Bo Jackson on CTE

[nelsonmuntz]

Bo Jackson says he would not have played football if he had known about CTE.

Bo Jackson reacts to blowback over CTE remarks

A lot of former players are saying this, but Bo is one of the highest profile. This sport is beginning a slow death spiral that will accelerate. To argue that football is driving the future college sports landscape is to ignore the most important factor in the future of sports.

Just to be clear, I think concussions will impact other sports too. I think basketball will have to change the way it calls charges so players are not encouraged to fall on their back. Soccer will have to do something about headers. But those are sports where players can get hurt. Football is a sport where players will get hurt, and now we know the damage is permanent, even if they just play through high school.

 

[Stinger92860]

Bo was/is unique. He could have played baseball. Remember that throw from the left field warning track to home plate! Regardless of the health issues, I believe kids are still going to play college and pro football to get out of poor home or economic conditions. IMO the colleges need to do more. Many kids graduate without any skills that can help them get jobs. What North Carolina has done is criminal. They are not alone. It's going to take lawsuits and transfer of money to get anyone to change.

 

[Adios]

Adjustments would be made before the game disappears. The game was created by the rich. And you think they're going to let it fade. As you can see, people still love playing football. Being melodramatic, as usual.

The only thing soccer can do about headers is ban them. Geez.

 

[geordi]

Nelson is right!!! Wow! I never thought I'd say THAT!

It will take a generation, but football will decline for a number of reasons. CTE is the biggest one, but one of the implications of that is that the feeder systems will dry up. First of all, it costs nearly $1000 to outfit a football player vs $75 for soccer or basketball. That's going to impact budgets. But more so, the Pop Warner leagues and high schools will not be able to afford the insurance to cover CTE. With the publicity on concussions expanding, parents just aren't going to let kids play football.

Of course, in the south, Alabama, Texas, etc, its not about safety but more about testosterone. Texas will still build 30,000 seat high school stadia and kids will still play. But the pool of players nationally will start to decrease.

Couple that with the demographics of a country in which whites will be less than 50% of the population in 25 years or so and the greed of the owners, pressure on city budgets that will not give owners windfalls in order to relocate, you have a recipe of decline of the program.

 

[Adios]

Nelson is right!!! Wow! I never thought I'd say THAT!

It will take a generation, but football will decline for a number of reasons. CTE is the biggest one, but one of the implications of that is that the feeder systems will dry up. First of all, it costs nearly $1000 to outfit a football player vs $75 for soccer or basketball. That's going to impact budgets. But more so, the Pop Warner leagues and high schools will not be able to afford the insurance to cover CTE. With the publicity on concussions expanding, parents just aren't going to let kids play football.

Of course, in the south, Alabama, Texas, etc, its not about safety but more about testosterone. Texas will still build 30,000 seat high school stadia and kids will still play. But the pool of players nationally will start to decrease.

Couple that with the demographics of a country in which whites will be less than 50% of the population in 25 years or so and the greed of the owners, pressure on city budgets that will not give owners windfalls in order to relocate, you have a recipe of decline of the program.

As long as there's jobs in the NFL, football is not dying. Please. Have you heard LeBron James say he wishes he could play football?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson is right!!! Wow! I never thought I'd say THAT!

It will take a generation, but football will decline for a number of reasons. CTE is the biggest one, but one of the implications of that is that the feeder systems will dry up. First of all, it costs nearly $1000 to outfit a football player vs $75 for soccer or basketball. That's going to impact budgets. But more so, the Pop Warner leagues and high schools will not be able to afford the insurance to cover CTE. With the publicity on concussions expanding, parents just aren't going to let kids play football.

Of course, in the south, Alabama, Texas, etc, its not about safety but more about testosterone. Texas will still build 30,000 seat high school stadia and kids will still play. But the pool of players nationally will start to decrease.

Couple that with the demographics of a country in which whites will be less than 50% of the population in 25 years or so and the greed of the owners, pressure on city budgets that will not give owners windfalls in order to relocate, you have a recipe of decline of the program.

It could happen a lot sooner than a generation. Many rec football leagues went from town to multi-town years ago because numbers were dropping, and now several Connecticut high schools are pooling players to field a team. It won't take long for the wealthy to stop playing, and then stop watching. That will run off the advertisers, and the cycle would accelerate.

There is no way to fix this with technique or equipment without dramatically changing the game.

