Baylor vs Okie Lite

[easttexastrash]

That was possibly the most complete game Baylor has played this season. A total 42 point butt whoopin’ on OSU’s home court, 87-45. I think they’re ready for UT.

 

[Plebe]

That was possibly the most complete game Baylor has played this season. A total 42 point butt whoopin’ on OSU’s home court, 87-45. I think they’re ready for UT.

Don't get too excited. Iowa State also won on that same court.

 

[DefenseBB]

That was possibly the most complete game Baylor has played this season. A total 42 point butt whoopin’ on OSU’s home court, 87-45. I think they’re ready for UT.

Let me throw some luv ETTs way here-yes, I too thought Baylor played an Outstanding game last night and kudos to that domination. It is impressive no matter how you slice it.
They are a very strong team and worthy of a #1 seed. That said, they also lack consistency as from game to game Brown disappears due to foul trouble and games that should be routs from the opening tip linger as competitive.
Plus, I need crunch time, I am not convinced Kim can “x & o” her way to a victory. After all her regular season success, high rankings and top recruits, she only has 3 Final Fours on her resume...to me, she’s under achieved. I am not overly concerned as a UConn fan.

I am rooting for them to make a FF and have Kim earn some Kudos. But until then, I will be a “seller” and watch with mild amusement on her stubbornness to schedule her way and all the cupcakes early on...and then bemoan a lack of national respect.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Let me throw some luv ETTs way here-yes, I too thought Baylor played an Outstanding game last night and kudos to that domination. It is impressive no matter how you slice it.
They are a very strong team and worthy of a #1 seed. That said, they also lack consistency as from game to game Brown disappears due to foul trouble and games that should be routs from the opening tip linger as competitive.
Plus, I need crunch time, I am not convinced Kim can “x & o” her way to a victory. After all her regular season success, high rankings and top recruits, she only has 3 Final Fours on her resume...to me, she’s under achieved. I am not overly concerned as a UConn fan.

I am rooting for them to make a FF and have Kim earn some Kudos. But until then, I will be a “seller” and watch with mild amusement on her stubbornness to schedule her way and all the cupcakes early on...and then bemoan a lack of national respect.

I get the underachieved argument, but unless I am winning a Championship then it doesn't matter. If you're not first your last. She has more Championships than a lot of other coaches who have coaching a lot long. She knew her x's and 0's enough to take a first championship as a 2 seed beating several no.1 seeds along the way. Also, might not want to ask for the FF because she's 2-3 when she makes the FF. Yes I would love to make FF's but at the end of the day all that matters is that Championship.

How many FF's have other coaches made yet only have one championship? Would you rather have made it several times and come up with nothing or go 3 times and win two outta 3?

 

[DefenseBB]

So with the bevy of talent she has accumulated over the past 7 years, you’re ok with 1 Final Four? That makes no sense. She’s underachieved no matter how you slice it.

Muffet and Tara have done far more with far less than Kim. So yes, she has 2 NC’s which is outstanding, but to only make the elite eight these last 6 years? Not good. This isn’t the Men’s game with talent evenly dispersed. My contention is she underachieves because she doesn’t test her team with quality OOC opponents. There are like 2 teams annually in the Big12 that are nationally consistent so I don’t buy the “our conference is really hard argument she puts up”.

So, I guess there will be no complaints when Baylor is handed a #2 seed in Miss St bracket due to their lame SOS? Suuurrrree and I have a bridge I want to sell....

 

[oldude]

Baylor is something of an enigma to me. At times, like last night, they look unbeatable. The Bears play a less than challenging OOC schedule and after Baylor & TX, the Big 12 is either the 4th or 5th best conference in the nation. As DBB and others point out, Kim's teams often underachieve in big games, particularly trying to close them out, which they were not able to do in several Elite 8 games over the past few seasons.

IMO, Baylor has great talent, with the ability to win more championships, but they would be better served by Kim scheduling a much tougher OOC schedule. So teams out of tougher conferences like MS St, or OR St two years ago are used to tight battles in close games. Teams like UConn, Stanford, ND and others who always have a goal of a national championship, perennially set up a brutal OOC schedule that serves them well in March. When Geno was asked on Monday about scheduling a Top5 OOC game like Louisville in February he responded, "It's all about March." So who cares if Baylor suffers another loss or two during the regular season, if they come in better prepared for the big games to come during the Big Dance.

 

[Oldbones]

That was possibly the most complete game Baylor has played this season. A total 42 point butt whoopin’ on OSU’s home court, 87-45. I think they’re ready for UT.

