AHL shakeup

[Fishy]

Kind of expected....

The AHL teams in Worcester, Glens Falls (NY), Norfolk (VA) and Oklahoma City will bounce to California to form a Pacific Division with the LA Kings-owned team in Manchester, NH who will relocate to Ontario.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Kind of expected....

The AHL teams in Worcester, Glens Falls (NY), Norfolk (VA) and Oklahoma City will bounce to California to form a Pacific Division with the LA Kings-owned team in Manchester, NH who will relocate to Ontario.

This is a big surprise to me. California is not that great of a hockey market while downgrading a team that ranks #12 of 30 in AHL attendance figures to ECHL is rough. I think the AHL is making the same mistake that the NHL has made - moving a hockey team to a city just because there are people there does not make sense unless those people want to watch hockey. The other move I can see. Glad Portland ME is not losing their team though they have had attendance issues due to a dispute between their arean and team ownership that is no on year #2.

http://www.wmur.com/sports/monarchs-moving-to-california/30995094

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Dickie Dunn got it wrong again.

 

[gorskic]

The real driver in this was the NHL clubs wanted their development teams much closer to the parent club. They really don't give a toss about AHL hockey fans a continent away. In a way, I don't blame them but...this kind of sucks. It will be interesting to see what happens when/if the Sound Tigers move out of Bridgeport and into Nassau. There are more shoes to drop here and I do not envy the job of the AHL commissioner.

 

[Vowelguy]

I'd guess Hartford & Springfield move into the division with Portland, Providence, St J, with Bridgeport joining a NY division of Alb-Syr-Uti-Roch.

 

[Waquoit]

I'd guess Hartford & Springfield move into the division with Portland, Providence, St J, with Bridgeport joining a NY division of Alb-Syr-Uti-Roch.

I just hope Hartford keeps the Pack.

 

[FDNY99]

That sucks for Glens Falls. I played in a benefit game up there last year before a Phantoms game, and that town supports their AHL team really good. The arena is perfect for minor league hockey too. They worked like crazy to secure the new team they got and after 1 season they will be gone.

 

[Vowelguy]

That sucks for Glens Falls. I played in a benefit game up there last year before a Phantoms game, and that town supports their AHL team really good. The arena is perfect for minor league hockey too. They worked like crazy to secure the new team they got and after 1 season they will be gone.

They're gonna get an ECHL team.

 

[FDNY99]

They're gonna get an ECHL team.

I guess it's better than nothing...but the AHL has been in that place for a LONG time. The Adirondack Red Wings have a more than a few banners hanging there. Fun town on game night

 

[TheDoggPound]

I just hope Hartford keeps the Pack.

I don't. Rangers are not a fit with this market. Geographically they are but to have their team here when this market is predominately Bruins and Whalers fans is inappropriate imo.

Hartford will get another affiliate.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I guess it's better than nothing...but the AHL has been in that place for a LONG time. The Adirondack Red Wings have a more than a few banners hanging there. Fun town on game night

One of the first hockey games I remember going to was the Adirondack Red Wings versus the New Haven Nighthawks in New Haven. I thought it was great because each team had roughly 4 players in the penalty box each within 2 minutes of the puck being dropped. Apparently there was some bad blood from the prior game and the gloves dropped faster than the pucks. To this day, I can't stand the Detroit Red Wings because of that game. LOL.

 

[Pudge]

It does suck for a core hockey fan in & around Glens Falls. And the other markets. Probably solidly 500-750 travel & really live with that team as rabid.

There's simply no way the California fans - more Hispanic (read soccer) - will appreciate what was a strong form of entertainment in small northeast cities. Lots of Red Wings have gone through Glens Falls. Many - like Barry Melrose - settled with families in that cool city.

 

[Vowelguy]

In CA, Bakersfield, Stockton, and Ontario are merely upgrading from ECHL to AHL teams. I presume those markets have done ok.

Meanwhile, Glens Falls, Manchester, and Norfolk will keep hockey -- just ECHL instead of AHL. Worcester and OKC are the losers, tho OKC didn't have much support.

