Another HS FB Player dies from on field hit

[ConnHuskBask]

Just read this morning a kid out in Long island passed away after an on field head collision.

Article said it was the third kid nationally just this week to die from injuries sustained on the field.

I love football, but at least at the high school level I think people/ schools are eventually going to begin evaluating their participation.

The concussions as bad as they are, are one thing, but man, teenage kids dying playing the game? Think you have to look long and hard about where the game stands and it's future.

 

[Bonehead]

Just read this morning a kid out in Long island passed away after an on field head collision.

Article said it was the third kid nationally just this week to die from injuries sustained on the field.

I love football, but at least at the high school level I think people/ schools are eventually going to begin evaluating their participation.

The concussions as bad as they are, are one thing, but man, teenage kids dying playing the game? Think you have to look long and hard about where the game stands and it's future.

3 high school FB deaths this week - is possible that one of the others had pre existing medical condition but had read it would be difficult to tell at this time.

Shame that this is happening at the rate it is. And I saw a CTE study - 93 out 0f 97 former NFL players studied showing signs of CTE. (dont hold me to the numbers but it was HIGH - cant find link right now)

Javon Belcher, Mike Webster, Chris Henry and Junior Seau made it through the game but all showed signs of CTE in their unfortunate deaths.

Weight limits the answer?
Better helmets?
Lineman only in standing positions?

I dont know the answers but these are some of the options out there.

 

[Bonehead]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/...dies-suffering-head-injury-third-recent-death

 

[tiger8mush]

Does Rugby have this many issues with concussions and head injuries? They play without helmets which forces them to tackle different - with shoulders and arms instead of head. I also believe there are different rules for Rugby in that you must wrap the player up to be considered a tackle.

Having a helmet on seems to give NFLers a feeling of invincibility and they end up leading head first when going into a tackle or on the offensive side but leading with their head because they feel their body is most vulnerable.

Just a thought on NFL mentality with helmets vs Rugby mentality w/o helmets - is this comparing apples to oranges or does wearing a helmet not really make the game safer? What if only the offense wore a light helmet?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Does Rugby have this many issues with concussions and head injuries? They play without helmets which forces them to tackle different - with shoulders and arms instead of head. I also believe there are different rules for Rugby in that you must wrap the player up to be considered a tackle.

Having a helmet on seems to give NFLers a feeling of invincibility and they end up leading head first when going into a tackle or on the offensive side but leading with their head because they feel their body is most vulnerable.

Just a thought on NFL mentality with helmets vs Rugby mentality w/o helmets - is this comparing apples to oranges or does wearing a helmet not really make the game safer? What if only the offense wore a light helmet?

You bring up something I've been saying for a long time. If you want to improve safety, go back to leather helmets. Guys will start tackling the right way.

 

[Irishfan]

Joe Paterno used to say that if you want to stop players from leading with their head, just take the face masks off the helmets.

 

[CTFootball]

Everyone loves to compare Rugby to football, but in many aspects it is a very different. Not an expert on Rugby or concussions, but I suspect many football concussions are the result of vicious hits on defenseless players (QB sacks, receivers hit by the secondary, special teams play, multiple blocks on a player, etc). Some notable differences in rugby:

. There is no blocking
. No forward passing, which takes away sacks, vicious down field hits on receivers or vicious tackles.
. Rugby defense basically forms a line against the offense formation (you dont have defensive players spread all over the field, so I think there are fewer vicious hits at full speed and head on collisions).
. They do not have kickoffs and punts (which is one of the more violent aspects of football).

I agree some concussions are caused by helmet to helmet and certainly not saying that rugby isnt a physical sport. I just think certain aspects of football may make the sport more prone to those injuries.
FYI - I have traveled alot to Europe and many rugby followers think football is much less violent because of helmets and other protective gear.

 

[BlueDogs]

All of this is due to performance enhancing drugs. Players are vastly bigger and faster than 20 years ago. The physics is simple : Force (F)=m*a The more mass (M), the more force (F). When two objects collide, there is a massive deceleration (negative acceleration), creating force on the objects. Acceleration is merely change in velocity (speed) over time. So, the faster the player is moving, the greater the acceleration or deceleration on impact. When you have a head collision, the force must be dissipated. It is dissipated as a shock wave into the cranium. Helmets can only do two things. First, they can spread out the force over a wider area, distributing and lessening the force at impact by spreading it. This is what the hard shell effectively does. Second, you can lengthen or slow the deceleration - that is the spongy padding which absorbs the impact like a spring making it a longer hit in time elapse (were talking micro seconds) as opposed to sharp sudden impact. The third option is redirecting the force making it a glancing blow. Before I knew anything, I found that when I would wear a loose chinstrap on impact my helmet would turn and pull on my face and I saw a lot less stars. Conversely, which most players do, by wearing a tight fitted and tight strapped helmet, I would get my bell rung much more often.