I like to remember that Brittney Griner, Skylar Diggins and Kelly Faris played during the same 4 years and Kelly had two NCs, Brittney 1, and Skylar none, while most folks would agree that (with exception of a not-as-strong Baylor in 2010) the talent was pretty much equal.

 

[easttexastrash]

So with the bevy of talent she has accumulated over the past 7 years, you’re ok with 1 Final Four? That makes no sense. She’s underachieved no matter how you slice it.

Muffet and Tara have done far more with far less than Kim. So yes, she has 2 NC’s which is outstanding, but to only make the elite eight these last 6 years? Not good. This isn’t the Men’s game with talent evenly dispersed. My contention is she underachieves because she doesn’t test her team with quality OOC opponents. There are like 2 teams annually in the Big12 that are nationally consistent so I don’t buy the “our conference is really hard argument she puts up”.

So, I guess there will be no complaints when Baylor is handed a #2 seed in Miss St bracket due to their lame SOS? Suuurrrree and I have a bridge I want to sell....

The great Muffett, who has also had her share of talent, has only one one championship. And who remembers the last time that Tara won a championship? Actually, it was 1992. Neither have won a championship in the past 15 years, so once they take some more hardware home they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Mulkey.

Like my friend DallasBUFan said, you're either first or you're last. Doesn't really matter if you lose in the S16, E8 or FF, a loser is a loser.

 

[JordyG]

So with the bevy of talent she has accumulated over the past 7 years, you’re ok with 1 Final Four? That makes no sense. She’s underachieved no matter how you slice it.

Muffet and Tara have done far more with far less than Kim. So yes, she has 2 NC’s which is outstanding, but to only make the elite eight these last 6 years? Not good. This isn’t the Men’s game with talent evenly dispersed. My contention is she underachieves because she doesn’t test her team with quality OOC opponents. There are like 2 teams annually in the Big12 that are nationally consistent so I don’t buy the “our conference is really hard argument she puts up”.

So, I guess there will be no complaints when Baylor is handed a #2 seed in Miss St bracket due to their lame SOS? Suuurrrree and I have a bridge I want to sell....

Which has also been my issue with Mulkey's teams. More, she rarely plays games outside of the state of Texas, and almost never goes on long road trips. All of this leaves them unprepared for Dancin' at the Big Boogie. Every year.

 

[JordyG]

The great Muffett, who has also had her share of talent, has only one one championship. And who remembers the last time that Tara won a championship? Actually, it was 1992. Neither have won a championship in the past 15 years, so once they take some more hardware home they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Mulkey.

Like my friend DallasBUFan said, you're either first or you're last. Doesn't really matter if you lose in the S16, E8 or FF, a loser is a loser.

And on the other hand, you ain't wrong especially about Muffet. For all we UConn fans see her as our rival, frankly the rest of the country sees Vic's team, or even Dawn's team as more of a rival than Muffet. But, and this is a big but, neither coach has ever had a transcendental talent on the level of Griner. Not close. I think the question whether either Tara or Muffet would have won more than one championship with her are more than valid.

 

[Plebe]

I don't quite sing along with the refrain of an "underachieving" Mulkey. Her championship team in 2005 was the quintessential overachiever. Just one year earlier, her scrappy squad very nearly toppled a far more talented and powerful Lady Vols squad in the Sweet 16, a game infamously decided on a loose-ball foul called with 0.2 seconds on the clock.

In Griner's freshman year as well, Baylor really overachieved in the tournament by reaching the Final Four.

Sure, she's had some years where her team didn't quite live up to seeding. But another sign that she's a better coach than some give her credit for is that even after she has graduated superstars, her teams in her "rebuilding" years have often done better than projected. The two years after Griner graduated, her team probably overachieved just slightly. I would also say that after she graduated a strong senior class last year, many people didn't think her team would be as dominant as they've proven to be.

If Mulkey's resume is an underachieving one, then 99.9% of coaches should be so fortunate as to underachieve as she has.

 

[DallasBUFan]

I don't quite sing along with the refrain of an "underachieving" Mulkey. Her championship team in 2005 was the quintessential overachiever. Just one year earlier, her scrappy squad very nearly toppled a far more talented and powerful Lady Vols squad in the Sweet 16, a game infamously decided on a loose-ball foul called with 0.2 seconds on the clock.

In Griner's freshman year as well, Baylor really overachieved in the tournament by reaching the Final Four.

Sure, she's had some years where her team didn't quite live up to seeding. But another sign that she's a better coach than some give her credit for is that even after she has graduated superstars, her teams in her "rebuilding" years have often done better than projected. The two years after Griner graduated, her team probably overachieved just slightly. I would also say that after she graduated a strong senior class last year, many people didn't think her team would be as dominant as they've proven to be.

