Bleacher Report List of Greatest Coaches

[easttexastrash]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...asketball-coaches-ever-male-or-female/page/51

Not sure if this was previously discussed. I apologize if it was and I missed it.

 

[JS]

Geno's lofty ranking in this subjective treatment comes as no surprise. His record is brilliant.

Pat's No. 1 ranking is eminently defensible but is based in large part on gross numbers over a super-long career as a successful head coach.

As the article notes, Geno has plenty of time to amass more records on top of his already stellar accumulation. He has reached the major career milestones faster than Pat did.

Moreover, giving her credit for the fact that much of what she did was while Geno was on the scene is a dubious point, at least to the extent it implies she held her own against him. She didn't.

Her head-to-head record against him is poor, especially in championship games. And it would've been poorer still if she hadn't cut the number of head to head games down, and then out during a period of UConn preeminence.

In my opinion, despite her obvious strengths, especially as a motivator, he's a better all-around coach -- most clearly at coaching offense.

I hope this thread does not follow my example and proceeds to compare other coaches than just Geno and Pat, so that it doesn't become yet another UConn/Tennessee deal. We seem to get about five minutes respite between the end of one such thread and a posted news item that spurs another.

 

[pinotbear]

I'd rank Denny Crum higher. Andy Landers (among others) higher than Denny? Same hair, perhaps, whole different record.

 

[Buzzyboy]

What I find amazing is that Sylvia Hatchell is in 20th place ahead of people like Rick Pitino (who is 34th) and Tom Izzo who is a little ahead of Rick. There is no way in ten billion years that she is a shadow of the coach that either of these people are. I'm thinking it has more to do with the amount of wins than their actual achievements. What a crying shame, indeed! Muffin McGraw is much lower rated and they give the Baylor coach all the superlatives in the world and most of anything she's accomplished has had to do with Britney Griner and her alone. Without Griner, Baylor is probably not even a top 10 program. I do admit that I hold her in higher regard than Hatchell but that's because I've never since a team get blown out so much by so many teams, even teams that weren't overly outstanding. I can't imagine Geno with scrubs ever getting beaten as badly as some of Hatchells teams have been.

 

[alexrgct]

Bleacher Report isn't worth the paper it's not printed on.

Nice pics though.

Way too much emphasis on longevity in that list.

The concept of a combined men's-women's list is silly.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I think John Wooden has to be #1. He taught a complete game and had more championships. Pat taught defense and rebounding.

 

[doggydaddy]

Who is better?

 

[easttexastrash]

What I find amazing is that Sylvia Hatchell is in 20th place ahead of people like Rick Pitino (who is 34th) and Tom Izzo who is a little ahead of Rick. There is no way in ten billion years that she is a shadow of the coach that either of these people are. I'm thinking it has more to do with the amount of wins than their actual achievements. What a crying shame, indeed! Muffin McGraw is much lower rated and they give the Baylor coach all the superlatives in the world and most of anything she's accomplished has had to do with Britney Griner and her alone. Without Griner, Baylor is probably not even a top 10 program. I do admit that I hold her in higher regard than Hatchell but that's because I've never since a team get blown out so much by so many teams, even teams that weren't overly outstanding. I can't imagine Geno with scrubs ever getting beaten as badly as some of Hatchells teams have been.

Maybe you missed the 2005 championship that BG wasn't a part of? How many other coaches have multiple NCAA championships on the women's side?

 

[vtcwbuff]

A best ever list of coaches from both the men's and women's games is stooooopid.

 

[VAMike23]

Who is better?

A good chuckle....

 

[easttexastrash]

I'll have to research how many of the college coaches listed never won a national championship.

 

[pap49cba]

As Alex said earlier, BR is a rag. Their lists of the 10 or 20 greatest whatevers are dubious at best. They mask their idiocy with slick graphics and photos.

 

[easttexastrash]

As Alex said earlier, BR is a rag. Their lists of the 10 or 20 greatest whatevers are dubious at best. They mask their idiocy with slick graphics and photos.

They appeared on their own list of "Top Websites" at number 1, so how could the number one site be so off base?

 

[pap49cba]

They appeared on their own list of "Top Websites" at number 1, so how could the number one site be so off base?

Kind of proves the point doesn't it?"

