Big 12 Overrated?

[mudcat]

I've watched quite a few Big 12 games this season and, TBH, I'm not very impressed by any of them. IA State I think is the best balanced team, but can easily be beaten on a day when the 3 doesn't drop or they have to cope with a good interior offense. OK also has problems: they shoot really well and run their offense well, but can really struggle in the face of good perimeter defense, especially if the other team has size inside. Baylor just hasn't been consistent this year, and on any day can lose to anyone else in the conference (and has). Kansas St doesn't have anyone beside Lee, and good defense can hold her down (see the TX games). TX just doesn't score enough to beat good teams. The rest of the conference: meh. I certainly don't think the conference deserves 4 teams in the top 16 for seedings. What do you think?

 

[cancontent]

Really? I think Baylor may be rounding into form actually. I get the consistent point as some of their losses are, ugh. At the same time, they beat Iowa State and Texas twice on a short turnaround.

 

[Plebe]

I mean, wouldn't it be just as easy to ask similar questions about almost any conference? Pretty much all teams this season are very beatable and have significant weaknesses and/or inconsistencies.

If you think the top teams in the Big 12 are overrated, who are the underrated teams that you feel should be ranked or seeded ahead of them?

In at least one sense the Big 12 teams are not overrated: None of them is in serious running for a 1 seed. I believe the highest that any Big 12 team has been ranked in either of the committee "reveals" is #7.

However, wherever you start ranking the top Big 12 teams, there really isn't much separation among those top 4 or 5 teams. I do agree Iowa State has been overall the most consistent. I also think Oklahoma deserves to be in the top 16 — and they should've been there in the first reveal instead of Kansas State. I wasn't sold on Baylor as a top 16 team either until just the past couple weeks.

Actually, the B12 team that is most perplexing to me is Texas. I definitely thought their #7 ranking in the first reveal was too high, and they dropped all the way to #15 in the second reveal. They've been very inconsistent. They have two excellent true road wins (at Stanford and at Iowa State) ... but they've also lost to Texas Tech and Kansas, and most recently looked very ineffectual in back-to-back games against Baylor. Given the trajectory of the committee's reveals, I'd say Texas is in serious danger of dropping out of the top 16.

 

[SECbbfan24]

Actually, the B12 team that is most perplexing to me is Texas. I definitely thought their #7 ranking in the first reveal was too high, and they dropped all the way to #15 in the second reveal. They've been very inconsistent. They have two excellent true road wins (at Stanford and at Iowa State) ... but they've also lost to Texas Tech and Kansas, and most recently looked very ineffectual in back-to-back games against Baylor. Given the trajectory of the committee's reveals, I'd say Texas is in serious danger of dropping out of the top 16.

Texas is the definition of a weird bipolar team. One minute they look top 15, the next they look like they dont look top 25, Tonight is something else.

 

[JellyBean]

I don't think the Big 12 is overrated. I agree with @Plebe, you can make the claim about any conference this year. Pretty much all teams this season are very beatable and have significant weaknesses and at times look unimpressive. Now I do question Texas being among the #16 teams, given their recent struggles.

 

[Basket]

I mean, wouldn't it be just as easy to ask similar questions about almost any conference? Pretty much all teams this season are very beatable and have significant weaknesses and/or inconsistencies.

If you think the top teams in the Big 12 are overrated, who are the underrated teams that you feel should be ranked or seeded ahead of them?

In at least one sense the Big 12 teams are not overrated: None of them is in serious running for a 1 seed. I believe the highest that any Big 12 team has been ranked in either of the committee "reveals" is #7.

However, wherever you start ranking the top Big 12 teams, there really isn't much separation among those top 4 or 5 teams. I do agree Iowa State has been overall the most consistent. I also think Oklahoma deserves to be in the top 16 — and they should've been there in the first reveal instead of Kansas State. I wasn't sold on Baylor as a top 16 team either until just the past couple weeks.

Actually, the B12 team that is most perplexing to me is Texas. I definitely thought their #7 ranking in the first reveal was too high, and they dropped all the way to #15 in the second reveal. They've been very inconsistent. They have two excellent true road wins (at Stanford and at Iowa State) ... but they've also lost to Texas Tech and Kansas, and most recently looked very ineffectual in back-to-back games against Baylor. Given the trajectory of the committee's reveals, I'd say Texas is in serious danger of dropping out of the top 16.

I think just about every teams ranking is too high this year. No one seems that good including Dawn’s SC team.