Of course at my ripe old age and at least 5 known diagnosed concussions, I know it has impacted me. But, I also knew it was a hyper-violent game that I wanted to play, and that's the price. So, while I would like to see players protected better, I also believe we are living in a society of increasing professional victims and whiners. I took the risk. I knew the cost plenty well, even in high school and college. Heck, you had to be a moron not to know the risks after Nick Buoniconti's kid broke his neck at the Citadel back in my day.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Of course at my ripe old age and at least 5 known diagnosed concussions, I know it has impacted me. But, I also knew it was a hyper-violent game that I wanted to play, and that's the price. So, while I would like to see players protected better, I also believe we are living in a society of increasing professional victims and whiners. I took the risk. I knew the cost plenty well, even in high school and college. Heck, you had to be a moron not to know the risks after Nick Buoniconti's kid broke his neck at the Citadel back in my day.

Ok, so as a freshman entering High school, a kids aren't allowed to drive, but entrusted to make decisions regarding the long term ( and unfortunately in some cases short term) neurological damage to themselves?

I don't see how anyone can sit back in a week when 3 kids die and say everyone is whiner these day and age.

 

[WingU-Conn]

The third option is redirecting the force making it a glancing blow. Before I knew anything, I found that when I would wear a loose chinstrap on impact my helmet would turn and pull on my face and I saw a lot less stars. Conversely, which most players do, by wearing a tight fitted and tight strapped helmet, I would get my bell rung much more often.

If this is true for everyone, and not just you, it's interesting that the new rules are apparently counter-intuitive. If you lose your helmet, you have to sit a play, so guys are encouraged to make sure their helmets are strapped tight, meaning they MAY be even more likely to sustain a concussion.

 

[WingU-Conn]

One potential problem with taking helmets away is when receivers jump for a ball and are upended. What happens when a guy gets his legs taken out, flips and falls on his head/neck. Assuming he still has on shoulder pads, how will he absorb that blow without breaking his neck?

I think taking the face masks off is a great idea. It will eliminate the face mask penalty and risk to the neck and knees/ankles from those tackles.

 

[Irishfan]

While any deaths of high school players should be unacceptable, it should be noted that the number of these deaths have decreased dramatically since the '70's.

1970's - 119
1980's - 59
1990's - 33
2000's - 35
2010-2012 - 4

So while players are bigger and faster, rule changes and improved equipment have made the sport safer than it used to be.

 

[Bonehead]

While any deaths of high school players should be unacceptable, it should be noted that the number of these deaths have decreased dramatically since the '70's.

1970's - 119
1980's - 59
1990's - 33
2000's - 35
2010-2012 - 4

So while players are bigger and faster, rule changes and improved equipment have made the sport safer than it used to be.

Interesting.
That was a lot of deaths in the 70's.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Ok, so as a freshman entering High school, a kids aren't allowed to drive, but entrusted to make decisions regarding the long term ( and unfortunately in some cases short term) neurological damage to themselves?

I don't see how anyone can sit back in a week when 3 kids die and say everyone is whiner these day and age.

There was one year in the early sixties which saw a rash of deaths (as many as six) related to high School football. Turned out that there was a helmet design flaw. As I remember (I was very young), it was explained that the rear edge of the most popular helmet met the neck directly over the point where the brain stem connects to the spinal chord. Certain types of contact, in a very small number of cases, forced the helmet edge to impinge on an organ/part of the brain called (I never forgot this piece of anatomy) the medulla oblongata which is like a microprocessor that controls respiration, blood pressure and other significant stuff.

The original fix was to cut and pad the rear edge higher on the neck so that it couldn't reach the brain stem. That's also when we started seeing weird/exotic looking donut type neck protective devices. It looks like recent helmet designs, much larger because of concussion awareness, are again riding lower but with stand-offs to keep the hard edge away from the stem. However, it seems to me that football continues to outpace helmet technology. Given the related physical science described so well by "BlueDogs" (above) and the fact that the brain is suspended in the skull (not a snug fit) leads me to believe that playing football exposes every player to brain injury.

 

[BlueDogs]

Ok, so as a freshman entering High school, a kids aren't allowed to drive, but entrusted to make decisions regarding the long term ( and unfortunately in some cases short term) neurological damage to themselves?

I don't see how anyone can sit back in a week when 3 kids die and say everyone is whiner these day and age.

Ok, so as a freshman entering High school, a kids aren't allowed to drive, but entrusted to make decisions regarding the long term ( and unfortunately in some cases short term) neurological damage to themselves?

I don't see how anyone can sit back in a week when 3 kids die and say everyone is whiner these day and age.

The sport is violent and players die every year. Every time it is a tragedy. But, it is the nature of the beast. My point is our society has become weak and coddled. In our over litigious and nanny state world, everybody should be protected from anything that could be bad. But, that's not reality, not does it build character. To repeat FOOTBALL IS A VIOLENT AND DANGEROUS SPORT. It is preparation for war and it is one of the reasons we have incredibly effective war fighters. No other country inculcates their youth like this. Take football away, and society changes. Man up and take the risk or don't. If you can't handle it, then play soccer, join the debate team or choir. That's ok too.