If Mulkey's resume is an underachieving one, then 99.9% of coaches should be so fortunate as to underachieve as she has.

I mean we had some Texas fans trolling the BU fans this year talking about how they will run the table this year and we don't have a chance. I would love to go to the FF more however, just like we have been stuck at the elite eight how many NC games has Muffett lost? Yes she got there but she can't capitalize. Like I stated before unless you win the Natty you are still a loser. BU after the lost of seniors and transfers and injuries is still a top team. Like stated above in the rebuilding years we still were finishing in the top 8 in the nation.

She is the current 2nd place in win percentage of current active coaches behind well we all know who. She is in her 18th season at BU and still has not even lost a 100 games. Yes in the past she has been out coached, but what coach hasn't been before? Coaching is like anything else in life, you have to get better. I mean in 17 seasons she has won 8 reg (7 in a row) Big 12 titles 8 Big 12 tourney titles, like 7 elite eights, 3 Final Fours and 2 National Championships. Other than Geno who else has won more than 1 National title every few years?

Also, a fair share of her "Stars" have been underrated recruits.

Top Programs (IMO)
Going off memory, so if I am wrong sorry
NC's
Muffet- 1
Tara - 1
Brenda - 1
Dawn- 1
Geno- A lot
Kim - 2

All in all would I like to have been in FF more? Yes, however if we would have gone to last 3-4 in a row and lost I would feel the same way I feel about losing in elite eight.

 

[Bear11]

Massey now projects Baylor to finish with the 7th most difficult schedule, better than Oregon, Tennessee, Louisville, South Carolina, and Mississippi State. Can we ditch the "Baylor doesn't play anyone" schtick?

 

[DefenseBB]

Top Programs (IMO)
Going off memory, so if I am wrong sorry
NC's
Muffet- 1
Tara - 1
Brenda - 1
Dawn- 1
Geno- A lot
Kim - 2

All in all would I like to have been in FF more? Yes, however if we would have gone to last 3-4 in a row and lost I would feel the same way I feel about losing in elite eight.

Close- Tara has 2 Titles and Geno has 11.

There is a difference between Sweet 16/Elite 8 and Final Four. As much as the highest seeded teams are placed to the closest regional to their home base, there is usually an advantage like Dallas is supposed to be for Kim.

Again, I like Kim and want to see Baylor make it this year but YES, I am absolutely saying Kim has underachieved with the most recent 6+years of talent infusion. She's been top 5 for recruiting for awhile now.

All snarkyness aside, The state of WCBB has been dominated by two programs for the last 30+ years-UConn with 11 titles and Tennessee with 8 (5 since 1995). So those two teams have knocked out many a strong coach in the Final Four. So 7 of Tara's 12 trips were losses to Tenn or UConn.
In Muffet's 7 trips, 4 of those losses were to UConn or Tenn. 3 of the 4 losses were in the finals.

Now, Tennessee has been absent for 9 years and the FF void has been filled by ND and Stanford making 5 FF each since 2008. Baylor has made 2 which is the same as Oklahoma, Louisville, Maryland and South Carolina. UConn has won 6 of the 9 (soon to be 7 of 10?).

I am not saying Kim is a bad coach, she is elite and well ahead of Karen Aston. In my opinion she's 4th in the current coaching ranks. She is a Hall of Famer so she is very good, I just think she has under-achieved as she has had more talent the last 9 years than anyone but Geno.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Massey now projects Baylor to finish with the 7th most difficult schedule, better than Oregon, Tennessee, Louisville, South Carolina, and Mississippi State. Can we ditch the "Baylor doesn't play anyone" schtick?

Does Baylor ever go on road trips?

 

[Bear11]

Does Baylor ever go on road trips?

Obviously not often enough for you, but that is factored into Massey's ranking. I'm not here to debate scheduling decisions, I would be fine if we played another tough game or two. I'm just pointing out that the schedule we are playing is not the parade of cupcakes many seem to think.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Obviously not often enough for you, but that is factored into Massey's ranking. I'm not here to debate scheduling decisions, I would be fine if we played another tough game or two. I'm just pointing out that the schedule we are playing is not the parade of cupcakes many seem to think.

UConn just played back to back home games for the first time in 3 months. And UConn won't play back to back games in Storrs at all this season. I'm waiting for Baylor to do something equally as challenging with their schedule other than staying in Waco and hiding from UConn.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

UConn just played back to back home games for the first time in 3 months. And UConn won't play back to back games in Storrs at all this season. I'm waiting for Baylor to do something equally as challenging with their schedule other than staying in Waco and hiding from UConn.