 

[Icebear]

As Alex said earlier, BR is a rag. Their lists of the 10 or 20 greatest whatevers are dubious at best. They mask their idiocy with slick graphics and photos.

You over praise them.

 

[easttexastrash]

I think that a lot of the comments attached to their list are correct.

1. Wooden is the greatest coach of all time up until this point.

2. Women's basketball cannot be compared to men's basketball. As impressive as Pat's victory total is I think that most will agree that a very high percentage of women's games are less than competitive and the outcome is usually known before the game even begins. All of the top players flock to the same few schools, and like this year, there is a big drop after the top three or four schools. Wins and titles simply cannot be compared between men's and women's basketball.

 

[Husky7882]

Geno's lofty ranking in this subjective treatment comes as no surprise. His record is brilliant.

Pat's No. 1 ranking is eminently defensible but is based in large part on gross numbers over a super-long career as a successful head coach.

As the article notes, Geno has plenty of time to amass more records on top of his already stellar accumulation. He has reached the major career milestones faster than Pat did.

Moreover, giving her credit for the fact that much of what she did was while Geno was on the scene is a dubious point, at least to the extent it implies she held her own against him. She didn't.

Her head-to-head record against him is poor, especially in championship games. And it would've been poorer still if she hadn't cut the number of head to head games down, and then out during a period of UConn preeminence.

In my opinion, despite her obvious strengths, especially as a motivator, he's a better all-around coach -- most clearly at coaching offense.

I hope this thread does not follow my example and proceeds to compare other coaches than just Geno and Pat, so that it doesn't become yet another UConn/Tennessee deal. We seem to get about five minutes respite between the end of one such thread and a posted news item that spurs another.

+1
Well said, JS!

 

[uconnfan68]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...asketball-coaches-ever-male-or-female/page/51

Not sure if this was previously discussed. I apologize if it was and I missed it.

Wow, what a funky list. Must have been typing monkeys.

 

[Kibitzer]

I have several reactions to the list.
Silly to compare men's and women's coaches.
Longevity counted for too much.
Many questionable calls (Muffett is clearly under-rated, Hatchell and Mulkey over-rated, just for starters).
Men's basketball has had two distinctly different eras: first, when players stayed four years; and second, since the best players opt to leave early for the NBA. Coaches who were good in either one might have failed in the other (think Wooden and Calhoun). Boeheim is among the few (yes, there were a few others) who transcend both eras successfully.

Now a couple unpopular opinions.

Leon Barmore deserves #2 best women's coach behind Geno.

Did I miss Nat Holman on the list? (His team, CCNY, won NIT when it was The Big One AND the NCAA same year, about 1950.) And what about Al McGuire, was he there?

I think Wooden is the most over-rated coach of all. He was a very good coach for many years, then Sam Gilbert took over the recruiting and Wooden became a genius. He (like Rupp and Summitt) was not only the great beneficiary of a philanthropic booster (generous to realtors, car dealers and working girls alike) but lucky to have players like Alcindor (Abdul-Jabbar), Goodrich and Walton hang around for four years (and they probably took a pay cut when they went pro).

Summitt and Rupp were lucky (I don't blame them) by being the only really good coaches in a perpetually weak conference while blessed with solid institutional support and a rabid fan base. Pat's luck ran out when Geno arrived and Rupp's ran out when he met Don Haskins. She lost her dominance and he just lost.

Bobby Knight is a jerk but as good a basketball coach who ever tossed a chair. Or a tantrum.

 

[cohenzone]

I have several reactions to the list.
Silly to compare men's and women's coaches.
Longevity counted for too much.
Many questionable calls (Muffett is clearly under-rated, Hatchell and Mulkey over-rated, just for starters).
Men's basketball has had two distinctly different eras: first, when players stayed four years; and second, since the best players opt to leave early for the NBA. Coaches who were good in either one might have failed in the other (think Wooden and Calhoun). Boeheim is among the few (yes, there were a few others) who transcend both eras successfully.

Now a couple unpopular opinions.

Leon Barmore deserves #2 best women's coach behind Geno.

Did I miss Nat Holman on the list? (His team, CCNY, won NIT when it was The Big One AND the NCAA same year, about 1950.) And what about Al McGuire, was he there?

