Bob Dylan sold all his song rights

[Kitaman]

No basketball so lets talk about the music industry.

Bob Dylan sells rights to all his songs in likely record-breaking deal

I can't find a sales figure but the song rights appear to be valued over $200 million. Its reported they were purchased but the Universal Music Group. UMG is the world's top music company (I never knew).

Its his to do what he wants, but I'm not that familiar with the intricacies of the music industry and curious as to who the winner is in this deal. Since royalties are considered inheritances of the estate, I wonder if the cash is easier to pass down than an income stream. I wonder if Elton John, Stevie Wonder and other legendary songwriters will follow.

Its not like Bob (almost 80 years old) needed the money, so what's the advantage to losing a lifetime of royalties and control? More importantly, will this affect us fans and music listeners?

 

[glastonbury50]

Hope he doesn't leave spotify

 

[Adios]

Does Elton John have any heirs?

 

[Chin Diesel]

No basketball so lets talk about the music industry.

I can't find a sales figure but the song rights appear to be valued over $200 million. Its reported they were purchased but the Universal Music Group. UMG is the world's top music company (I never knew).

Its his to do what he wants, but I'm not that familiar with the intricacies of the music industry and curious as to who the winner is in this deal. Since royalties are considered inheritances of the estate, I wonder if the cash is easier to pass down than an income stream. I wonder if Elton John, Stevie Wonder and other legendary songwriters will follow.

Its not like Bob (almost 80 years old) needed the money, so what's the advantage to losing a lifetime of royalties and control? More importantly, will this affect us fans and music listeners?

I can see Dylan getting that kind of $$$$. He's got 30-40 years of product out there that a good chunk of the population enjoyed at one time or another.

What blew me away was hearing Stevie Nicks getting a reported $100M for the rights to her song catalog. Her solo songs aren't overly significant and she only did part of the song writing with Fleetwood Mac.

I would assume passing on cash to the next generation is easier than managing a song catalog, especially if heirs aren't in to the music industry. That entire industry is pretty much scum when it comes to screwing over anyone you can.

 

[Kitaman]

I can see Dylan getting that kind of $$$$. He's got 30-40 years of product out there that a good chunk of the population enjoyed at one time or another.

What blew me away was hearing Stevie Nicks getting a reported $100M for the rights to her song catalog. Her solo songs aren't overly significant and she only did part of the song writing with Fleetwood Mac.

I would assume passing on cash to the next generation is easier than managing a song catalog, especially if heirs aren't in to the music industry. That entire industry is pretty much scum when it comes to screwing over anyone you can.

Aren't there companies who manage royalties for songwriters, tracking airtime plays, online plays, etc.?

Or do the artists trust the music company they signed with to do this?

I saw a rapper online show a 6 figure royalty check which opened my eyes. Don't know if it was an annual check, quarterly or something else. But it did reveal the importance of owning your music, a mistake that many artists overlook or relinquish (in their contract).

 

[August_West]

No basketball so lets talk about the music industry.

I can't find a sales figure but the song rights appear to be valued over $200 million. Its reported they were purchased but the Universal Music Group. UMG is the world's top music company (I never knew).

Its his to do what he wants, but I'm not that familiar with the intricacies of the music industry and curious as to who the winner is in this deal. Since royalties are considered inheritances of the estate, I wonder if the cash is easier to pass down than an income stream. I wonder if Elton John, Stevie Wonder and other legendary songwriters will follow.

Its not like Bob (almost 80 years old) needed the money, so what's the advantage to losing a lifetime of royalties and control? More importantly, will this affect us fans and music listeners?

The deal is closer to 300 million. Sony was already administering his catalog worldwide. Music copyright is a sellers market right now. If he was ever going to sell. This was the moment. And UMG is a traditional publishing house with a long history instead of venture capitalists.

 

[Kitaman]

Music copyright is a sellers market right now. If he was ever going to sell. This was the moment.

Why is this?

