Big East Conference Meetings

[CTBballfan243]

I wonder what Notre Dame offered up to help strengthen the conference. ND: "We will agree to play Syracuse, Pittsburgh and BC every year in football. Also, we will agree to take the Big Easts BCS bowl bid if we win more than 6 games a year". Marinnatto: Kneeling, "Thank you father, you don't know what this means to our conference. Providence, St John's, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Depaul and the rest of the basketball schools can continue leaching money off of the football schools".

 

[ConnHuskBask]

No, probably just offered to help with our basketball contract by being a nationally recognized program, and to help out with the tie-in for our conferences second place teams bowl.

 

[danlow1963]

No, probably just offered to help with our basketball contract by being a nationally recognized program, and to help out with the tie-in for our conferences second place teams bowl.

We don't, nor have we EVER needed there help with any basketball contract, they recieved more in basketball than they gave, not to mention a home for their olympic sports, and while I do think there presence has helped with bowl tie ins to an extent, they've given little to the conference in football on the field. Screw ND. (not their fans, the fans I met in South Bend were the best I've ever come across)

 

[ConnHuskBask]

We don't, nor have we EVER needed there help with any basketball contract, they recieved more in basketball than they gave, not to mention a home for their olympic sports, and while I do think there presence has helped with bowl tie ins to an extent, they've given little to the conference in football on the field. Screw ND. (not their fans, the fans I met in South Bend were the best I've ever come across)

Yeah, we're definitely in a position to get rid of national programs with the loss of Syracuse and Pittsburgh.

Again, this is a business. Nobody is making decisions out of spite. If you don't think ND in a basketball conference that just lost 2 of it's best programs won't help then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[danlow1963]

Its not spite, its analyzing what the programs you associate with conference wise bring to the table, and since it is all about business and the driving force in the business is football, ND has done little to nothing in the past to help us there and will not step in now to do anything. The truth is, ND could have ended all of this with a commitment to the Big East. They can do what they want, and don't need to make decisions on what's best for the other teams, but the real question is if the presence of ND in our conference in the other sports is helping or hurting. I would argue that ND's presence made some in the conference delay facing the inevitable and prevented us dealing with the real weaknesses in the league due to the fractured nature of the various members' goals. The thought that we NEED ND is the reason we're here. We need them if they're all in (which we know they won't be) otherwise, we need to move on without them.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Its not spite, its analyzing what the programs you associate with conference wise bring to the table, and since it is all about business and the driving force in the business is football, ND has done little to nothing in the past to help us there and will not step in now to do anything. The truth is, ND could have ended all of this with a commitment to the Big East. They can do what they want, and don't need to make decisions on what's best for the other teams, but the real question is if the presence of ND in our conference in the other sports is helping or hurting. I would argue that ND's presence made some in the conference delay facing the inevitable and prevented us dealing with the real weaknesses in the league due to the fractured nature of the various members' goals. The thought that we NEED ND is the reason we're here. We need them if they're all in (which we know they won't be) otherwise, we need to move on without them.

Sorry, but that's utterly ridiculous. ND doesn't add to the basketball contract? By what set of criteria do you use?

National following/brand. Yes.
Games on national tv frequently? They had 15 games last year on national tv.
Winning/success. They are in the NCAAs practically every year, so there earning the NCAA Tourney credits.
Football side. Our #2nd place bowl game is a result of our tie in w ND. Do you really think we're in a position to be getting rid of any football chips we have now?

Aside from all of this, the catholic schools would never vote ND out, because in the unlikely case there is a split, they would want to be aligned with them. Why? Because of all the reasons listed above.

So if you want to list specific reasons why ND is "hurting" the conferences, I'd be all for a debate. Just I think you're going to have a hard time finding any.

 

[danlow1963]

Sorry, but that's utterly ridiculous. ND doesn't add to the basketball contract? By what set of criteria do you use?