Was reading the Baylor board the other day. Apparently, Baylor plays an incredibly difficult schedule that UConn can only dream of, and Mulkey would be putting up Geno results if the schedules were reversed. See, UConn's tough non-conference opponents are all spread out over several weeks so UConn has time to prepare and be fresh! Whereas Baylor is playing five tough opponents a week or something.

 

[j66kicker]

Obviously not often enough for you, but that is factored into Massey's ranking. I'm not here to debate scheduling decisions, I would be fine if we played another tough game or two. I'm just pointing out that the schedule we are playing is not the parade of cupcakes many seem to think.

No disrespect, and I actually think Baylor is a top 3 team, but how can Kim schedule these teams - on purpose - and they not be called a parade of cupcakes??

Lamar
Coppin State
Central Arkansas
Missouri State
North Dakota
McNeese
Nicholls

 

[oldude]

Was reading the Baylor board the other day. Apparently, Baylor plays an incredibly difficult schedule that UConn can only dream of, and Mulkey would be putting up Geno results if the schedules were reversed. See, UConn's tough non-conference opponents are all spread out over several weeks so UConn has time to prepare and be fresh! Whereas Baylor is playing five tough opponents a week or something.

Unless a team is playing in the SEC, ACC or PAC12, conference schedules are relatively insignificant. At present, UConn has played 8 currently ranked teams, 5 of which were on the road. Baylor has played 4 currently ranked teams, 2 of which were on the road. Each team has 1 more game against a ranked team during the regular season, and possibly another in the conference tournament.

 

[Bear11]

Unless a team is playing in the SEC, ACC or PAC12, conference schedules are relatively insignificant. At present, UConn has played 8 currently ranked teams, 5 of which were on the road. Baylor has played 4 currently ranked teams, 2 of which were on the road. Each team has 1 more game against a ranked team during the regular season, and possibly another in the conference tournament.

Did you mean to leave out the Big 12, which is the top rated conference in Massey and 2nd in Sagarin? That's also more meaningful because the Big 12 plays a full double round-robin, unlike some of the larger conferences. I found it interesting that none of the top 4 ACC teams had to make a return trip to any of the other 3, with Louisville getting Notre Dame, Florida State, and Duke at home. The differences in how conferences make their schedules can make comparisons between conferences difficult.

 

[Plebe]

The Big 12 has taken a hammering in the RPI this year. Texas Tech is just plain awful (#230 in RPI) and is dragging down everyone else's RPI because everyone has to play them twice in the regular season alone. Kansas is also a weak team, RPI #165.

Oklahoma State (#44), West Virginia (#51) and TCU (#59) are all underrated in the RPI because their nonconference SOSs were (by RPI calculation methods) dreadfully weak, ranked #155, 158, and 207, respectively.

 

[Phil]

Why the steady drumbeat about how bad the strength of schedule is for Baylor?

There strength of schedule is ranked 10th in the country. That means only nine teams are better. Mississippi State is one of those teams that doesn't have a better strength of schedule yet the next time I see someone whining about Mississippi State strength the schedule will be the first.

Baylor still has a top 10 team left on it schedule not yet included in the strength of schedule. Mississippi State's best remaining opponent is Texas A&M ranked 22.

 

[Bear11]

The Big 12 has taken a hammering in the RPI this year. Texas Tech is just plain awful (#230 in RPI) and is dragging down everyone else's RPI because everyone has to play them twice in the regular season alone. Kansas is also a weak team, RPI #165.

Oklahoma State (#44), West Virginia (#51) and TCU (#59) are all underrated in the RPI because their nonconference SOSs were (by RPI calculation methods) dreadfully weak, ranked #155, 158, and 207, respectively.

I yearn for the day that the RPI is ended and forgotten.

 

[oldude]

Did you mean to leave out the Big 12, which is the top rated conference in Massey and 2nd in Sagarin? That's also more meaningful because the Big 12 plays a full double round-robin, unlike some of the larger conferences. I found it interesting that none of the top 4 ACC teams had to make a return trip to any of the other 3, with Louisville getting Notre Dame, Florida State, and Duke at home. The differences in how conferences make their schedules can make comparisons between conferences difficult.

I know you’re not going to agree with me, but after Baylor & TX, the Big12 is not a very strong conference. The SEC, ACC & PAC12 will all send more teams to the NCAA tournament than the Big12, which may not even surpass the number of teams from the BIG.