 

[southie]

I mean, wouldn't it be just as easy to ask similar questions about almost any conference? Pretty much all teams this season are very beatable and have significant weaknesses and/or inconsistencies.

If you think the top teams in the Big 12 are overrated, who are the underrated teams that you feel should be ranked or seeded ahead of them?

In at least one sense the Big 12 teams are not overrated: None of them is in serious running for a 1 seed. I believe the highest that any Big 12 team has been ranked in either of the committee "reveals" is #7.

However, wherever you start ranking the top Big 12 teams, there really isn't much separation among those top 4 or 5 teams. I do agree Iowa State has been overall the most consistent. I also think Oklahoma deserves to be in the top 16 — and they should've been there in the first reveal instead of Kansas State. I wasn't sold on Baylor as a top 16 team either until just the past couple weeks.

Actually, the B12 team that is most perplexing to me is Texas. I definitely thought their #7 ranking in the first reveal was too high, and they dropped all the way to #15 in the second reveal. They've been very inconsistent. They have two excellent true road wins (at Stanford and at Iowa State) ... but they've also lost to Texas Tech and Kansas, and most recently looked very ineffectual in back-to-back games against Baylor. Given the trajectory of the committee's reveals, I'd say Texas is in serious danger of dropping out of the top 16.

I agree with your first 3 paragraphs wholeheartedly.

But, I do disagree with some of your thoughts after that.

Iowa State has the best winning percentage overall; and, leads the Big 12 standings with only 2 losses. But, those 2 losses were by 18 points to Texas, and by 26 points to Baylor. So, not sure I'd call them the most consistent team when they were blown out twice. Their best non-conference win is against Iowa. When I look at ISU's wins, I just don't know how the reveal had them at #7 (perhaps I'm missing something, but how can you be #7 when you don't have any Top 10 wins, other than against #9 OU?):

2021-22 Iowa State Women's Basketball - Schedule - Big 12 Conference

The official 2021-22 Women's Basketball schedule for Big 12 Conference

big12sports.com

Texas has been inconsistent for sure. The reason for dropping from #7 to #15 is pretty simple -- consecutive losses to OU, Baylor, and Baylor (all Top 10, btw). The home loss to Tech early in the conference season is the worst loss, and getting worse as Tech is on a 6 game losing streak. But, Texas gains a Top 10 win tonight by manhandling OU 76-59. Iowa State comes to Texas on Wednesday night; so, Texas has a chance to make up for that 3-game losing streak against Top 10 teams by beating two Top 10 teams in a row. The home loss to Kansas looked bad at the time; but, Kansas is currently 17-5 on the season, and projected to make the NCAA tournament. So, I guess Texas could be in danger of dropping out of the Top 16 if they play like they did one week ago; but, not if we follow up tonight's win over OU with a win over Iowa State.

 

[jchusky]

when I think of overrated conferences I think are the teams being hyped because of wins or because of how they do vs other conferences.
Here are some key wins this season for this conference:
Iowa st demolishes Iowa, Texas upsets Stanford, Baylor "the one with the hc that can't coach" 2 huge wins vs Texas, losing OT AT Michigan and losing a nail bitter at Maryland. Oklahoma imo the hc of the Ncaa season, 20-4 beats the big mouth Byu hc who says he can beat anyone. Just because teams beat each other does not mean they are overrated as a conference.

 

[cancontent]

I agree with your first 3 paragraphs wholeheartedly.

But, I do disagree with some of your thoughts after that.

Iowa State has the best winning percentage overall; and, leads the Big 12 standings with only 2 losses. But, those 2 losses were by 18 points to Texas, and by 26 points to Baylor. So, not sure I'd call them the most consistent team when they were blown out twice. Their best non-conference win is against Iowa. When I look at ISU's wins, I just don't know how the reveal had them at #7 (perhaps I'm missing something, but how can you be #7 when you don't have any Top 10 wins, other than against #9 OU?):

2021-22 Iowa State Women's Basketball - Schedule - Big 12 Conference

The official 2021-22 Women's Basketball schedule for Big 12 Conference

big12sports.com

Texas has been inconsistent for sure. The reason for dropping from #7 to #15 is pretty simple -- consecutive losses to OU, Baylor, and Baylor (all Top 10, btw). The home loss to Tech early in the conference season is the worst loss, and getting worse as Tech is on a 6 game losing streak. But, Texas gains a Top 10 win tonight by manhandling OU 76-59. Iowa State comes to Texas on Wednesday night; so, Texas has a chance to make up for that 3-game losing streak against Top 10 teams by beating two Top 10 teams in a row. The home loss to Kansas looked bad at the time; but, Kansas is currently 17-5 on the season, and projected to make the NCAA tournament. So, I guess Texas could be in danger of dropping out of the Top 16 if they play like they did one week ago; but, not if we follow up tonight's win over OU with a win over Iowa State.