National following/brand. Yes.
Games on national tv frequently? They had 15 games last year on national tv.
Winning/success. They are in the NCAAs practically every year, so there earning the NCAA Tourney credits.
Football side. Our #2nd place bowl game is a result of our tie in w ND. Do you really think we're in a position to be getting rid of any football chips we have now?

Aside from all of this, the catholic schools would never vote ND out, because in the unlikely case there is a split, they would want to be aligned with them. Why? Because of all the reasons listed above.

So if you want to list specific reasons why ND is "hurting" the conferences, I'd be all for a debate. Just I think you're going to have a hard time finding any.

I'm not sure if you read all the post or just ignored where I said it was ALL about football. If it wasn't, the best basketball conference in history wouldn't be coming apart at the seams right now. I know you've said your a fan of the hybrid conference, and if that's the case we're probably never going to agree on the ND issue. There's a reason no other major conference has anything close to a hybrid structure, because it doesn't work. We can spend days arguing why it happened and I know the Big East is a unique conference because of its basketbal roots, but the members have divergent goals that don't mesh. I for one, don't think our second place bowl tie in is worth the cost. Its not like it kept us together did it? And, I agree on your catholic schools argument, why, because they're only about basketball.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I'm not sure if you read all the post or just ignored where I said it was ALL about football. If it wasn't, the best basketball conference in history wouldn't be coming apart at the seams right now. I know you've said your a fan of the hybrid conference, and if that's the case we're probably never going to agree on the ND issue. There's a reason no other major conference has anything close to a hybrid structure, because it doesn't work. We can spend days arguing why it happened and I know the Big East is a unique conference because of its basketbal roots, but the members have divergent goals that don't mesh. I for one, don't think our second place bowl tie in is worth the cost. Its not like it kept us together did it? And, I agree on your catholic schools argument, why, because they're only about basketball.

You have to realize, the failure of the conference has nothing to do with the hybrid model.

Say in 2003 we split, add ECU, Temple, UCF, etc. for all sports. Flashforward to 2011, the ACC invites Syracuse and Pitt, do they still accept the invite? They still say yes without a shadow of a doubt. The reason the Big East has been susceptible to raids is because we don't have the football brand name power that other conferences have. What have the basketball onlies prevented us from doing so far? We wanted TCU, we got TCU. A 9 team football conference would have been ideal for our purposes (round robin schedule 4H-4A games) and it wouldn't have diluted the per team payout as much as adding 3 more schools would have.

That doesn't change if we drop the basketball schools. What does change is we go from at least being relevant in hoops, to being the 2nd best conference in our own footprint. Since football does drive the bus, how is it smart to get rid of our 2nd place bowl tie in? You really want the 2nd place team going to Charlotte?

Football does drive the bus when it comes to conference football contracts. To totally dismiss basketball and get rid of it based on assumptions, hyperbole and internet message board dogma is silly.

 

[ctchamps]

I'm not sure if you read all the post or just ignored where I said it was ALL about football. If it wasn't, the best basketball conference in history wouldn't be coming apart at the seams right now. I know you've said your a fan of the hybrid conference, and if that's the case we're probably never going to agree on the ND issue. There's a reason no other major conference has anything close to a hybrid structure, because it doesn't work. We can spend days arguing why it happened and I know the Big East is a unique conference because of its basketbal roots, but the members have divergent goals that don't mesh. I for one, don't think our second place bowl tie in is worth the cost. Its not like it kept us together did it? And, I agree on your catholic schools argument, why, because they're only about basketball.

Technically it isn't only about football either otherwise the B12 wouldn't be in such a mess.

 

[SAMCRO]

Wrong. We had the brand names when the first raid happened. A big reason teams were ripe for the picking was the hybrid model.

You have to realize, the failure of the conference has nothing to do with the hybrid model.

