. . . and then there were two.

[OldSchooler]

A friend of mine here in Jersey, who hails from Atlanta, is always telling me, "Wait 'til your Big East face some real competition, from the SEC." Well, there haven't been any BE/SEC faceoffs in the NCAA tournament yet this year, and the only possible one could be UConn vs SC in the championship round. But some other stats are revealing.

When the tournament began, there were eight SEC teams and four BE teams in play. Entering the FF, only one from each conference is still standing. But compare the records. The eight SEC teams have gone 8-7 so far (4-7 without SC), and the four BE teams have gone 9-3 so far (5-3 without UConn).

I think the BE has acquitted itself quite well, thank you.

 

[genzhusk]

All non-SC SEC teams got blown out by all the other P5 matchups. At a 100% rate. And besides Georgia-Dayton they barely escaped non-P5 schools.

Seriously genuine question…Last year the SEC had similar results come tournament time. Why are they always touted as the best conference? (e.g. getting more teams in than any other conference)

 

[The deacon]

All non-SC SEC teams got blown out by all the other P5 matchups. At a 100% rate. And besides Georgia-Dayton they barely escaped non-P5 schools.

Seriously genuine question…Last year the SEC had similar results come tournament time. Why are they always touted as the best conference? (e.g. getting more teams in than any other conference)

Excellent point(s) raised by you both, OldSchooler and 123me.

This is about the women's tournament, but the same situation exists on the men's side, this time with the Big Ten as the overrated conference getting too many teams in each year and getting sent packing quickly... this year to the tune of a 9-9 record.

Unfortunately, with the number of top or potentially top coaches already in the SEC and several more just arrived (Shea Ralph) or about to (Vic Schaefer), the SEC might very well soon live up to its billing.

 

[genzhusk]

Excellent point(s) raised by you both, OldSchooler and 123me.

This is about the women's tournament, but the same situation exists on the men's side, this time with the Big Ten as the overrated conference getting too many teams in each year and getting sent packing quickly... this year to the tune of a 9-9 record.

Unfortunately, with the number of top or potentially top coaches already in the SEC and several more just arrived (Shea Ralph) or about to (Vic Schaefer), the SEC might very well soon live up to its billing.

True. I have seen that too, fans bringing light to the fact that some conferences don’t need that much of a showing because it means giving losing records an overlook. Both on men’s and women’s side.

I saw a thread on mbb twitter that there should be two AQs: regular season champs and tourney champs. That would hopefully give mid-majors a second chance to get in a little more teams.

 

[SVCBeercats]

I think the BE has acquitted itself quite well, thank you.

It has been quite a while but Louisville is a Big East alumnus.

 

[genzhusk]

For old timers I have a question about P5 status and if that’s a new thing in wbb….

All this talk about P5 dominance (on the women’s side) is this new? Fans of P5 schools are constantly discrediting achievements by non- SEC, ACC, B1G, Big12, and Pac-12 schools. Example: many fans of a certain SEC team took disliking to UCF being rated as the #1 defensive rating in the country saying “their non-P5 conference is a good stat padder.” based on the results of this tourney, playing defense in the SEC is a great stat padder as well.

It was also interesting in the post Uconn-Indiana game a reporter (who has been taking shots at UConn all tourney) said to Moren that “it took a P5 school to end your season.” How is UConn a P5 school? I guess based on money/resources it definitely matches up, but I thought P5 schools were in the P5 football conferences only?

So i guess my question for those who have been around for a long time…

1. Was the old big east (2013-prior) called a P5 conference?
2. Is the “P5 superiority“ concept a new thing?
3. is UConn a mid-major?
4. BTW i like UConn in the big east for historical reasons, it’s nice!
5. If you’ve made it this far and feel kind enough to respond, thanks for the history lesson.

 

[shiverz45]

A friend of mine here in Jersey, who hails from Atlanta, is always telling me, "Wait 'til your Big East face some real competition, from the SEC." Well, there haven't been any BE/SEC faceoffs in the NCAA tournament yet this year, and the only possible one could be UConn vs SC in the championship round. But some other stats are revealing.

When the tournament began, there were eight SEC teams and four BE teams in play. Entering the FF, only one from each conference is still standing. But compare the records. The eight SEC teams have gone 8-7 so far (4-7 without SC), and the four BE teams have gone 9-3 so far (5-3 without UConn).

