Robertelamin]

You know Calipari agrees with you right?

BTW, if he stays at Kentucky his recruiting is going to become even more successful. Kids wil believe that they can win AND go to the NBA after a year.

Not really. He already gets whoever he wants and has for the last 3 years.

 

[UCFBfan]

What I want to know is how programs like Kentucky avoid the APR mess and a program like UConn is destroyed by it? Honestly, is our program that inept that they can't hire the right people to make sure the players do their work. Heck, hire people to make sure SOMEONE is doing the work for the kids at least. When was the last time we had a One and Done? I can't remember the last time. Yet programs like Kentucky have them every year and aren't under the APR scrutiney. Why? What are they doing that UConn forgot to do or isn't doing?? That's my issue here. It's not an issue with Calipari or UK. It's an issue with UConn and not having the right people making sure the mess is swept under the rug or not made in the first place.

 

[UCONNfan1]

i don't quite get some of the histrionics. Calimari is a slime. the guy has already had 2 final 4's vacated. even if this one sticks (the NC), he's still a slime. but he's a successful slime. he gets a boatload of AA's to come play for him and he turned it into a NC this year. sort of makes one pine for the days when Duke was the most fun team to hate.

 

[tduconn]

My niece, while in the honors program the last four years, has tutored football and basketball players, and she reports to a supervisor who reports to a coach.

There is a difference between the coaches in each sport. I know for a fact, that RE contacted her about progress of certain players (once by e-mail during Easter weekend). When players were suspended from Spring practice or season games because of academics, all she said was "RE was tough on academics".

I know for a fact this past Fall one of the basketball players failed to show for at least three sessions.......and this was also reported to a supervisor who reports to the coach. I can't recall the last time JC suspended a student for academic reasons.

While she couldn't name the students she was tutoring for confidentiality reasons, in the case of both sports she said some of the players were active participants and others were bench warmers.

I think the APR responsibility falls squarely on JC's shoulders, because it seems UConn was providing teams and players with academic support.

 

[upstater]

My niece, while in the honors program the last four years, has tutored football and basketball players, and she reports to a supervisor who reports to a coach.

There is a difference between the coaches in each sport. I know for a fact, that RE contacted her about progress of certain players (once by e-mail during Easter weekend). When players were suspended from Spring practice or season games because of academics, all she said was "RE was tough on academics".

I know for a fact this past Fall one of the basketball players failed to show for at least three sessions.......and this was also reported to a supervisor who reports to the coach. I can't recall the last time JC suspended a student for academic reasons.

While she couldn't name the students she was tutoring for confidentiality reasons, in the case of both sports she said some of the players were active participants and others were bench warmers.

I think the APR responsibility falls squarely on JC's shoulders, because it seems UConn was providing teams and players with academic support.

If falls on JC because he wasn't perverting the educational process enough? Because he wasn't yet gaming the system enough?

This is one of the things that is very wrong about this country. The fact that it's happening in High Education is mind-boggling, because you have institutions that , if nothing else, develop rigorous models for assessing phenomena in the world, and yet when it comes to assessing things like faculty productivity or the education of student athletes, they come up with the most reductive and silly assessment tools possible. Phony assessment models are everywhere these days, from Wall Street with its totally bogus quants and their math models that eliminated risk in the derivatives market to testing students in the high schools. All these tests are put in place to give support to the selfish motivations of vested interests.

It's simply counterintuitive for someone to sat that Calhoun was not gaming the system properly. That makes no rational sense to me. But that's America circa 2012.

 

[HuskyBandDad]

What I want to know is how programs like Kentucky avoid the APR mess and a program like UConn is destroyed by it? Honestly, is our program that inept that they can't hire the right people to make sure the players do their work. Heck, hire people to make sure SOMEONE is doing the work for the kids at least. When was the last time we had a One and Done? I can't remember the last time. Yet programs like Kentucky have them every year and aren't under the APR scrutiney. Why? What are they doing that UConn forgot to do or isn't doing?? That's my issue here. It's not an issue with Calipari or UK. It's an issue with UConn and not having the right people making sure the mess is swept under the rug or not made in the first place.

