Attacking a zone defense | The Boneyard

Attacking a zone defense

QDOG5

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My first post so early apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam. Since we are expecting a steady diet of zone D I thought we could talk a little x's and o's. IMO attacking the middle of the zone is key. The free throw line player must be a threat offensively. How many times last season did our guy catch the ball and pass it right back out to the guard who threw it in. Without ever facing the basket! Free throw line player should always look for his shot first. I'm also a fan of screening the defenders up top in a zone. I believe it's the best to start dribble penetration. If I watch 30 seconds of perimeter passing each possession this year I'll be disappointed.
 
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2-3 zone offense is about fundamentals. And honestly, all the Xs and Os in the world arent going to change that unless you can shoot it at a decent clip.

Move the ball, find the middle. Two bigs should be alternating finding the middle and retreating to the low shoulder.

Basically every team lines up in a 1-2-2 against a zone, with each of the bottom two alternating coming to the middle (ie. A 1-3-1)

When you find the middle. A 15 foot shot, as well as designating a cutter are pretty standard in basketball circles.

Another normal play for guard oriented teams is to find the middle, then having a big screen for a wing at the top.

Really any way to make drives tothe basket 1 on 1.

And shoot. Dear god, shoot. You wont even win ifc you cant shoot.
 
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Larrier is a perfect free throw line guy. He's tall and long enough to not be bothered by a lot of arms near him and find the open man or hit the mid-range jumper. He just has to execute.

Adams, Gilbert, and Vital have to hit 35%+ from 3 in zone situations. There's basically no excuse this day and age for your guards to not be able to do that, let alone 40%+.

We need Diarra and Cobb and co. to be very active on the weak side boards, as well.
 
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Make shots to open it up then penetrate and kick a lot. At some point the baseline opens too from the FT line which Larrier and maybe Polley can roam. But every zone looks great when the other team can't shoot so #1 is make shots. Only way the gaps open for Jalen and Rique.
 
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I may go back later and re-watch UConn/Syracuse back in 2013. I distinctly remember it being one of KO's best coaching performances with his halftime adjustments to beat the 2-3 zone and #6 Cuse as their Big East parting gift. There was a play they kept running where Giffey would set a pick at the top of the zone and Shabazz would use it and get some ball movement going until someone found an open shot. I just found 1 example at 10:00 in the 2nd half. I would like to see some creativity like this to beat the zone this year since they will see it early and often

 

UConnSwag11

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Gilbert will be the best one to attack the zone and then either hit a floater or driver and kick. We need to hit our threes
 

Wordbomar

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They ran something very similar is AAC tournament against Houston where they had a big set a screen for JA at the top and allow him to penetrate with Vance and CV in the corners looking for kick out
 

zepfan

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My first post so early apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam. Since we are expecting a steady diet of zone D I thought we could talk a little x's and o's. IMO attacking the middle of the zone is key. The free throw line player must be a threat offensively. How many times last season did our guy catch the ball and pass it right back out to the guard who threw it in. Without ever facing the basket! Free throw line player should always look for his shot first. I'm also a fan of screening the defenders up top in a zone. I believe it's the best to start dribble penetration. If I watch 30 seconds of perimeter passing each possession this year I'll be disappointed.

I have always been a big believer in the importance of getting the ball to the high post against a zone. I agree with your thoughts on the matter. Larrier should be a perfect person to attack the zone from that position. His ability to shoot the mid-range shot and get to the basket from there should allow him to be very effective. But I would also add that he has to be a good passer from that spot. Ideally he should mix it up from there. Also, passing to the opposite side or his blind side wing is critical. He needs to catch the pass from the point and turn to his blindside wing and make that pass. High post to the low post is essential also. Fully agree that if the ball is only moving around the perimeter that we are in trouble. Ultimately, as others have said, you have to hit outside shots or you will be in trouble.
 
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I may go back later and re-watch UConn/Syracuse back in 2013. I distinctly remember it being one of KO's best coaching performances with his halftime adjustments to beat the 2-3 zone and #6 Cuse as their Big East parting gift. There was a play they kept running where Giffey would set a pick at the top of the zone and Shabazz would use it and get some ball movement going until someone found an open shot. I just found 1 example at 10:00 in the 2nd half. I would like to see some creativity like this to beat the zone this year since they will see it early and often



This worked because they had 4 credible shooters on the floor.

An Adams, Gilbert, Vital, Larrier, random big lineup could replicate that this year.
 
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This worked because they had 4 credible shooters on the floor.