I think the BE has acquitted itself quite well, thank you.

SC did play Big East Creighton. Yes, the Big East did well. I do expect 4 to 5 Big East teams in the tournament next year.

 

[nwhoopfan]

SC did play Big East Creighton. Yes, the Big East did well. I do expect 4 to 5 Big East teams in the tournament next year.

I thought it was odd that so far this thread was pretending like that game didn't happen.

 

[BBallF]

It has been quite a while but Louisville is a Big East alumnus.

As is Notre Dame.

 

[OldSchooler]

I thought it was odd that so far this thread was pretending like that game didn't happen.

You're right. My bad. That's been the only SEC/BE matchup in the tourney so far.

 

[JellyBean]

For old timers I have a question about P5 status and if that’s a new thing in wbb….

All this talk about P5 dominance (on the women’s side) is this new? Fans of P5 schools are constantly discrediting achievements by non- SEC, ACC, B1G, Big12, and Pac-12 schools. Example: many fans of a certain SEC team took disliking to UCF being rated as the #1 defensive rating in the country saying “their non-P5 conference is a good stat padder.” based on the results of this tourney, playing defense in the SEC is a great stat padder as well.

It was also interesting in the post Uconn-Indiana game a reporter (who has been taking shots at UConn all tourney) said to Moren that “it took a P5 school to end your season.” How is UConn a P5 school? I guess based on money/resources it definitely matches up, but I thought P5 schools were in the P5 football conferences only?

So i guess my question for those who have been around for a long time…

1. Was the old big east (2013-prior) called a P5 conference?
2. Is the “P5 superiority“ concept a new thing?
3. is UConn a mid-major?
4. BTW i like UConn in the big east for historical reasons, it’s nice!
5. If you’ve made it this far and feel kind enough to respond, thanks for the history lesson.

Great discussion.

Should be interesting to see the responses.

 

[UcMiami]

For old timers I have a question about P5 status and if that’s a new thing in wbb….

All this talk about P5 dominance (on the women’s side) is this new? Fans of P5 schools are constantly discrediting achievements by non- SEC, ACC, B1G, Big12, and Pac-12 schools. Example: many fans of a certain SEC team took disliking to UCF being rated as the #1 defensive rating in the country saying “their non-P5 conference is a good stat padder.” based on the results of this tourney, playing defense in the SEC is a great stat padder as well.

It was also interesting in the post Uconn-Indiana game a reporter (who has been taking shots at UConn all tourney) said to Moren that “it took a P5 school to end your season.” How is UConn a P5 school? I guess based on money/resources it definitely matches up, but I thought P5 schools were in the P5 football conferences only?

So i guess my question for those who have been around for a long time…

1. Was the old big east (2013-prior) called a P5 conference?
2. Is the “P5 superiority“ concept a new thing?
3. is UConn a mid-major?
4. BTW i like UConn in the big east for historical reasons, it’s nice!
5. If you’ve made it this far and feel kind enough to respond, thanks for the history lesson.

The previous iteration of the college football universe had Six power conferences including the old BE and the abbreviation P6 was used to indicate that group of six conferences. When the balloon went up with realignment and the dismemberment of the OBE it then became the P5.

P5 and P6 have always been primarily associated with football, but it is an easy way to refer to the major conferences in other sports and since the death of the BE, Uconn has been on the outside looking in.

And, yes, the new BE does feel like home, but Uconn would jump in a minute if one of the P5 invited them in.

 

[Boreifs]

The Big East is a Conference without football ( UConn is the outler). Given the success of teams historically (both men and women), no one would ever dare call it a “mid-major” conference.

 

[bballnut90]

For old timers I have a question about P5 status and if that’s a new thing in wbb….

All this talk about P5 dominance (on the women’s side) is this new? Fans of P5 schools are constantly discrediting achievements by non- SEC, ACC, B1G, Big12, and Pac-12 schools. Example: many fans of a certain SEC team took disliking to UCF being rated as the #1 defensive rating in the country saying “their non-P5 conference is a good stat padder.” based on the results of this tourney, playing defense in the SEC is a great stat padder as well.