 

[FartMan69]

This is why affiliated minor league teams are garbage. They have weak season ticket bases because the parent club neglects the interest of the fan's because the main goal is development. One day i can see NHL clubs owning their own development teams and playing in scaled down arena's at minimal cost, just like the NBA's D-league

 

[DarthGrumpy]

In CA, Bakersfield, Stockton, and Ontario are merely upgrading from ECHL to AHL teams. I presume those markets have done ok.

Meanwhile, Glens Falls, Manchester, and Norfolk will keep hockey -- just ECHL instead of AHL. Worcester and OKC are the losers, tho OKC didn't have much support.

http://www.echl.com/stats/schedule.php?view=attendance

 

[Vowelguy]

http://www.echl.com/stats/schedule.php?view=attendance

Ontario is #1 and the other 2 are above the league average. Seems like decent potential with higher level of play.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

This is a big surprise to me. California is not that great of a hockey market while downgrading a team that ranks #12 of 30 in AHL attendance figures to ECHL is rough. I think the AHL is making the same mistake that the NHL has made - moving a hockey team to a city just because there are people there does not make sense unless those people want to watch hockey. The other move I can see. Glad Portland ME is not losing their team though they have had attendance issues due to a dispute between their arean and team ownership that is no on year #2.

http://www.wmur.com/sports/monarchs-moving-to-california/30995094

Actually, hockey is growing rapidly in Southern California. The Kings and Sharks regularly sellout virtually every game and even the Ducks are growing rapidly in popularity. In fact, more and more colleges are recruiting out of SoCal now with the growth in number of youth leagues out there over the last 10 years. The kids who grew up watching Gretzky in LA are now going to college.

 

[kingdobbs]

This is a big surprise to me. California is not that great of a hockey market while downgrading a team that ranks #12 of 30 in AHL attendance figures to ECHL is rough. I think the AHL is making the same mistake that the NHL has made - moving a hockey team to a city just because there are people there does not make sense unless those people want to watch hockey. The other move I can see. Glad Portland ME is not losing their team though they have had attendance issues due to a dispute between their arean and team ownership that is no on year #2.

http://www.wmur.com/sports/monarchs-moving-to-california/30995094

Portland's not losing their team...yet.

But the writing's on the wall; we already saw Calgary try with Abbotsford BC, and both Dallas and Carolina have moved their teams (Texas Stars and Charlotte Checkers respectively, from Iowa and Albany) closer to home with moderate success. Philadelphia's baby Flyers are back in Eastern PA after being in Philly before losing the Spectrum, too.

Arizona, Colorado, and Vancouver won't wait long to pull their teams (Portland, Lake Erie/Cleveland, Utica) out west to match. Winnipeg won't keep the IceCaps in tiny St. John's forever; Tampa and Florida both have ECHL teams they can elevate nearby (Orlando for the Lightning, and the Florida Everblades for the Panthers); Springfield is on borrowed time, and Columbus will jump to fill in Cleveland if the Avalanche vacates it.

If the Islanders do what is expected and pull the Sound Tigers to Nassau, the Rangers will jump right on Bridgeport with the Wolf Pack struggling to draw (and with the persistent arena problem). The Habs have been preparing to pull the Hamilton Bulldogs into the Montreal suburbs. Binghamton lives or dies according to the goodwill of the Senators, because now both of the prominent Eastern Canadian franchises will have brought their teams into their home cities.

I give it about five years or so before the AHL pretty much looks like the NHL, in smaller cities.

 

[upstater]

Teams want minor leagues closer? Wouldn't it be easier to have one player fly across the country to go to the NHL rather than having entire teams fly across for games?

 

[Vowelguy]

Teams want minor leagues closer? Wouldn't it be easier to have one player fly across the country to go to the NHL rather than having entire teams fly across for games?

It's easier for the parent team to evaluate the players on the minor league team.

And hence the reason for relocating 5 teams to CA -- travel betwixt them not bad.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Portland's not losing their team...yet.

But the writing's on the wall; we already saw Calgary try with Abbotsford BC, and both Dallas and Carolina have moved their teams (Texas Stars and Charlotte Checkers respectively, from Iowa and Albany) closer to home with moderate success. Philadelphia's baby Flyers are back in Eastern PA after being in Philly before losing the Spectrum, too.