I agree with most of this and I would like to know what the admission standards are for Kentucky vs Uconn?? I would bet Uconn is a higher. How can you use this APR system when all the schools have different admission standards ? I admit I do not know how the APR works but you think these one and done kids are in class right now and finish the semester ? Then how can they be in " good academic standing " ?

 

[freescooter]

I agree with most of this and I would like to know what the admission standards are for Kentucky vs Uconn?? I would bet Uconn is a higher. How can you use this APR system when all the schools have different admission standards ? I admit I do not know how the APR works but you think these one and done kids are in class right now and finish the semester ? Then how can they be in " good academic standing " ?

I agree with most of this and I would like to know what the admission standards are for Kentucky vs Uconn?? I would bet Uconn is a higher. How can you use this APR system when all the schools have different admission standards ? I admit I do not know how the APR works but you think these one and done kids are in class right now and finish the semester ? Then how can they be in " good academic standing " ?

"Normal" admission criteria don't really apply in the case of basketball players in particular. UCONN accepts players who would be laughed out of the admissions office under normal circumstances. And they pretty much admited as much in their NCAA waiver request part of their argument was that they were now accepting higher performing students since the SAT scores for the basketball teaqm had grown from something like 865 to 950 +-. But over the same period, the general student body had gone from 1100 to close to 1200. Of course, UCONN isn't the only place to do this. Virtually every D-1 school admits athletes who wouldn't normally qualify for admission under the argument that they would admit other "special" students like the talented musician or the artist or my firend who scored 800 in math and 250 in verbal some years ago.

Whether it is gaming the system or not, though, APR is a fact of life. And it falls onto the coaching staff to insure compliance I think. I do think it would be much better if universities set their performance standards and then enforced them, but when that was the rule, too many simply ignored their own standards or gamed their own standards. And there was no enforcement. But in the world of driveby players,(a term I heard recently and I love), progress toward a degree is a silly standard, too, since huge numbers have absolutely no intent of ever getting a degree. the real soultion is to tell the NBA to go screw. We are not letting this continue and adopt rules to the effect that players who leave early cost themselves and their teams dearly. Would Kentucky and Cal be so willing to land a bunch of drivebys if for the next 3 seasons he had to play without 4 scholarships for the 4 guys who left? And would they have left if the risk would be that they have to repay the scholarship money they recieved form UK? While the later is probably a minor annoyance, it would probably keep some of the more marginal players on campus. the former would cause teams to really have to think about who they offer. Combine that with some higher standards for eligibility, and you might have a return to actual student athletes.

 

[upstater]

Whether it is gaming the system or not, though, APR is a fact of life. And it falls onto the coaching staff to insure compliance I think. I.

This is crazy irrational thinking. Whether it [perverts education] or not, it falls on the coaching staff to [pervert education.]

Crazy stuff

 

[freescooter]

This is crazy irrational thinking. Whether it [perverts education] or not, it falls on the coaching staff to [pervert education.]

Crazy stuff

The APR isn't what perverts the educational system. that is where we have our most fundamental disagreement...The 1-and-done driveby player system is what perverts the system. You think Andre Drummond came to UCONN because he wanted to study Shakespeare? Think all those kids went to Kentucky for their strong Math Department? I'm sure Omar Calhoun is coming to UCONN because of the new Chemistry building... Of course not. The APR system is an attempt, a weak one I concede, but none the less an attempt to try and find some way to deal with a system that has become peverted by other sources. When you have a system that allows kids to in essense stop by for a year or two to play basketball you have two choices. to regognize it for what it is and simply drop all pretense and say "our basketball players are exempt from the academic requirements." Or to try to find some system that puts them on some minimal level of an academic track. You can say the APR fails at that, and I won't disagree with you. You want to make it a bit better, eliminate the automatic waiver for players who leave to go pro. (and which was put in in response to the coaches). It is still a weak tool, but again, it isn't the real problem. the real problem is the system that prevents players from going directly to the NBA out of high school.