 

[Adios]

Packers-Cowboys is most-watched NFL Divisional Playoff game ever

 

[auggie22]

It could happen a lot sooner than a generation. Many rec football leagues went from town to multi-town years ago because numbers were dropping, and now several Connecticut high schools are pooling players to field a team. It won't take long for the wealthy to stop playing, and then stop watching. That will run off the advertisers, and the cycle would accelerate.

There is no way to fix this with technique or equipment without dramatically changing the game.

There are so many potential catalysts in the next decade, I believe you may be right that the end is closer than it seems.

From an article in the other thread (same topic) - a test that diagnoses early signs of cte on the living, would turbo-boost a decline in participation rates. Imagine what happens when your neighbor's kid sees subtle blotches in his scan .... shoot, just the stress associated with taking such a test would get some to quit. I don't think the incident rate would need to be particularly high to have a significant impact on the decision to continu playing.

When do health /life insurance policies reflect the risk in premiums? As it is a voluntary behavior - and with potentially expensive medical diagnostics on the horizon, treatments associated with early diagnosis, etc - the insurance industry could weigh in with discriminatory premiums for those individuals and families that choose to participate in organized football.

Another wave of high profile suicides could fast track class action lawsuits, or federal regulation.

More universities ( or high schools ) could make a show of killing their football programs as a statement, or to insulate themselves from future litigation as research into the topic ( or the positive diagnosis of a few current students) yields insights that are impossible to ignore. With fewer universities offering the sport, the competitive incentive to offer football simply to be like your peers would diminish and might allow schools that struggle financially an excuse to exit.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There are so many potential catalysts in the next decade, I believe you may be right that the end is closer than it seems.

From an article in the other thread (same topic) - a test that diagnoses early signs of cte on the living, would turbo-boost a decline in participation rates. Imagine what happens when your neighbor's kid sees subtle blotches in his scan .... shoot, just the stress associated with taking such a test would get some to quit. I don't think the incident rate would need to be particularly high to have a significant impact on the decision to continu playing.

When do health /life insurance policies reflect the risk in premiums? As it is a voluntary behavior - and with potentially expensive medical diagnostics on the horizon, treatments associated with early diagnosis, etc - the insurance industry could weigh in with discriminatory premiums for those individuals and families that choose to participate in organized football.

Another wave of high profile suicides could fast track class action lawsuits, or federal regulation.

More universities ( or high schools ) could make a show of killing their football programs as a statement, or to insulate themselves from future litigation as research into the topic ( or the positive diagnosis of a few current students) yields insights that are impossible to ignore. With fewer universities offering the sport, the competitive incentive to offer football simply to be like your peers would diminish and might allow schools that struggle financially an excuse to exit.

Great points. I suspect that football shows up in other legal areas, such as custody battles, already. One parents desire to have a child play a sport that is proven to result in long-term injury could impact a judge's decision on their fitness as a parent.

Pop Warner recently settled a case in Wisconsin with the mom of a 25 year old man that killed himself after suffering from CTE, which he likely got from playing youth football between 11 and 14 years old.

I think a parent would have to be nuts to coach football, because it won't be long before youth football coaches are getting sued too.

 

[ZooCougar]

The sport has to change and in a pretty fundamental way, otherwise it's going to marginalize itself. First it will remain popular to watch but not popular to play and then people will just stop watching when they can no longer relate to it. Change or die.

 

[Adios]

Let me get this right. People put their lives on the line to join the military or police, for whatever reason. Some of you think people will stop hoping to play football for millions of dollars? Ever hear of MMA? Might as well ban that, too.

 

[auggie22]

Let me get this right. People put their lives on the line to join the military or police, for whatever reason. Some of you think people will stop hoping to play football for millions of dollars? Ever hear of MMA? Might as well ban that, too.

I don't think football disappears entirely, I just think it becomes more of a niche sport like boxing or MMA.

What makes football unlike MMA today is that it is broadly popular, with a relatively high rate of participation starting at the youth level.

This is such a big deal with football because it seems we are only now realizing - after 50 years of mainstream popularity - the significant risks associated with participation.

The people that have chosen the MMA or boxing route seem to me to be largely the thrill seekers and the desperate. Even in the nuclear scenario for football, there would be those that still choose to play ... but you better believe there would be far fewer people who self- identify. And there would be a much smaller audience watching the games.

With so many sports as substitute, what kind of parent would funnel their kid to football once they understand the links to cte - and especially once they are presented with the ability to diagnose the onset of permanent brain trauma, while their children are still living? The risks become too real to ignore or to hope away. I'm already there with my kids...