It was also interesting in the post Uconn-Indiana game a reporter (who has been taking shots at UConn all tourney) said to Moren that “it took a P5 school to end your season.” How is UConn a P5 school? I guess based on money/resources it definitely matches up, but I thought P5 schools were in the P5 football conferences only?

So i guess my question for those who have been around for a long time…

1. Was the old big east (2013-prior) called a P5 conference?
2. Is the “P5 superiority“ concept a new thing?
3. is UConn a mid-major?
4. BTW i like UConn in the big east for historical reasons, it’s nice!
5. If you’ve made it this far and feel kind enough to respond, thanks for the history lesson.

1. As @UcMiami noted, it was the P6 back in the day and Big East was one of the teams.
2. It goes in waves in that every few years certain conferences look strong, others not as much. For much of the 2000s and early 2010s, both the Pac 10 and Big Ten were quite weak and didn't garner the respect that the other four P6 conferences did. The P5 superiority complex seems to have garnered more attention in the last few years, especially this year since 8 non-P5 or UCONN teams won their first round game, two #10 seeds knocked off #2 seeds on the road, and many others came close to pulling off major upsets on the road (ex. Belmont, UCF, Princeton, UT-Arlington, UNLV).


Prior to UCONN joining the AAC, the Big East was a powerhouse for several years with UCONN, Notre Dame, Louisville and Rutgers all having very formidable programs. In its last year, the Final Four had 3 Big East teams. Prior to around 2007ish, the Big East had up and down years but was almost always considered a top 3 conference, usually alongside the SEC/ACC, though Big 12 had some very good years.


3. Technically yes since they are not a P5, but they aren't included on any best mid-major lists since they're a major outlier compared to any other mid-major.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

For old timers I have a question about P5 status and if that’s a new thing in wbb….

All this talk about P5 dominance (on the women’s side) is this new? Fans of P5 schools are constantly discrediting achievements by non- SEC, ACC, B1G, Big12, and Pac-12 schools. Example: many fans of a certain SEC team took disliking to UCF being rated as the #1 defensive rating in the country saying “their non-P5 conference is a good stat padder.” based on the results of this tourney, playing defense in the SEC is a great stat padder as well.

It was also interesting in the post Uconn-Indiana game a reporter (who has been taking shots at UConn all tourney) said to Moren that “it took a P5 school to end your season.” How is UConn a P5 school? I guess based on money/resources it definitely matches up, but I thought P5 schools were in the P5 football conferences only?

So i guess my question for those who have been around for a long time…

1. Was the old big east (2013-prior) called a P5 conference?
2. Is the “P5 superiority“ concept a new thing?
3. is UConn a mid-major?
4. BTW i like UConn in the big east for historical reasons, it’s nice!
5. If you’ve made it this far and feel kind enough to respond, thanks for the history lesson.

UcMiami and bballnut90 have given great historical context to the "P5" designation. The question "Is UConn a mid-major?" is somewhat complex.

When the term "P5" was initially floated, it referred to conferences whose schools were given special consideration for football bowl games, and especially for the newly instituted playoffs to identify an "on field" champion as opposed to a "voted on" champion. The trouble was the outlier, Notre Dame. The Irish didn't participate in a football conference but they did have a special place, given past performance, in the public's football imagination. So the Irish got included with the P5 for bowl selection purposes.

On to basketball, specifically women's basketball. The Big East is not a P5 conference and thus defaults to a mid-major. But just like football, there is an outlier whose past, and (hopefully) foreseeable future, is so special they, like Notre Dame in football, must be included with P5 teams in discussions of performance excellence. In fact, they are so special, the discussion must start with them.

 

[visitingcock]

Generally speaking, the PAC minus Stanford did about the same as the SEC minus SCar.

The NET had them ranked 1 and two based on percentage of wins in OOC competition. It’s clear why they were ranked the two best based on objective criteria. Conference NET Ranking - 2022 Women's College Basketball | WarrenNolan.com


And yet they bombed in the tournament.

 

[TC22]

If you look at the conference individual teams NET ranking, the ACC had 3 top 10's. SEC has SC and that's it. The next was Tennessee at 18 and LSU was 20. Then you go to the PAC and it's just Stanford. I still think no more than 7 out of each conference. Give the top Mid-majors a chance.

 

[visitingcock]

Make it top half of conference. SEC 7, PAC 6, Big 12 5 etc etc.

If you aren't top half, you really don't deserve it