 

[cohenzone]

The APR system is a flawed attempt to force colleges to make the "student" part of "student-athlete" mean something. So long as there is a governing body for college sports, I don't think it is wrong for for the governing body to try and do something along these lines. And it has nothing to do with the one-and-done issue. It has been an issue even when, years ago, frosh couldn't play varsity. The difference is that the NCAA makes schools pay in penalties now. When I was at UConn, at least one player "flunked" off the team every year I was there. I believe star Bill Corley might have been one of them for a semester. It is only more obvious now because of many factors which I'm sure others here can add to, but would seem to include, in no particular order:

1. The NBA draft rules
2. The money involved for the schools related to TV revenues
3. The hype that comes from TV exposure
4.The fact that there is hardly such thing any more as a great player that some school or other won't recruit because of bad academics. Theoretically, this problem should not exist if a player meets basic NCAA academic requirements coming out of high school, but I only know that back in the unenlightened dark ages of the 1950's and 1960's there were lots of kids who were very good players who couldn't get into a community college. I know because I attended a very good hoops hs in Hartford and there were kids who were better than any kid on the team who wound up playing in the amazing industrial leagues and couldn't get in to college. As an aside, there was always a rumor, quite possibly true, that two great hs players in the late 50's wanted to go to UConn but couldn't get in so went elsewhere. Don't snicker, because one of them was the great Elgin Baylor whose good hs friend and teammate was already at UConn and Baylor went to the far less distinguished U. of Seattle, and the other was Johnny Egan from Hartford, who along with Lennie Wilkins, made Providence into a nationally recognized hoops program. The rumor if true, tells a story that would not happen at UConn today. They would both have been admitted (might be one and done and we'd love them anyway.)

As far as the post goes above about JC's support for academic compliance, I also have been told by a source I consider to be reliable that when one of the previous academic advisors to the team would warn certain players that they had to hit the study halls, he had a hard time getting them to go. It seems intuitive that if JC was making it a major priority, there is no way the kids would have balked. Would you screw around with JC's priorties? Again, just hearsay, but this isn't a courtroom and my source spoke directly to the advisor after a practice that my source observed. But I'm not saying, because this isn't part of what I was told, that the advisor said anything one way or another about JC's emphasis on academic compliance. Putting the horse before the cart, I don't think the NCAA, for however arbitrary it can seem to be, is going out of its way to just pick on UConn. UConn, one way or another, got itself in a position to be picked on.

 

[upstater]

The APR isn't what perverts the educational system. that is where we have our most fundamental disagreement...The 1-and-done driveby player system is what perverts the system. You think Andre Drummond came to UCONN because he wanted to study Shakespeare? Think all those kids went to Kentucky for their strong Math Department? I'm sure Omar Calhoun is coming to UCONN because of the new Chemistry building... Of course not. The APR system is an attempt, a weak one I concede, but none the less an attempt to try and find some way to deal with a system that has become peverted by other sources. When you have a system that allows kids to in essense stop by for a year or two to play basketball you have two choices. to regognize it for what it is and simply drop all pretense and say "our basketball players are exempt from the academic requirements." Or to try to find some system that puts them on some minimal level of an academic track. You can say the APR fails at that, and I won't disagree with you. You want to make it a bit better, eliminate the automatic waiver for players who leave to go pro. (and which was put in in response to the coaches). It is still a weak tool, but again, it isn't the real problem. the real problem is the system that prevents players from going directly to the NBA out of high school.

APR tracks kids into bogus courses. It perverts education. Pretty simple stuff. Bilas made the same point.