About That Referee Timeout With 1.5 Seconds Remaining

[JoePgh]

There has been a lot of discussion in several threads since the end of the DePaul game about the fact that the referees called an official timeout to check the clock setting after Caroline Ducharme scored the layup near the end of the game. People have generally argued that the refs should have simply let DePaul retrieve the ball and put it in play, rather than give them a free timeout to set up a play for those last few ticks.

I think there is one important factor that has not been mentioned in these posts. After Caroline Ducharme's layup was made and the ball fell through the bottom of the net, Dorka grabbed the ball and made a gesture as if she wanted to hand it to someone (the refs? the DePaul inbounder?). That was a definite no-no, and Dorka could have been called for a delay-of-game foul which would have given DePaul two free throws to tie the game. Maybe if she had simply let the ball go and gotten back on defense, the refs would not have whistled a timeout. As it was, Dorka's move probably cost DePaul two or three tenths of a second that they could have used for the inbounds play. The officials may have called the timeout so that they could determine whether time should be put back on the clock to offset the time that Dorka held the ball.

I think that is a better thing for the refs to do than calling a technical foul on Dorka. UConn may have gotten off easy on that play. If DePaul had had someone open under the basket at the other end of the court (I have no idea whether they did or not), they could theoretically have grabbed the ball and fired a court-length pass to that person for a layup to tie the game. Dorka holding the ball took that opportunity away (if it ever existed), which is why the rules don't allow you to do what she did.

 

[hard2please]

i believe the refs would have to issue a warning first to the player for delay of game to dorka for interfering with the ball after it went in. i think the second time this is done by the team it is called a technical foul.

 

[cferraro04]

There has been a lot of discussion in several threads since the end of the DePaul game about the fact that the referees called an official timeout to check the clock setting after Caroline Ducharme scored the layup near the end of the game. People have generally argued that the refs should have simply let DePaul retrieve the ball and put it in play, rather than give them a free timeout to set up a play for those last few ticks.

I think there is one important factor that has not been mentioned in these posts. After Caroline Ducharme's layup was made and the ball fell through the bottom of the net, Dorka grabbed the ball and made a gesture as if she wanted to hand it to someone (the refs? the DePaul inbounder?). That was a definite no-no, and Dorka could have been called for a delay-of-game foul which would have given DePaul two free throws to tie the game. Maybe if she had simply let the ball go and gotten back on defense, the refs would not have whistled a timeout. As it was, Dorka's move probably cost DePaul two or three tenths of a second that they could have used for the inbounds play. The officials may have called the timeout so that they could determine whether time should be put back on the clock to offset the time that Dorka held the ball.

I think that is a better thing for the refs to do than calling a technical foul on Dorka. UConn may have gotten off easy on that play. If DePaul had had someone open under the basket at the other end of the court (I have no idea whether they did or not), they could theoretically have grabbed the ball and fired a court-length pass to that person for a layup to tie the game. Dorka holding the ball took that opportunity away (if it ever existed), which is why the rules don't allow you to do what she did.

Rule 4, Section 17, Delay.
Art. 1. A delay is any action that impedes the progress or continuity of the game. Such actions include, but are not limited to:
...
f. Attempting to gain an advantage by interfering with the ball after a
goal or by failing to immediately pass the ball to the nearest official after a whistle is blown (See Rule 10-3.11 and 10-6.1.m);
Art. 2. One team warning shall be given for each of the delays in Rule 4-17.1.d through g. Each warning shall be reported to the official scorer. Thereafter, a technical foul shall be assessed for the delay that has previously received a team warning.

 

[hard2please]

yes so i think the refs erred in not signaling a warning to dorka at the time, whereupon they would have a stoppage in play and would automatically review the time remaining issue. however, if dorka never touched the ball, i believe the clock should have run out without stoppage by the refs... correct?

 

[CocoHusky]

yes so i think the refs erred in not signaling a warning to dorka at the time, whereupon they would have a stoppage in play and would automatically review the time remaining issue. however, if dorka never touched the ball, i believe the clock should have run out without stoppage by the refs... correct?

All correct except that I do believe Dorka was issued a warning, otherwise there was no need for the ref to stop the action and check the time on the clock. Warnings are typically not recorded in the box score and if you look at the replay in slow motion the mili second Dorka touches the ball coming out of the net, the refs raises his hands and signals the table to stop the clock.

 

[MSGRET]

All correct except that I do believe Dorka was issued a warning, otherwise there was no need for the ref to stop the action and check the time on the clock. Warnings are typically not recorded in the box score and if you look at the replay in slow motion the mili second Dorka touches the ball coming out of the net, the refs raises his hands and signals the table to stop the clock.

That might have been the ONLY call that the ref got correct all night.

 

[BobbyJ]

There has been a lot of discussion in several threads since the end of the DePaul game about the fact that the referees called an official timeout to check the clock setting after Caroline Ducharme scored the layup near the end of the game. People have generally argued that the refs should have simply let DePaul retrieve the ball and put it in play, rather than give them a free timeout to set up a play for those last few ticks.