An Adams, Gilbert, Vital, Larrier, random big lineup could replicate that this year.
Given the limited stats and his poor shooting as a Freshman at VCU, does anyone know Larrier’s reputation as a 3 point shooter? Haven’t seen enough of him to gauge.
 
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I don't believe anyone has mentioned motion.

Attack the middle, yes. Shooters help, of course. If you aren't a great shooting team, you need to penetrate, if you can't do that you need motion AND ball movement. Three guards who aren't good shooters standing outside swinging the ball back and forth is not going to lead to good shots . Constant movement with quick passes on offense will create openings for layups and short jumpers.
 
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I don't believe anyone has mentioned motion.

Attack the middle, yes. Shooters help, of course. If you aren't a great shooting team, you need to penetrate, if you can't do that you need motion AND ball movement. Three guards who aren't good shooters standing outside swinging the ball back and forth is not going to lead to good shots . Constant movement with quick passes on offense will create openings for layups and short jumpers.

I would use a word other than motion.. motion in basketball terms is motion offense, which is often not very helpful against a zone. Doesnt always matter how MUCH you move, because defenders dont follow youm
 

pj

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I would use a word other than motion.. motion in basketball terms is motion offense, which is often not very helpful against a zone. Doesnt always matter how MUCH you move, because defenders dont follow youm

The general principles apply: spread the floor to create more openings, off the ball movement to create passing lanes and/or switches and mismatches, ball movement (or movement of the ballhandler via dribble) to create scoring and passing threats, with a rapid progression of rearrangements to break down the defense and ultimately generate an open shot.

What is different in zone vs man is the type of movements you need. You still need movement: if you don't move, a defender will stay in front of the ball and other defenders will block the passing lanes.
 
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Would be intriguing to put Jalen at the foul line if Alterique is in the game running point. Not only does the man in the middle of the zone have to be a threat but they must also be able to facilitate.
 
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I would use a word other than motion.. motion in basketball terms is motion offense, which is often not very helpful against a zone. Doesnt always matter how MUCH you move, because defenders dont follow youm
Call it what you want. Defenders follow the ball, which creates space, the offensive players need to move into the open space and look for the ball back. Pass and cut, pass and move, call it whatever you want, the ball needs to move and the players need to move, otherwise you become very easy to defend.
 
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Call it what you want. Defenders follow the ball, which creates space, the offensive players need to move into the open space and look for the ball back. Pass and cut, pass and move, call it whatever you want, the ball needs to move and the players need to move, otherwise you become very easy to defend.

I just generally dont call it a motion. Were talking semantics, but really describing the same play style. Glad to see we have some good bball minds on the yard!
 

Chin Diesel

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Vital is the best option on this team.
He doesn't panic when pressure comes to him, he can catch and pass to the open corner for a three, has enough strength to catch, square up and shoot the foul line J and has the ability to catch, make one dribble to the hoop and get to the rim or make the drop off pass from the corner player crashing the basket.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Someone flashing to the ball side short corner is as important as the high post against the zone. The corner 3 is generally not there unless the ball reversal is really crisp or the pass comes from the inside.

Most teams, including UConn, have a 4 out basic offensive set that is designed to create dribble drive opportunities for your strongest player or against their weakest defender. Those don't work against a zone. The basic formation for a 4-out actually puts each offensive player directly on a defender, making the defensive rotations a lot easier. Even if the passing is really crisp, the corner 3 will usually be a little rushed, making it a lower percentage shot, and the high post is usually pretty well defended.

The holes in a zone are at 45 degrees from the hoop either direction, and hose holes can be pretty big on ball reversals. I like 1-3-1 sets against a zone (like Geno does). Your guards end up being at 45 degree angles to the hoop, and the baseline forward can pin down the two block defenders, causing trouble for the defense without even touching the ball. This opens up the middle because the defensive guards at the top of the zone are having to swing further from side to side on the ball reversals, and the defensive center has to keep an eye on the baseline forward rather than just the high post. You even create driving lanes for the wing guards if they are decisive with the ball and the baseline forward is hustling to the ball side on reversals to occupy the low block defender. It also opens up the give and go off the entry pass to the high post.

UConn, at our best, had a good passing center like Knight, Voskuhl or Okafor that was basically just tapping the pass down to Donny, Freeman or Boone cutting to the block. You do that a few times, and those low block defenders will be staying very close to home, leaving the 3's wide open.

I also don't like the 4 out against the zone because the biggest weakness of the zone is defensive rebounding. It is hard to find someone to box out when you don't have a man to guard. That said, when the offensive has 4 guys behind the 3 point line, it doesn't much matter if the defense is boxing out or not, they will still get the rebound.
 