I think Wooden is the most over-rated coach of all. He was a very good coach for many years, then Sam Gilbert took over the recruiting and Wooden became a genius. He (like Rupp and Summitt) was not only the great beneficiary of a philanthropic booster (generous to realtors, car dealers and working girls alike) but lucky to have players like Alcindor (Abdul-Jabbar), Goodrich and Walton hang around for four years (and they probably took a pay cut when they went pro).

Summitt and Rupp were lucky (I don't blame them) by being the only really good coaches in a perpetually weak conference while blessed with solid institutional support and a rabid fan base. Pat's luck ran out when Geno arrived and Rupp's ran out when he met Don Haskins. She lost her dominance and he just lost.

Bobby Knight is a jerk but as good a basketball coach who ever tossed a chair. Or a tantrum.

These lists are, of course, totally arguable. In Wooden's case, I'm not so sure he was over-rated. It's true that he got a whole lot of talent, but his teams played excellent team basketball. He got a team of all-stars to play together year after year after year. One could argue that Dean Smith should be number 1. He was a great innovator compared to almost every one else. Then there's Pete Carill, the coach nobody liked to play against, ditto for John Chaney. Aggravating and successful styles with usually less than overall great talent. There are so many people not on the list, like two guys from St.Johns's named Lapchick and Carnesseca who could coach circles around a lot of the people on that list.

 

[Kibitzer]

These lists are, of course, totally arguable. In Wooden's case, I'm not so sure he was over-rated. It's true that he got a whole lot of talent, but his teams played excellent team basketball. He got a team of all-stars to play together year after year after year. One could argue that Dean Smith should be number 1. He was a great innovator compared to almost every one else. Then there's Pete Carill, the coach nobody liked to play against, ditto for John Chaney. Aggravating and successful styles with usually less than overall great talent. There are so many people not on the list, like two guys from St.Johns's named Lapchick and Carnesseca who could coach circles around a lot of the people on that list.

Agree completely about Carill, Chaney, Lapchick and Louie.

Another couple of considerations about Wooden. While true that he was an excellent coach of disciplined teams, it did take him 15 years to win his first NC.

And back in the day (before his last NC, in 1975), there were only 16 teams, in four divisions, in the NCAA tournament. Thus, if UCLA won two games in the West, they qualified for the Final Four the following weekend.

Twice UCLA played both West games at Pauley Pavilion and on two other occasions the Final Four (2 games) was played at the LA Sports Arena. We can only speculate how Wooden would have done in a 64-team field and without "Daddy Sam" dispensing gifts.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Maybe you missed the 2005 championship that BG wasn't a part of? How many other coaches have multiple NCAA championships on the women's side?

Are you kidding me?????? Of course, I was aware that she had had a championship before Griner. However, as of 2008, who would even mention her name in the top 10 coaches of today, much less on the alltime list of coaches ahead of Rick Pitino and Tom Izzo who have done their magic year after year. The idea that at least at this point of her career that she should be anywhere near these hall of fame coaches much less ahead of them in ranking is absurd. I have already granted that she's a very good coach and good motivator but to be rated that highly is absurd and your defense, as always, is very weak.

 

[meyers7]

Bobby Knight is a jerk but as good a basketball coach who ever tossed a chair. Or a tantrum.

His teams did always know how to play the game.

 

[easttexastrash]

Are you kidding me?????? Of course, I was aware that she had had a championship before Griner. However, as of 2008, who would even mention her name in the top 10 coaches of today, much less on the alltime list of coaches ahead of Rick Pitino and Tom Izzo who have done their magic year after year. The idea that at least at this point of her career that she should be anywhere near these hall of fame coaches much less ahead of them in ranking is absurd. I have already granted that she's a very good coach and good motivator but to be rated that highly is absurd and your defense, as always, is very weak.

Buzzyboy, I agree that Mulkey is rated too highly and I never argued that she wasn't. I was simply correcting you on the comment that Mulkey had never done anything other than where Griner was involved. Mulkey will be around for a long time and will continue to field good, and occasionally, great teams.

Simmer down, now.

 

[JimGunther]

Wasn't anyone surprised at the number of Women's coaches were even ON the list?

These things usually just have a couple tokens.