Boise State's 4 year grad rate is 6%

[freescooter]

The one thing graduation rates never tell you, or at least, never seems to be shown in a full breakdown, is the reason why someone failed to graduate.

That reason isn't always academic failure. Going to Boise State for a year to save up money and build a GPA record before you transfer to another school counts as a "failure to graduate" on Boise State's record (23% of students that go to Boise State transfer out). Going to Boise State for a year, and having to quit school because you can't afford the tuition (as low as Boise State's is) counts against their graduation rate too. Going part time for six years, and getting a degree at the end, counts as a failure in the four year graduation rate (which is why, of course, there's a six year rate in the first place).

Dobbs,
As you are on the hockey board, you're right on the money here. In lots of ways this goes to a school's mission, or its function in the academic hierarchy. That's hard to explain to folks, but Boise isn't nor does it make any effort to be the Harvard of the west. When you think Boise State, you shouldn'tbe comparing it to UCONN but rather think Central or Southern with a wicked good football team. If you look more closely at its profile, that is much more of the type of school you are looking at.

While I don't love this matchup, on the other hand it isn't like we're going to merge with Bosie State. We'll probably play them once every few years.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Dobbs,
As you are on the hockey board, you're right on the money here. In lots of ways this goes to a school's mission, or its function in the academic hierarchy. That's hard to explain to folks, but Boise isn't nor does it make any effort to be the Harvard of the west. When you think Boise State, you shouldn'tbe comparing it to UCONN but rather think Central or Southern with a wicked good football team. If you look more closely at its profile, that is much more of the type of school you are looking at.

While I don't love this matchup, on the other hand it isn't like we're going to merge with Bosie State. We'll probably play them once every few years.

UCF and SFU have largely the same profile. They are the Central CT., Southern CT of Florida. Huge schools because Florida is so populated.

I don't agree that academics don't matter. I think Herbst is privately very displeased with the notion of Boise and CFU, but the options are limited. We could stick to much better schools, SMU and Tulane to start (Houston is just like Boise, CFU and SFU, as is Memphis), but then we're gambling on the AQ status.

This is why I continue to think we should add no schools to the BE for all sports, and split off the new BE football conference as a separate football only league. I'd rename it as well, since "east" will definitely not fit. That mitigates the problem. Bring in all three academies as well.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

UCF and SFU have largely the same profile. They are the Central CT., Southern CT of Florida. Huge schools because Florida is so populated.

USF, and particularly UCF, have markedly higher average admissions standards than Central or Southern CT, Memphis, Houston, or Boise State. USF and UCF are not Harvard and Yale, but their admission standards are at least on par or better than several existing BE schools.

It's significantly unrelated to conference realignment dynamics, but opening UCF's new medical school provides big growth, fundraising, and even undergrad academic opportunities. That's not happening at a CT state college. Again, not a real conference expansion consideration.

 

[junglehusky]

Right. USF and UCF have large research missions as well.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There was a thread a couple of days ago on another board (West Va.?, Louisville?) Evidently, there was no Jr./Community college in the immediate area of Boise that served the population for associate's degrees & the Idaho State Board of Education required Boise to administer courses for that segment. The thread said that a community college has since opened in the area, thus alleviating the Broncos of this burden & grad rates should be significantly higher in the near future.

Does Boise State still offer associates degrees?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Lol. Then what's the point of attending college if it isn't to get a college degree? So Boise State's academic mission is what exactly? Thank you for redefining 200 years of academic tradition. Face it, graduating 6% of its students is pathetic, any way you slice it.

Because people want to improve their lives. They can't stop working or raising children so they can sit on a campus in eastern Connecticut and drink, smoke pot, and hook up for 4-5 years (like 75% of this board by my estimate) and then pick up a piece of paper that says they accomplished something because they got a C+ in Anthro and B- in Rock for Jocks.

A little bit of eduction can make a huge impact in many of these people's lives. Many of these people come from dirt poor backgrounds where they need remedial reading and writing just to function in a workplace environment. Or maybe they work in a factory but could use some technical education to understand the machine they run a little better.