Arizona, Colorado, and Vancouver won't wait long to pull their teams (Portland, Lake Erie/Cleveland, Utica) out west to match. Winnipeg won't keep the IceCaps in tiny St. John's forever; Tampa and Florida both have ECHL teams they can elevate nearby (Orlando for the Lightning, and the Florida Everblades for the Panthers); Springfield is on borrowed time, and Columbus will jump to fill in Cleveland if the Avalanche vacates it.

If the Islanders do what is expected and pull the Sound Tigers to Nassau, the Rangers will jump right on Bridgeport with the Wolf Pack struggling to draw (and with the persistent arena problem). The Habs have been preparing to pull the Hamilton Bulldogs into the Montreal suburbs. Binghamton lives or dies according to the goodwill of the Senators, because now both of the prominent Eastern Canadian franchises will have brought their teams into their home cities.

I give it about five years or so before the AHL pretty much looks like the NHL, in smaller cities.

Pulling teams out of US cities has been done before, even if sucks and is not logical (Minnesota to Dallas?). But, pulling AHL teams out of Canadian cities, especially a city like Hamilton, which could likely support a NHL team better than Phoenix and others, would cause all sorts of problems. Canadian politicians could make it very uncomfortable NHL/AHL executives.

By the way, St. John's is tiny and is a pain to get to (plane only); but they are #10 in attendance at 5,000 plus per game.

 

[IMind]

It's worked at least for the Phantoms... the arena is about 100 feet from where I sit now... the ticket is a hard get and they're averaging around 9k per game.

My daughter played in a tournament in Glen Falls this year, great little civic center, loved it. I think an ECHL team will do really well there...

 

[kingdobbs]

Pulling teams out of US cities has been done before, even if sucks and is not logical (Minnesota to Dallas?). But, pulling AHL teams out of Canadian cities, especially a city like Hamilton, which could likely support a NHL team better than Phoenix and others, would cause all sorts of problems. Canadian politicians could make it very uncomfortable NHL/AHL executives.

By the way, St. John's is tiny and is a pain to get to (plane only); but they are #10 in attendance at 5,000 plus per game.

If Hamilton moves, it will be to the arena in Laval, a Montreal suburb, that the Canadiens ownership also owns and is currently building. The team won't leave Canada, just Hamilton.

St. John's is well supported since Winnipeg brought the Moose there upon WPGs return to the NHL. But the inconvenience and distance from the parent is not lost on the Jets, who may very well want to pull the Ice Caps closer to home if, say, Milwaukee were to become open.

Teams want minor leagues closer? Wouldn't it be easier to have one player fly across the country to go to the NHL rather than having entire teams fly across for games?

The NHL gives less than a about the inconvenience it causes the AHL.

The moves are entirely to the benefit of the parent clubs, and the only nod to the fact that it's awful for the AHL to be spread across five time zones is that they did a move for five entire teams so at least they can deliberately schedule long West Coast trips and unbalance the schedules geographically (which the AHL has been doing for some time now to be fair).

 

[DarthGrumpy]

If Hamilton moves, it will be to the arena in Laval, a Montreal suburb, that the Canadiens ownership also owns and is currently building. The team won't leave Canada, just Hamilton.

St. John's is well supported since Winnipeg brought the Moose there upon WPGs return to the NHL. But the inconvenience and distance from the parent is not lost on the Jets, who may very well want to pull the Ice Caps closer to home if, say, Milwaukee were to become open.

Don't underestimate internal Canadian politics, especially between Ontario and Quebec. Moving an AHL team from Ontario's 3rd largest metro area (5th largest city), and an histrionically important one at that which has dreams of its own NHL team, to a 'suburb' of Montreal, which happens to be Quebec's 3rd largest city, may raise some ire.

Maybe after all of this shake-up, especially if Hartford loses their AHL team to Bridgeport as some have indicated, old friend Peter Karmanos will move his OHL team from the burbs of Detroit back to Hartford so we can have the 'original' Whalers name back (again).

 

[gorskic]

Maybe after all of this shake-up, especially if Hartford loses their AHL team to Bridgeport as some have indicated, old friend Peter Karmanos will move his OHL team from the burbs of Detroit back to Hartford so we can have the 'original' Whalers name back (again).

That can't happen because all of New England was "claimed" by the QMJHL. Even though there isn't actually a Q club in New England anymore.