 

[formerlurker]

Stevie Nicks just sold hers too for $100 million

Stevie Nicks sold the copyrights to some of her most popular songs in a deal reportedly valued at $100 million

Nicks' 43-year-old song "Dreams" reentered Billboard music charts after a viral TikTok and alerted investors to her streaming potential.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[nelsonmuntz]

David Bowie made financial history with music bond

David Bowie launched one of the first bonds funded by a back catalog and the term 'Bowie Bonds' was born, even if the investment wasn't great.

money.cnn.com

David Bowie did something a little more exotic in 1997, and he made out pretty well. Between music sharing, and an increase of people just buying single songs instead of entire albums, the value of royalties declined dramatically starting in the late 90's. Bowie, who was forward thinking on a lot of things, monetized his catalog before the true financial impact of these changes were felt by the recording industry.

Subscription services have turned the revenue model around after about 15 years of declines for the industry, so Dylan's royalty stream is worth a lot more now than it was 10 years ago. Maybe Dylan just wants the cash now.

 

[August_West]

Why is this?

There is a rush to make these kinds of big purchases because the upcoming administrations tax changes may not be as favorable for these types of investments.
Publishing and copyright are strong right now for last couple years as licensing for streaming services has shaken out. They are solid assets.

 

[Chuck]

The deal is closer to 300 million. Sony was already administering his catalog worldwide. Music copyright is a sellers market right now. If he was ever going to sell. This was the moment. And UMG is a traditional publishing house with a long history instead of venture capitalists.

Are you speaking from expertise (do you even eat at Arby's)? Just curious. I'm not in the industry, but have a few friends that are and I find it interesting. It seems like streaming has destroyed the money in recorded music? Are they artists taking the biggest hit, or the record companies similarly impacted? It seems like the real money has been in live performances (until COVID).

I can see value in iconic songs, I guess, and Dylan certainly has many. How will UMG monetize that $200 -$300mm? Is it a long play? Commercials/movies? Pull the music from Spotify/Apple, etc.?

 

[Chin Diesel]

There is a rush to make these kinds of big purchases because the upcoming administrations tax changes may not be as favorable for these types of investments.
Publishing and copyright are strong right now for last couple years as licensing for streaming services has shaken out. They are solid assets.

David Bowie had such a strong record (no pun intended) of generating money, his income was used to secure bonds for others.

The Whole Story Behind David Bowie's $55 Million Wall Street Trailblaze | Billboard

 

[HobokenHusky]

I can see Dylan getting that kind of $$$$. He's got 30-40 years of product out there that a good chunk of the population enjoyed at one time or another.

What blew me away was hearing Stevie Nicks getting a reported $100M for the rights to her song catalog. Her solo songs aren't overly significant and she only did part of the song writing with Fleetwood Mac.

I would assume passing on cash to the next generation is easier than managing a song catalog, especially if heirs aren't in to the music industry. That entire industry is pretty much scum when it comes to screwing over anyone you can.

She has full songwriting credits for Rhiannon, Landslide, Dreams, Silver Springs, Gold Dust Woman, I don't want to know, Sara, Sisters of the Moon, Gypsy.

This is like half of their greatest hits. + Her solo stuff.

Bet they never thought whatever decision they came up with to spit song writing in their coked out early 20's was going to be deciding who gets 10s of millions of dollars a few decades later.

 

[BParkDog]

Maybe the guy, at 80, wanted to convert a non-liquid asset to a liquid asset because . . .
He wants to be able to give some money to charity, or
Buy a bigger house, or
Set up a trust for a child or grandchildren that has a large initial funding, or
Save 10-40% in taxes, or
He knows his life expectancy is . . . just 7 years.

If it's a 300 million deal, then, just guessing, the yearly revenue stream is probably 5-15 million.

In any event, Mega Corp has stretched copyrights out to the point that it seems that copyrights have effectively been made perpetual, so he definitely didn't make this decision for the kids - that revenue stream is probably going to be there for 100 years, and I can't imagine it shrinking too much.

 

[August_West]

Are you speaking from expertise (do you even eat at Arby's)? Just curious. I'm not in the industry, but have a few friends that are and I find it interesting. It seems like streaming has destroyed the money in recorded music? Are they artists taking the biggest hit, or the record companies similarly impacted? It seems like the real money has been in live performances (until COVID).

I can see value in iconic songs, I guess, and Dylan certainly has many. How will UMG monetize that $200 -$300mm? Is it a long play? Commercials/movies? Pull the music from Spotify/Apple, etc.?