The other poster who compared Boise to Southern Connecticut is kind of on the money, but I would put Boise even downstream from Southern in some ways in terms of its mission. It really is a community college that offers 4 year degrees and happens to have an amazing football program.

 

[businesslawyer]

When this league officially ceases to exist, we will look back to the time when desperation set in and we considered Boise St. for admission as the tell tale sign that league's days were numbered.

FWIW, I think this is the only course of action the league can take right now. But the league is a dead man walking right now.

Do you wake up every morning and tell your wife she's not as good looking as some supermodel? It may be true but what is the point of repeating it again and again and again?

We are not in a good place. Everyone knows that. Why any discussion other than how to make the best of it?

 

[uc1974]

Nelson, you are the most cynical negative board entity ever. From no one ever making the right decision on realignment to negative comments about obtaining an education there is never anything that goes right or anyone making a correct decision. I think if I had to work for you I would quit after a week or check into the Institute. That being said, it never hurts to have a gadfly and in a perverse way I look forward to your black clouds.

 

[noeynox]

I always picture Boise State as real life Blue Mountain State.

I've never been to Idaho, but the way the population is being portrayed is depressing. A large segment of the population needing remedial reading?

This conference needs Boise due to their BCS rankings. The rest doesn't really matter. I doubt many here will ever take a roadtrip there.

 

[John Greene]

I always picture Boise State as real life Blue Mountain State.

I've never been to Idaho, but the way the population is being portrayed is depressing. A large segment of the population needing remedial reading?

This conference needs Boise due to their BCS rankings. The rest doesn't really matter. I doubt many here will ever take a roadtrip there.

I traveled to Idaho with some regularity when I worked and can attest to the fact that a large segment of the population does NOT need remedial reading. In fact I would not rate their average educational achievement in Idaho as much different than CT. When I read some of the comments on this site I start to wonder if these people have ever been out of CT.

 

[businesslawyer]

I traveled to Idaho with some regularity when I worked and can attest to the fact that a large segment of the population does NOT need remedial reading. In fact I would not rate their average educational achievement in Idaho as much different than CT. When I read some of the comments on this site I start to wonder if these people have ever been out of CT.

People on this board think New Jersey is totally different than Connecticut. The best I can tell, mostly because Connecticut's ethnic mobs didn't spark a fictional TV show and Jersey's did.

 

[John Greene]

People on this board think New Jersey is totally different than Connecticut. The best I can tell, mostly because Connecticut's ethnic mobs didn't spark a fictional TV show and Jersey's did.

I know about the ethnic mobs growing up in New Britain.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I traveled to Idaho with some regularity when I worked and can attest to the fact that a large segment of the population does NOT need remedial reading. In fact I would not rate their average educational achievement in Idaho as much different than CT. When I read some of the comments on this site I start to wonder if these people have ever been out of CT.

New England is extremely parochial in that way. In photos, Idaho looks beautiful. From what I can tell it is growing and attracting population and jobs. It just doesn't seem that Boise State caters to the better students.

 

[Stinger92860]

This immediately comes to mind...

Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join ...ing Peace Corps

 

[John Greene]

New England is extremely parochial in that way. In photos, Idaho looks beautiful. From what I can tell it is growing and attracting population and jobs. It just doesn't seem that Boise State caters to the better students.

Parochial is not a strong enough word in some instances. We have been living a very rewarding life here in AL for over 25 years but when we go back to visit family in CT we still get the occasional question about moving back. This in spite of the fact that neither our pension or SS is taxed here and the top rate on other income is 5%.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson, you are the most cynical negative board entity ever. From no one ever making the right decision on realignment to negative comments about obtaining an education there is never anything that goes right or anyone making a correct decision. I think if I had to work for you I would quit after a week or check into the Institute. That being said, it never hurts to have a gadfly and in a perverse way I look forward to your black clouds.