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Someone flashing to the ball side short corner is as important as the high post against the zone. The corner 3 is generally not there unless the ball reversal is really crisp or the pass comes from the inside.

Most teams, including UConn, have a 4 out basic offensive set that is designed to create dribble drive opportunities for your strongest player or against their weakest defender. Those don't work against a zone. The basic formation for a 4-out actually puts each offensive player directly on a defender, making the defensive rotations a lot easier. Even if the passing is really crisp, the corner 3 will usually be a little rushed, making it a lower percentage shot, and the high post is usually pretty well defended.

The holes in a zone are at 45 degrees from the hoop either direction, and hose holes can be pretty big on ball reversals. I like 1-3-1 sets against a zone (like Geno does). Your guards end up being at 45 degree angles to the hoop, and the baseline forward can pin down the two block defenders, causing trouble for the defense without even touching the ball. This opens up the middle because the defensive guards at the top of the zone are having to swing further from side to side on the ball reversals, and the defensive center has to keep an eye on the baseline forward rather than just the high post. You even create driving lanes for the wing guards if they are decisive with the ball and the baseline forward is hustling to the ball side on reversals to occupy the low block defender. It also opens up the give and go off the entry pass to the high post.

UConn, at our best, had a good passing center like Knight, Voskuhl or Okafor that was basically just tapping the pass down to Donny, Freeman or Boone cutting to the block. You do that a few times, and those low block defenders will be staying very close to home, leaving the 3's wide open.

I also don't like the 4 out against the zone because the biggest weakness of the zone is defensive rebounding. It is hard to find someone to box out when you don't have a man to guard. That said, when the offensive has 4 guys behind the 3 point line, it doesn't much matter if the defense is boxing out or not, they will still get the rebound.

Agree on the short corner. Passes from there will eat a 2-3 for breakfast. But the player who gets the ball there has to be HEADY. Thats a terrifying place to be if you arent cinfident passing.

You think we gave any big with that confidence?
 

nelsonmuntz

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Agree on the short corner. Passes from there will eat a 2-3 for breakfast. But the player who gets the ball there has to be HEADY. Thats a terrifying place to be if you arent cinfident passing.

You think we gave any big with that confidence?

I don't need the short corner player doing a lot of passing. He is the result of the offense, not the starting point. The ball gets to him when the low block defender has left his spot, often to defend the 3 point shooter at 45 degrees, or penetration in the soft spot of the zone long that 45 degree axis.

Let's say there is a crisp ball reversal to the wing. On defense you have D2 (the top of the zone guard on that side), D5 (center) and D4 (low block defender). On offensive you have O3 (wing), O5 (center) and O4 (baseline forward). If you make a quick ball reversal, and D2 is even half a second late coming around, O3 will have a driving lane. Now it is 3 on 2. O3 will read D5 and D4 for the pass. If D5 steps out, O5 passes high to O5 for a layup or dunk. If D4 steps up, O3 bounces to O4 for a short jumper or an attack of the basket. If no one steps up on D, then O3 takes it all the way.

You don't want O4 making a lot of reads there. O5 is a lot tougher position with more decisions and requiring better passing.
 
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Make threes. Treys are zone busters. They pull teams out of a zone pretty fast.

Is the question really, how can a team like UConn who has trouble making threes defeat the zone? The answer to that is pretty simple as well. The guard needs to beat his man, dribble penetrate and draw inside defenders and either shoot the short shot or pass down low to the now undefended team mate.

Or the guard passes to a big or wing at the foul line. When that player's defender comes out, he either shoots from the foul line, goes by him or passes down low.

It's a bit more complicated because teammates have to move along the baseline into spaces vacated by defenders, but that is the basic way to do it.

Making threes is the easiest and best way.
 
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HuskyHawk

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Call it what you want. Defenders follow the ball, which creates space, the offensive players need to move into the open space and look for the ball back. Pass and cut, pass and move, call it whatever you want, the ball needs to move and the players need to move, otherwise you become very easy to defend.

And it's something we are terrible at. Often it's 4 guys standing still while one guy dribbles in place, then hoists a contested shot. These guys should watch Richard Hamilton videos an hour a day and then go live it. Even if they don't chase the same way in a 2-3, motion on offense forces the zone to shift, stretch and adjust, creating seams for cutters or penetrating guards.

Agree the keys are:
  • getting a triple threat player the ball at the FT line (Larrier, DHam was good at it)
  • making open shots
  • moving off the ball.
 

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