I think there is one important factor that has not been mentioned in these posts. After Caroline Ducharme's layup was made and the ball fell through the bottom of the net, Dorka grabbed the ball and made a gesture as if she wanted to hand it to someone (the refs? the DePaul inbounder?). That was a definite no-no, and Dorka could have been called for a delay-of-game foul which would have given DePaul two free throws to tie the game. Maybe if she had simply let the ball go and gotten back on defense, the refs would not have whistled a timeout. As it was, Dorka's move probably cost DePaul two or three tenths of a second that they could have used for the inbounds play. The officials may have called the timeout so that they could determine whether time should be put back on the clock to offset the time that Dorka held the ball.

I think that is a better thing for the refs to do than calling a technical foul on Dorka. UConn may have gotten off easy on that play. If DePaul had had someone open under the basket at the other end of the court (I have no idea whether they did or not), they could theoretically have grabbed the ball and fired a court-length pass to that person for a layup to tie the game. Dorka holding the ball took that opportunity away (if it ever existed), which is why the rules don't allow you to do what she did.

Juhasz touching the ball made no difference. The TO was called over by the scorer's table and the official underneath raised his hands in response to that. Also the DePaul kid underneath made no real effort to grab the ball because she saw the TO being called also.

 

[stamfordhusky]

yes so i think the refs erred in not signaling a warning to dorka at the time, whereupon they would have a stoppage in play and would automatically review the time remaining issue. however, if dorka never touched the ball, i believe the clock should have run out without stoppage by the refs... correct?

Not correct. IF the refs think the clock may not have been stopped correctly, they are instructed to review it and change if necessary.

 

[01Neaggrad02]

Is this a for real discussion? In the last minute of the game the time stops when the ball goes through the hoop. How can you delay the game if the clock is stopped. Your own premise is that she was handing the ball to someone not holding onto it... if the ball goes through the hoop and she collects it to give it over how is that a delay of game. Someone's i wonder if people write things on here to feel important

 

[HuskylnSC]

@JoePgh , your statements are technically correct but it is a call that is never made. At least I have never seen this call made. I used to yell at the refs when John Thompson had his team make sure they took the ball after every made basket and then set it on the floor. This was to prevent the quick inbounds transition pass and enable G'town to set up their press.

If you look at the bench you can see Jamelle yelling at the ref, "Why is there time out." She may be the only person in the building who realized something irregular was going on. Alan Bestwick was also confused as to what was going in in his play-by-play.

 

[hoopsfan22]

Why does the clock have to stop in the last minute just because a basket was made?

 

[HuskylnSC]

Why does the clock have to stop in the last minute just because a basket was made?

It's the rule. I think it is designed to provide a more exciting ending to the game. No fan likes it when their team has 3 or 4 seconds to tie a game and the clock goes off before they can inbound the ball. It also would prevent the sentiment that is caused by the NFL rule that if the first team to get the ball in overtime scores they win.

 

[CocoHusky]

Is this a for real discussion? In the last minute of the game the time stops when the ball goes through the hoop. How can you delay the game if the clock is stopped. Your own premise is that she was handing the ball to someone not holding onto it... if the ball goes through the hoop and she collects it to give it over how is that a delay of game. Someone's i wonder if people write things on here to feel important

Yes this is a real discussion-thank you for participating. Sometimes I wonder if people read what others are contributing to the discussion before attacking.

Rule 4, Section 17, Delay.
Art. 1. A delay is any action that impedes the progress or continuity of the game. Such actions include, but are not limited to:
...
f. Attempting to gain an advantage by interfering with the ball after a
goal or by failing to immediately pass the ball to the nearest official after a whistle is blown (See Rule 10-3.11 and 10-6.1.m);
Art. 2. One team warning shall be given for each of the delays in Rule 4-17.1.d through g. Each warning shall be reported to the official scorer. Thereafter, a technical foul shall be assessed for the delay that has previously received a team warning.

 

[CocoHusky]

Why does the clock have to stop in the last minute just because a basket was made?

That's the rule: The game clock will be stopped after successful field goals in the last minute of the game and the last minute of any overtime period with no substitution allowed.

 

[BobbyJ]

Why does the clock have to stop in the last minute just because a basket was made?

Imagine 5 seconds to play as a made FG comes through the net, bounces off a shoulder and ricochets 15 feet out towards the foul line. By the time anybody including a ref can get to the ball and get it to the inbounder the game clock runs out. Rule is there to avoid something like that.

 

[Ozimoto]

Also the clock doesn't start until the ball is inbounded and touched by a player. That is why you sometimes see the ball rolled on the floor and it gets almost to half court before it is touched when the defending team doesn't contest the inbounds play.

 

[hard2please]

thank you all for clarifying this

 

[Bigboote]

Have y'all seen how many times in every game the refs stop play to see how many tenths of a second need to be added back to the clock? I would have been shocked if they DIDN'T go to the monitor.

 

[Centerstream]

Also the clock doesn't start until the ball is inbounded and touched by a player. That is why you sometimes see the ball rolled on the floor and it gets almost to half court before it is touched when the defending team doesn't contest the inbounds play.

And sometimes I wonder why a 5 second call is not made. As soon as the inbounder touches the ball, the count starts. I guess it takes less than 5 seconds to roll to almost half court.