Say in 2003 we split, add ECU, Temple, UCF, etc. for all sports. Flashforward to 2011, the ACC invites Syracuse and Pitt, do they still accept the invite? They still say yes without a shadow of a doubt. The reason the Big East has been susceptible to raids is because we don't have the football brand name power that other conferences have. What have the basketball onlies prevented us from doing so far? We wanted TCU, we got TCU. A 9 team football conference would have been ideal for our purposes (round robin schedule 4H-4A games) and it wouldn't have diluted the per team payout as much as adding 3 more schools would have.

That doesn't change if we drop the basketball schools. What does change is we go from at least being relevant in hoops, to being the 2nd best conference in our own footprint. Since football does drive the bus, how is it smart to get rid of our 2nd place bowl tie in? You really want the 2nd place team going to Charlotte?

Football does drive the bus when it comes to conference football contracts. To totally dismiss basketball and get rid of it based on assumptions, hyperbole and internet message board dogma is silly.

 

[danlow1963]

Technically it isn't only about football either otherwise the B12 wouldn't be in such a mess.

The Big 12 is in such a mess for one reason, Bevo and their TV network. Otherwise noone leaves. In a way, it is the same problem we have in the BE, a member with an inordinate amount of power, prestige and money generating ability, holding the rest hostage. I have no ill will (despite my screw - em above) to ND. They can do what they want, but they have there own agenda that is counter to the rest of the members. and finally, they basketall onlies and their attempt to push Nova on the rest of the conference finally pushed Pitt and Cuse out.
And finally, Barker, 9 would be better than eight, but 12 is the number needed for a conference championship and there is no way the bball onlies were going to go to 22.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Wrong. We had the brand names when the first raid happened. A big reason teams were ripe for the picking was the hybrid model.

So the raid doesn't happen in 2003 if holding all things equal, we had dropped Nova, ND, Georgetown, PC, St. John's, and Seton Hall.

That's the reason. Black and white, it's just all so simplistic.

 

[SAMCRO]

So the raid doesn't happen in 2003 if holding all things equal, we had dropped Nova, ND, Georgetown, PC, St. John's, and Seton Hall.

That's the reason. Black and white, it's just all so simplistic.

Do you make a habit of putting words in people's mouths? Did i say or suggest we drop those schools? Any schools? No. I said the hybrid model was a big reason teams were ripe for the picking. It doesn't lend itself to stability when groups within the same organization have differing priorities/objectives. I think the FB schools should have split off years ago and allowed the BE to be what it was originally created to be, a BB league.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Do you make a habit of putting words in people's mouths? Did i say or suggest we drop those schools? Any schools? No. I said the hybrid model was a big reason teams were ripe for the picking. It doesn't lend itself to stability when groups within the same organization have differing priorities/objectives. I think the FB schools should have split off years ago and allowed the BE to be what it was originally created to be, a BB league.

lol.

 

[Mr.Phat]

The Big 12 is in such a mess for one reason, Bevo and their TV network. Otherwise noone leaves. In a way, it is the same problem we have in the BE, a member with an inordinate amount of power, prestige and money generating ability, holding the rest hostage. I have no ill will (despite my screw - em above) to ND. They can do what they want, but they have there own agenda that is counter to the rest of the members. and finally, they basketall onlies and their attempt to push Nova on the rest of the conference finally pushed Pitt and Cuse out.
And finally, Barker, 9 would be better than eight, but 12 is the number needed for a conference championship and there is no way the bball onlies were going to go to 22.

The difference is UT wants to retroactively stick its snout in the trough and get more than everyone else in the conference while ND's snout was already in the feed pen when the BE football side of the conference came together. I don't see the BE getting anything from ND yet Marionette and the puppetheads in the Paris of New England, Providence, allowed ND to join. If you think the Leprechauns are insufferable now wait about 8 weeks when the team has a good chance to run the table with the rest of its schedule. A bad ND football team is hard to muscle. A very good ND team - which this one is fast on its way to being - will be intolerable.