Streaming a double edged sword. But the "artist rip off " thing is kind of a fallacy, are streaming rates low for artists? Yes. That is why you want to own your own publishing. The plus side of streaming is that the barrier of entry for distrubution of independent/diy artists is way lower than the old traditional model of "signed to a record company/agents/management, etc...
I have a friend who is an independent artist and owns his own publishing and a couple of his originals were put on to a very popular spotify playlist. So his songs have got millions of plays, and thank god because he cant tour for last 9 months, he gets some nice quarterly checks that keep him afloat. If he had an old traditional record company deal, he wouldnt have that.

UMG will monetize it by collecting streaming revenues, and commercials, and movies etc... No different than Dylan was doing himself through the sony adminstering that had been the going on for years.

Think of it as like Lottery, where if you hit the jackpot you can choose Lump sum or 20 annual payments. Dylan just chose "lump sum"

 

[8893]

I own every one of his songs and I paid way less than $300 million for them.

 

[August_West]

Think of it as like Lottery, where if you hit the jackpot you can choose Lump sum or 20 annual payments. Dylan just chose "lump sum"

and to hypothesize for why? My guess would be that at his age maybe he felt more comfortable making the decision himself rather than having his publishing passed on to "his estate" once (and I dread the day) he dies.

If you want a good reason for that, see: Frank Zappas family. What a nightmare that brood is and they have torn their family apart fighting over Franks musical leavings.

Jerry Garcia's estate fighting over the same has been no joy to watch either.

 

[CL82]

I thought this was going to be a "Dylan sold out" thread. I'm glad he was able to monetize his work in a way that worked well for him.

This probably is a as good a place as ever for a favorite Dylan song list.

I'm going with


May God bless and keep you always
May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
And climb on every rung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.

May you grow up to be righteous
May you grow up to be true
May you always know the truth
And see the lights surrounding you
May you always be courageous
Stand upright and be strong
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.

May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young

(Neil Young's cover is probably my favorite version.)

 

[JohnFSilver]

There is a rush to make these kinds of big purchases because the upcoming administrations tax changes may not be as favorable for these types of investments.
Publishing and copyright are strong right now for last couple years as licensing for streaming services has shaken out. They are solid assets.

Also, to bring this back to sports rights, content is king. There is such a demand for exclusive content -- that places are willing to pay for control of the content. Tech is so intricate and so advanced, that most content owners are unable to monetize their content efficiently. The hustle for Dylan to make $200M off his music would take too long and require too much work. Let someone else figure it out.

For any musician that went through the Napster era, take your money now. Probably the first industry that ever got the cat put back in the bag.[/QUOTE]

 

[Rocktheworld]

Stevie Nicks just sold hers too for $100 million

Stevie Nicks sold the copyrights to some of her most popular songs in a deal reportedly valued at $100 million

Nicks' 43-year-old song "Dreams" reentered Billboard music charts after a viral TikTok and alerted investors to her streaming potential.

www.businessinsider.com

Wow so Dylan only get double what Stevie freakin Nicks got?

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I own every one of his songs and I paid way less than $300 million for them.

"Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you a king"

I'm sure there's better, but I'm not gonna overthink a cheap laugh.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I own every one of his songs and I paid way less than $300 million for them.

And you've thus far escaped a cease and desist from Milton Glaser on your avatar.
A charmed life, I'd say.

 

[CL82]

Wow so Dylan only get double what Stevie freakin Nicks got?

$100 million here, 100 million there and eventually you are talking about real money.

 

[Chin Diesel]

She has full songwriting credits for Rhiannon, Landslide, Dreams, Silver Springs, Gold Dust Woman, I don't want to know, Sara, Sisters of the Moon, Gypsy.

This is like half of their greatest hits. + Her solo stuff.

Bet they never thought whatever decision they came up with to spit song writing in their coked out early 20's was going to be deciding who gets 10s of millions of dollars a few decades later.

That's pretty much my point. Four or five songs which have any sort of cache- Rhiannon, Landslide, Dreams and Gold Dust Woman. Great songs, but none are of historical significance in terms of history of rock. That's a lot of money for them. Not my money and I say good for her to get what she can. Just seems like a big overpay.

 

[BoukofJames]

Just don’t remove The Basement Tapes from Spotify...