I was hardly being cynical. We have academic snobs on this board looking down their nose at a school like Boise State that provides a very valuable service to its students. I would argue that more actual learning goes on at a place like Boise, given the needs of many of its students, then you see at a place like UConn, where half the school is there to party until they receive a piece of paper. I don't think any learning at all goes on at a place like Brown, where everyone gets at least a B and the kids all come from prep schools and the top private schools.

I think community colleges and schools like Boise are critical players in our country's educational system.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Parochial is not a strong enough word in some instances. We have been living a very rewarding life here in AL for over 25 years but when we go back to visit family in CT we still get the occasional question about moving back. This in spite of the fact that neither our pension or SS is taxed here and the top rate on other income is 5%.

My family moved to CT from Overland Park, KS when I was five. For years my parents got questions about "Indians" out there. This was the early 70's, but still, metro Kansas City was if anything more cosmopolitan than metro Hartford. Yet the CT view was 100 years behind. Even in college I astounded my fellow UConn students by being able to name all the original members of the Southwest Conference. My Geography professor @ Storrs was from New Hampshire. He claimed to be the only New Englander teaching geography in the whole country, as most of New Englanders are pathetically ignorant of the other states.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I was hardly being cynical. We have academic snobs on this board looking down their nose at a school like Boise State that provides a very valuable service to its students. I would argue that more actual learning goes on at a place like Boise, given the needs of many of its students, then you see at a place like UConn, where half the school is there to party until they receive a piece of paper. I don't think any learning at all goes on at a place like Brown, where everyone gets at least a B and the kids all come from prep schools and the top private schools.

I think community colleges and schools like Boise are critical players in our country's educational system.

I could be accused as one of the academic snobs. But I've been clear that I don't think ECU, Memphis, Houston or Boise provide poor educations, merely that they lack academic standing and prestige. Since UConn's stated goal in even playing FBS football was to mimic those schools we wanted to emulate, UVA, UNC and Michigan, I think it is somewhat counterproductive to the entire reason we even went D1A, to end up in a conference with a poor academic reputation.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this IS something Herbst and the RU president are considering. I have no doubt that it's a reason they are looking to add SMU instead of Houston and to add the academies. It has nothing to do with actual classroom educations, and everything to do with being a in a conference of your "peers", namely schools with a similar mission and a US News ranking not too far from yours. Even if the BE contract paid more than the ACC or B1G, we would jump to either league immediately just for the prestige. Ultimately, that's what this is all about for UConn.

 

[John Greene]

My family moved to CT from Overland Park, KS when I was five. For years my parents got questions about "Indians" out there. This was the early 70's, but still, metro Kansas City was if anything more cosmopolitan than metro Hartford. Yet the CT view was 100 years behind. Even in college I astounded my fellow UConn students by being able to name all the original members of the Southwest Conference. My Geography professor @ Storrs was from New Hampshire. He claimed to be the only New Englander teaching geography in the whole country, as most of New Englanders are pathetically ignorant of the other states.

This is a true story: Shortly after moving here we returned to CT for a family funeral. While talking to a relative of my wife I mentioned that we were in the process of buying a place on the Florida panhandle with 4 other couples which we would use as a weekend place since it was only a 4 hour drive. This person, the graduate of a college in CT (thankfully not UConn) asked me how many states we had to drive through to get there.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

When reading some comments on this site, I often think many posters could benefit from Boise State's or any university's remedial reading and writing courses. Reading some posters' concerns regarding associate's degrees, I wonder whether they believe UConn should give up our 3 national hoops championships, 2-shared BE football titles, and many other athletic championships? Or, is it time to discontinue UConn's Land Grant College mission, the 2-year Associate of Applied Science (A.A.S.) degree in Animal Science or Ornamental Horticulture and Turfgrass Management, Nursery, Landscaping, and Floriculture, and to refuse related federal government research funding?

 

[gars44]

I was hardly being cynical. We have academic snobs on this board looking down their nose at a school like Boise State that provides a very valuable service to its students. I would argue that more actual learning goes on at a place like Boise, given the needs of many of its students, then you see at a place like UConn, where half the school is there to party until they receive a piece of paper. I don't think any learning at all goes on at a place like Brown, where everyone gets at least a B and the kids all come from prep schools and the top private schools.