How many universities still sponsor boxing, or have scholarship MMA programs?

 

[Adios]

I don't think football disappears entirely, I just think it becomes more of a niche sport like boxing or MMA.

What makes football unlike MMA today is that it is broadly popular, with a relatively high rate of participation starting at the youth level.

This is such a big deal with football because it seems we are only now realizing - after 50 years of mainstream popularity - the significant risks associated with participation.

The people that have chosen the MMA or boxing route seem to me to be largely the thrill seekers and the desperate. Even in the nuclear scenario for football, there would be those that still choose to play ... but you better believe there would be far fewer people who self- identify. And there would be a much smaller audience watching the games.

With so many sports as substitute, what kind of parent would funnel their kid to football once they understand the links to cte - and especially once they are presented with the ability to diagnose the onset of permanent brain trauma, while their children are still living? The risks become too real to ignore or to hope away. I'm already there with my kids...

How many universities still sponsor boxing, or have scholarship MMA programs?

We'll see how that turns out. But technically, they knew it was a brutal sport for over 100 years. Teddy Roosevelt had to step in because people were dying on football fields.

 

[auggie22]

The sport has to change and in a pretty fundamental way, otherwise it's going to marginalize itself. First it will remain popular to watch but not popular to play and then people will just stop watching when they can no longer relate to it. Change or die.

Unless change also means death. How fundamentally can you change football where the risks are appropriately reduced, before it ceases to be popular? The NFL sure doesn't seem in a hurry to find out.

 

[Adios]

Unless change also means death. How fundamentally can you change football where the risks are appropriately reduced, before it ceases to be popular? The NFL sure doesn't seem in a hurry to find out.

Sadly, violence sells. Just look at video games. There's old-time fans who are displeased that the NFL is not hard hitting as it used to be.

 

[UCHuskies08]

As long as there's jobs in the NFL, football is not dying. Please. Have you heard LeBron James say he wishes he could play football?

You need to take a long view of things. Is football going to wither up next year? Obviously not. In 20, 30, 40 years? Definite chance.

 

[Adios]

You need to take a long view of things. Is football going to wither up next year? Obviously not. In 20, 30, 40 years? Definite chance.

I do. I am surprised you'd think I look short term. Many posts usually indicate I look long term.

Remember the movie, "Running Man"?

 

[whaler11]

I do. I am surprised you'd think I look short term. Many posts usually indicate I look long term.

Remember the movie, "Running Man"?

I celebrate Richard Dawson's whole catalog.

 

[atom58]

Several things are worth saying, whether they will be appreciated or not. Bo Jackson unlike many other FB players had "options" - he was in MLB too I recall. If you are highly athletic but not tall enough for BB and so forth, then FB or MLB are the "shortest" routes to riches, pardon that pun. The possibility of millions cannot be overlooked by someone who has that talent and does not have a trust fund.

I once read that the most dangerous occupation in the USA was not coal miner but "sanitation worker", the guys on garbage trucks. I also read that the group of athletes with the 2nd highest concussion rates was women lacrosse players - they don't wear helmets, do they? Technology will find a solution to minimize concussions - better helmet technology is inevitable. Also, neuroscientists used to believe that central nervous system neurons did not regenerate - there is some evidence against that long held view now. Finally, the health food people will tell you that lecithin and coconut oil have anecdotally been found to help dementia - in one case the husband of a lady physician.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Also, neuroscientists used to believe that central nervous system neurons did not regenerate - there is some evidence against that long held view now.

Link?

 

[atom58]

Link?

It was once thought impossible but it is now known that birds do this and evidently in subcortical neurons in the human brain.

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-animals-which-can-regenerate-brain-nerve-cells

Axon Regeneration in the Peripheral and Central Nervous Systems

 

[Rocktheworld]

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-animals-which-can-regenerate-brain-nerve-cells

Found a link from a study that actually investigated the phenomenon in humans that did find new cell generation, migration, and differentiation

Neurogenesis in the adult human hippocampus - Nature Medicine

Which is really interesting, but there is a difference between "regeneration" i.e. cloning, and "generation"; every nerve cell has many different connections and strengths of connections from a lifetime of learning, but these newly generated cells are starting from scratch. Is there a specific response to damage in specific areas i.e. do generated cells "know" where to re-populate? And does this generation of new neurons actually result in any kind of functional change? I think a lot of this stuff may have to stay theoretical.

Axon Regeneration in the Peripheral and Central Nervous Systems

Now that's interesting.