 

[John]

The sport is violent and players die every year. Every time it is a tragedy. But, it is the nature of the beast. My point is our society has become weak and coddled. In our over litigious and nanny state world, everybody should be protected from anything that could be bad. But, that's not reality, not does it build character. To repeat FOOTBALL IS A VIOLENT AND DANGEROUS SPORT. It is preparation for war and it is one of the reasons we have incredibly effective war fighters. No other country inculcates their youth like this. Take football away, and society changes. Man up and take the risk or don't. If you can't handle it, then play soccer, join the debate team or choir. That's ok too.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen posted here.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

The sport is violent and players die every year. Every time it is a tragedy. But, it is the nature of the beast. My point is our society has become weak and coddled. In our over litigious and nanny state world, everybody should be protected from anything that could be bad. But, that's not reality, not does it build character. To repeat FOOTBALL IS A VIOLENT AND DANGEROUS SPORT. It is preparation for war and it is one of the reasons we have incredibly effective war fighters. No other country inculcates their youth like this. Take football away, and society changes. Man up and take the risk or don't. If you can't handle it, then play soccer, join the debate team or choir. That's ok too.

Internet tough guys are charming. Maybe not so much when we're talking about a serious subject like 3 HS dying in a week.

 

[BlueDogs]

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen posted here.

Not sure what is ridiculous or tough guy about the basic reality. But, to each his own. Every player knows there is a possibility you can break your neck, and if you break your neck you can die. I have a fracture in my 3rd vertebrae which healed funny from college football. I played my junior year thinking I would die because everytime I hit somebody excruciating pain shot into my head. I waited to after the season to see a neurologist because if I told the trainor or a coach they would have pulled me. Thirty years later, if my head is jolted pain still shoots up into my head. Stupid? Yes. Did I know the risks? Yes.

In terms of football's relation to preparing young men for war, I suggest you do some reading. There are are books written on the subject.

 

[John]

Not sure what is ridiculous or tough guy about the basic reality. But, to each his own. Every player knows there is a possibility you can break your neck, and if you break your neck you can die. I have a fracture in my 3rd vertebrae which healed funny from college football. I played my junior year thinking I would die because everytime I hit somebody excruciating pain shot into my head. I waited to after the season to see a neurologist because if I told the trainor or a coach they would have pulled me. Thirty years later, if my head is jolted pain still shoots up into my head. Stupid? Yes. Did I know the risks? Yes.

In terms of football's relation to preparing young men for war, I suggest you do some reading. There are are books written on the subject.

The Romans played football? How about those Germans? Alexander the Great? Ghengis Kahn? Napoleon?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Not sure what is ridiculous or tough guy about the basic reality. But, to each his own. Every player knows there is a possibility you can break your neck, and if you break your neck you can die. I have a fracture in my 3rd vertebrae which healed funny from college football. I played my junior year thinking I would die because everytime I hit somebody excruciating pain shot into my head. I waited to after the season to see a neurologist because if I told the trainor or a coach they would have pulled me. Thirty years later, if my head is jolted pain still shoots up into my head. Stupid? Yes. Did I know the risks? Yes.

In terms of football's relation to preparing young men for war, I suggest you do some reading. There are are books written on the subject.

You thought you would die every hit and continued to play? Why?

 

[Carl Spackler]

When I did play, I strapped my headgear on so tight that my head would have to be separated from my body for it to come off. In the recent past, there was a lot of helmet flying off on contact, in the NFL mostly - must have been some kind of design flaw or something.

For those that don't think that American football is a sport that involves concepts of training for warfare, let me introduce you to the United States Military Academy at West Point, the United States Naval Acadamy at Annapolis, and the United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. Football, is an integral part of education at these places.

It's unfortunate that young people die playing the sport, but it is what it is. It's happened in CT too over the years.

 

[noeynox]

Serious topic, but anybody else think of the movie Waterboy, when they read medulla oblongata in fairtides post?

 

[WingU-Conn]

I'm so sick of people comparing football to war. Get some fahkin perspective.

Here's a list of the athletics at West Point....

Schedules

• Baseball
• Men's Basketball
• Women's Basketball
• Cross Country
• Football
• Golf
• Gymnastics
• Hockey
• Lacrosse
• Rifle
• Sprint Football
• Swimming & Diving
• Men's Soccer
• Women's Soccer
• Softball
• Men's Tennis
• Women's Tennis
• Track
• Volleyball
• Wrestling

WTF do Golf and Tennis have to do with war?

Our military academies could scrap football tomorrow and we'd still have the most powerful military in the world for several reasons (in no particular oder):

All-Volunteer force
Resources
Technology
Infrastructure
Population

FOH with that nonsense.

 

[noeynox]

Whenever I hear FB, compared to war I think of the soulja, Kellen Winslow.

 

[John]

You thought you would die every hit and continued to play? Why?

that's what I was wondering.