I think community colleges and schools like Boise are critical players in our country's educational system.

I'd have to say this is a pretty correct assessment. The only place I'd maybe have a difference of opinion is that at places like Uconn and Brown, there is learning going on, kids are being exposed to new things and broadening their horizons. But to say that the same process is not going on at community colleges is just arrogant and condescending, and kids are kids, we have all gone through it, and perhaps some kids are more fortunate than others in terms of who their mommies and daddies were. So, this is a very, very magnanimous sentiment, and I agree with it.

For example, I am very close to a kid who had a lot of problems, a good kid, but he had problems. He started at Tunxis CC. Moved out to San Diego and attended Grossmont, also a CC in the Cal system. Straight A's. Now he is a junior at UCSD. Not a bad school. But he would have been looked down on by a lot of people. I'm proud of him.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

For the great majority of its existence Boise St was a community college and it does still serve that purpose (while also offering four year degrees).

The graduation rate of their entire student body may be a bit misleading as I would not be surprised if more than 1/3 of their students are there for two year degrees while nearly as many attend part time while working full time.

This is far from an ideal scenario as an addition to a collegiate athletic conference but we are not exactly in a position to choose from the likes of Michigan, California, Virginia or Wisconsin to fill out our conference. The pool of quality candidates is pretty close to being dry.

 

[gars44]

For the great majority of its existence Boise St was a community college and it does still serve that purpose (while also offering four year degrees).

The graduation rate of their entire student body may be a bit misleading as I would not be surprised if more than 1/3 of their students are there for two year degrees while nearly as many attend part time while working full time.

This is far from an ideal scenario as an addition to a collegiate athletic conference but we are not exactly in a position to choose from the likes of Michigan, California, Virginia or Wisconsin to fill out our conference. The pool of quality candidates is pretty close to being dry.

Yes, and it is dry because there is something of a concerted effort to close the doors on new entries like Uconn, and Umass, and UCF, and ECU, and any other newcomer who desires entry into the club. Many club members simply don't want these types at the Christmas party. Not our kind, so to speak.

So, we simply have to pave our way, as every new money group must do, and Boise State and Uconn are "new money" and we will pave our way. And we will earn our seat. It is the natural evolution of things.

 

[Rumrunner]

It's amazing how far we have fallen when the argument concerning academic prestige concerns excuses why a 4 year college doesn't graduate 94% (or 74%) of its students.

When President Herbst stated that the priorities for UConn wete academic, geographic and athletic fit, it is is impossible on any plane to justify Boise State.

Since the majority of the new Big East will want to take prop players, UConn might as well join them when that issue comes up.

 

[Rumrunner]

Ripped off from the Rutgers' board:

For reference, our [Rutgers'] graduation rates are 53% & 77% in 4 & 6 years, respectively, which I thought were too low. Here are others in 4 & 6 years, respectively:

UCF: 35% & 64%
Pitt: 61% & 78%
Pound Puppies: 66% & 81%
Fruit U: 72% & 82%
WVU: 33% & 59%
UL: 21% & 49%
USF: 24% & 51%
Cincy: 21% & 56%

UVA: 85% & 93%
UNC: 75% & 88%
Miami: 68% & 80%
Georgia Tech: 33% & 80%
Clemson: 50% & 76%
NCST: 41% & 73%
VT: 53% & 80%
BC: 87% & 91%
Dook: 87% & 94%
WF: 83% & 89%
MD: 62% & 81%
FSU: 50% & 74%
Mich St: 48% & 77%
Michigan: 72% & 90%
PSU: 62% & 85%
Purdue: 38% & 69%
tOSU: 49% & 78%
Nebraska: 29% & 64%
Wisconsin: 50% & 83%
Minn: 46% & 70%
Indiana: 50% & 71%
Iowa: 44% & 70%
Northwestern: 86% & 94%
UF: 59% & 84%

aTm: 46% & 80%
UT: 53% & 80% Pos