 

[ScottBonz]

I think russell Wilson has some water to sell you guys.

 

[Sky ball]

We'll see how that turns out. But technically, they knew it was a brutal sport for over 100 years. Teddy Roosevelt had to step in because people were dying on football fields.

Would football be safer with less protective equipment? Thin leather helmets to avoid face/head scrapes and no pads. I would think the violent hitting would go down tremendously. Like the 1920's?

 

[auggie22]

It is a tall hurdle for the NFL here, I think. Seems that concussive impact is not necessarily the driver for CTE ... if I understand the subject correctly. It is the frequent sub concussive impact. Can you take hitting out of the game - through rules or even technology innovation - without completely changing the game?

 

[superjohn]

Bo Jackson says he would not have played football if he had known about CTE.

Bo Jackson reacts to blowback over CTE remarks

A lot of former players are saying this, but Bo is one of the highest profile. This sport is beginning a slow death spiral that will accelerate. To argue that football is driving the future college sports landscape is to ignore the most important factor in the future of sports.

Just to be clear, I think concussions will impact other sports too. I think basketball will have to change the way it calls charges so players are not encouraged to fall on their back. Soccer will have to do something about headers. But those are sports where players can get hurt. Football is a sport where players will get hurt, and now we know the damage is permanent, even if they just play through high school.

I agree with you but when there is so much money on the line I don't really see how it disappears.

 

[billybud]

Sports may change...

I sometimes worry about my son...who played competitive soccer for years, from age 7 and on competitive teams from age 11 through the college level.

Medical studies have reported changes in brain anatomy of soccer players — particularly, a thinning of the cortex — associated with slower cognition.

Already there are calls to ban "heading" in youth and high school soccer.....it would not surprise me to see "the beautiful game" undergo some changes, in the US at least.

 

[Chuck]

Sports may change...

I sometimes worry about my son...who played competitive soccer for years, from age 7 and on competitive teams from age 11 through the college level.

Medical studies have reported changes in brain anatomy of soccer players — particularly, a thinning of the cortex — associated with slower cognition.

Already there are calls to ban "heading" in youth and high school soccer.....it would not surprise me to see "the beautiful game" undergo some changes, in the US at least.

Just an fyi, US Soccer already bans heading up to U11. At U12 they can head in games, but not in practice. It did change the game because the boys (at U9) were heading the ball regularly. A headed ball results in an indirect free kick for the other team. After 1.5 years, the boys are much better at using other parts of their body on punts, but corner kicks are definitely impacted. The girls never liked to head the ball anyway, so we haven't seen much impact.

Re football, my small town of 11,000 has been a small school power in NJ over the years. This year, they could not field a team for 5th grade. I don't know parents that have told their kids they can't play football where the kid really wanted to play, but I know parents who have dissuaded their kids potential interest. There will still be plenty of kids that will play football, but I can see it losing popularity overall, and if the NFL doesn't do something it could go the way of boxing where only kids that need a way out pursue a career.

 

[billybud]

Football, in Florida, seems as strong as ever in interest.

Baseball is also strong...in many communities, the better two sport athletes choose competitive baseball over soccer (overlap in seasons). For black residents, it is basketball and football.

Soccer is still, in Florida, a middle class, uniquely white sport as is baseball. While we have made inroads into black inclusion, it has been slow. When I began playin soccer,, 40 years ago, we opened the first soccer field in town...and there were a few of us ex rugby guys playing with guys from Argentina, France, England, Nigeria, Tanzania...our team played competitively as the "Green Cards".

I love the sport, having played and coached and sitting as a board member of the North Florida association.

Heading is an integral part of the game...and by the time a kid has finished his college career, if he goes that far, he has headed countless balls. I do worry about that aspect of the sport.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Basketball can probably eliminate half its concussions by changing the way charges are called. It does not say anywhere in the rules that a player has to fall on their back to draw a charge, yet 90% of referees will not give the offensive foul call unless the defender falls down. It is a stupid practice and very dangerous to the players, not just because of concussions, but because a player on the ground in the paint can cause knees and ankle injuries too. If you remember, Desean Butler blew out his knee after landing on a flopped defender, and it effectively ended any chance he had of playing in the NBA.

I saw a study where high school girls are 3 times as likely to have a concussion as boys, and the belief is that the way charges are called plays a big role in it because girls draw more charges than boys, and girls' necks are not as strong so they often go down harder.

I really hate the way charges are called.