Great points. I think the pressure is on Iowa State this Wednesday. If they lose to Texas twice, what does this say about their ability to go deep in the tournament?

Having both Joens sisters back will help. The front court game will be what I'm focused on. ISU struggled with that last time I recall.

 

[undersized]

Iowa st demolishes Iowa

Since when does a 7 point loss on the road count as "getting demolished"?

 

[Plebe]

Iowa State has the best winning percentage overall; and, leads the Big 12 standings with only 2 losses. But, those 2 losses were by 18 points to Texas, and by 26 points to Baylor. So, not sure I'd call them the most consistent team when they were blown out twice.

Okay, so who has been MORE consistent, then? Maybe I should have said "least inconsistent" rather than "most consistent". This is a comparison game. As I said at the top of my post, all teams have displayed weaknesses and inconsistencies. Iowa State is one of those teams. But the rest of the Big 12 has been even more inconsistent IMO.

When I look at ISU's wins, I just don't know how the reveal had them at #7 (perhaps I'm missing something, but how can you be #7 when you don't have any Top 10 wins, other than against #9 OU?):

LOL funny way of wording this.

For the record I thought #7 was a bit too high for ISU; I'd actually predicted Baylor to be #8 and ISU at #9. But you could ask similar questions of many teams. How was Tennessee #4 in the first reveal when their only top 10 win was over the notoriously inconsistent Texas (in one of the worst 4th quarter collapses I've ever seen). Michigan was #5 in the latest reveal and they "don't have any Top 10 wins other than against #8 Indiana". And on that note, Indiana is at #8 despite having no wins over the top 16.

So who exactly are the teams ranked behind Iowa State who clearly have better resumes? If you're gonna say they're over-ranked, who are the corresponding under-ranked teams?

 

[jchusky]

Since when does a 7 point loss on the road count as "getting demolished"?

lol I saw that game there was never a doubt who was winning.

 

[undersized]

lol I saw that game there was never a doubt who was winning.

It was a two point game after the 3Q but OK.

 

[LoTrader]

When the NCAA Tournament comes around, we'll see which conference(s) is/are overrated.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Really late to this thread, but I'm going to humbly submit the B1G Ten is the most overrated. When I did a deep dive on every top team's good wins/bad losses it made me realize that it has a bunch of solid squads but no actually really good teams. I'm actually pretty impressed by the Big 12 this season - it's no longer Baylor and the 9 dwarves. Texas, Iowa St., Kansas St., and Oklahoma have all had flashes of brilliance, and even lowly Kansas is looking decent.

ETA: Also, Massey and NET both agree with me.

 

[Basket]

Really late to this thread, but I'm going to humbly submit the B1G Ten is the most overrated. When I did a deep dive on every top team's good wins/bad losses it made me realize that it has a bunch of solid squads but no actually really good teams. I'm actually pretty impressed by the Big 12 this season - it's no longer Baylor and the 9 dwarves. Texas, Iowa St., Kansas St., and Oklahoma have all had flashes of brilliance, and even lowly Kansas is looking decent.

ETA: Also, Massey and NET both agree with me.

Holmes going down for Indiana turned that team from a very good team to a pretender

 

[cancontent]

Really late to this thread, but I'm going to humbly submit the B1G Ten is the most overrated. When I did a deep dive on every top team's good wins/bad losses it made me realize that it has a bunch of solid squads but no actually really good teams. I'm actually pretty impressed by the Big 12 this season - it's no longer Baylor and the 9 dwarves. Texas, Iowa St., Kansas St., and Oklahoma have all had flashes of brilliance, and even lowly Kansas is looking decent.

ETA: Also, Massey and NET both agree with me.

Totally fair, however several of these teams you're referring to have also had their challenges with injuries that have affected their depth. Every team goes through it, but it seems like these programs have been snake bitten a bit more than usual.

Michigan - Lost Dilk initially. Since then, she hasn't been the same player (at least to me). Now they're without Brown and it's unclear when she's returning.

