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Message: [QUOTE="nomar, post: 5015302, member: 651"] IMO, if a guy comes in and pitches like Steve Nebraska for a season and then his arm falls off, he's not a Hall of Famer even if he was the best pitcher of all time in that one season. The line has to be drawn somewhere. For a long time, I think Koufax has set the mark for a guy with a short career. The line's been blurred a bit (e.g., Kirby Puckett), but there's still a minimum amount of production that's required in my view. Boog's arguing that DeGrom's WHIP should get him in. His WHIP is [I]that[/I] great because he got hurt (repeatedly) before he could decline. (Pedro's WHIP over 7 years in Boston, in more IP than DeGrom's career IP -- again, in the heart of the steroid era -- is better than DeGrom's career WHIP.) Every time DeGrom came out he threw gas, but he just didn't come out enough. Maybe he'll add a coda to his career -- maybe, as Deep suggests, he could be a closer for a few years a la Smoltz. Still not sure that would be enough but it would help. This all leads to a bigger discussion about guys throwing too hard and what it's doing to their careers. Certainly, because of injuries, the standard for how long a career needs to be will go down. But 1325 IP for a starter is way too low. [/QUOTE]