Like the presidential campaign T-shirts for sale on the Net, there should be one that shows ND's insignia. Underneath it should read:

"​

Coming in 2012."​

 

[Robertelamin]

Sorry, but that's utterly ridiculous. ND doesn't add to the basketball contract? By what set of criteria do you use?

National following/brand. Yes.
Games on national tv frequently? They had 15 games last year on national tv.
Winning/success. They are in the NCAAs practically every year, so there earning the NCAA Tourney credits.
Football side. Our #2nd place bowl game is a result of our tie in w ND. Do you really think we're in a position to be getting rid of any football chips we have now?

Aside from all of this, the catholic schools would never vote ND out, because in the unlikely case there is a split, they would want to be aligned with them. Why? Because of all the reasons listed above.

So if you want to list specific reasons why ND is "hurting" the conferences, I'd be all for a debate. Just I think you're going to have a hard time finding any.

Jesus stop licking ND's balls. No one cares about their basketball program.

 

[toppencil]

Everyone agrees that if Notre Dame decided to join the Big East for football it would save the conference. We could probably recruit a few schools from the ACC or even Penn State to join, who knows. However, it's obvious that, because of football's expense and potential revenues, football schools have to be selfish/greedy. The Big East will rebuild and then be torn apart again. In time, all the remaining six football programs will find new homes. I was thinking there may be better approach.

I suppose I am in the minority here but why not lead a serious push to implement a college D1 playoff system. The remaining six schools have generated luke warm interest from the powers that be. Why not partner with all the schools on the outside looking in and make some noise? Articles I have read indicate that a playoff system would generate significantly more revenues for all the schools. If the feared 4 super conferences (64 teams) get established it will probably be too late.

 

[nadav]

1 Sweet Sixteen in the last 25 years, 7,500 average home attendance. ND basketball is nothing without the Big East. Don't get it twisted.

 

[SAMCRO]

lol.

Hybrid model = instability.

 

[huskyrob1]

Hybrid model = instability.

This thread should not even exist on a UCONN board. I mean the Titanic is sinking and we're still talking about the best way to patch the hole in the hull. I'd like to see threads about how our various sports teams would do in the ACC or Big 10, our chances, and the best way to go about creating our chances. If I know Herbst, she is 1st in line at the lifeboats, even though Captain Marinatto just invited her up to his stateroom for antipast, veal saltimbocca, and spaghetti and meatballs.

 

[uconNYC]

This thread should not even exist on a UCONN board. I mean the Titanic is sinking and we're still talking about the best way to patch the hole in the hull. I'd like to see threads about how our various sports teams would do in the ACC or Big 10, our chances, and the best way to go about creating our chances.

It's obvious Herbst is doing everything she can to get us into a better league, but if things don't workout what's your alternative? For me one thing is clear, if we can't get into the ACC, B1G or Big12, we must stay in the Big East to protect our basketball and Olympic sports teams. The worst thing we could do is to break-away from GU, VU, SJU, ND, Marquette, to create an all sports conference with UCF, ECU, SMU, etc. Then both our football and basketball will be at the CUSA level.

 

[huskyrob1]

If things don't work out, I say kick the bball only schools in the balls and go independent until we get an invite. If we did that, the AD's phone would be ringing off the hook anyway for schools wanting to play us, so in that sense I think scheduling would be a minor issue at least for the major sports. I don't think recruiting would take much of a hit if at all. The big hit would come in revenue though, that would be tough but I think in the long run the pros outweigh the cons.

 

[SAMCRO]

This thread should not even exist on a UCONN board. I mean the Titanic is sinking and we're still talking about the best way to patch the hole in the hull. I'd like to see threads about how our various sports teams would do in the ACC or Big 10, our chances, and the best way to go about creating our chances. If I know Herbst, she is 1st in line at the lifeboats, even though Captain Marinatto just invited her up to his stateroom for antipast, veal saltimbocca, and spaghetti and meatballs.

Agreed. And now I want Italian for lunch.