Maryland - Masonius out for the season, Miller on the sidelines for several weeks at the start of the season, and now Owusu out and it's also unclear when she's returning.

Iowa - Lost Goodman before the season started. That was some post/forward depth they could really use right now. A couple other starters have also been out recently which hasn't helped them.

Indiana - Lost Holmes, but holding on, even with the recent lost against Nebraska.


The BIG12 has definitely been impressive. The conference tournament will be very interesting as I think it's going to be very competitive amongst Texas, Baylor, Iowa State and Oklahoma.

 

[cancontent]

Totally fair. I think similar things could be said about Oregon, OSU, and UCLA, for example, but I also think everyone (including me) lowered our expectations for the PAC-12 conference when those developments happened pretty early on in the fall. I guess my point is only that since injuries are endogenous to the game, we also have to readjust our views of teams and conferences accordingly. At this point, whatever the reason, I think the B1G Ten is not as good as I would have thought based on their rankings and general accolades, and I think the Big 12 is better than it's getting credit for.

I think they're getting their fair share of credit this year, but I get your perspective. And with teams like Kansas and Oklahoma improving significantly this season, the future of the conference is very promising.

 

[visitingcock]

Well, here's how the Conferences stack up as per NET.

• Conference NET
• 1. SEC
• 2. Big 12
• 3. Pac-12
• 4. ACC
• 5. Big Ten
• 6. American Athletic
• 7. Big East
• 8. West Coast
• 9. Atlantic 10
• 10. Missouri Valley

Now, I don't agree about "best" ranking, but the Big 12 and Big Ten are the most fun this year because anybody can win? Not sure how good the SEC and PAC are because South Carolina and Stanford.

PAC, SEC and ACC are just kinda' boring except for the next NC State vs. Louisville game.

 

[mudcat]

Really late to this thread, but I'm going to humbly submit the B1G Ten is the most overrated. When I did a deep dive on every top team's good wins/bad losses it made me realize that it has a bunch of solid squads but no actually really good teams. I'm actually pretty impressed by the Big 12 this season - it's no longer Baylor and the 9 dwarves. Texas, Iowa St., Kansas St., and Oklahoma have all had flashes of brilliance, and even lowly Kansas is looking decent.

ETA: Also, Massey and NET both agree with me.

My feeling after watching some games is that the Big 12 has only marginally improved: what's making it more competitive this year is that Baylor has also regressed. Of the power conferences I think they are the most likely to have 0 or only 1 team in the sweet sixteen. But we won't know till the tournament.

 

[southie]

I think they're getting their fair share of credit this year, but I get your perspective. And with teams like Kansas and Oklahoma improving significantly this season, the future of the conference is very promising.

Until Oklahoma and Texas depart for the SEC (in 2023 or 2024).

TCU and Oklahoma State are on the downslide the last couple of seasons.

Texas Tech just can't get it together no matter how many transfers join; plus, they lose the best player (Vivian Gray) they've had in the last decade after this season.

Not sure how strong BYU, Cincinnati, Central Florida, and Houston will be when they join the Big 12 in a couple of years; but, only BYU has been a consistent NCAA tournament team.

 

[cancontent]

Until Oklahoma and Texas depart for the SEC (in 2023 or 2024).

TCU and Oklahoma State are on the downslide the last couple of seasons.

Texas Tech just can't get it together no matter how many transfers join; plus, they lose the best player (Vivian Gray) they've had in the last decade after this season.

Not sure how strong BYU, Cincinnati, Central Florida, and Houston will be when they join the Big 12 in a couple of years; but, only BYU has been a consistent NCAA tournament team.

Cripes. I forgot about that. So maybe another year or two at the most......drat.

I need more coffee. Two cups obviously isn't enough for me today.

 

[southie]

#14 Texas clobbers #6 Iowa State in Austin 73-48 to sweep the Cyclones.

That makes 3 conference losses on the season where ISU lost by 18, 25, and 25 points. I stand by what I stated the other day; ISU is not the most consistent team in the Big 12.

 

[visitingcock]

And Oklahoma falls to Texas Tech

 

[Plebe]

#14 Texas clobbers #6 Iowa State in Austin 73-48 to sweep the Cyclones.

That makes 3 conference losses on the season where ISU lost by 18, 25, and 25 points. I stand by what I stated the other day; ISU is not the most consistent team in the Big 12.

And I stand by my question: Who's been more consistent?

Maybe TCU?