A TN fan's perspective

[BigO]

just reading some of these posts and have to say...i am really bewildered at some of the comments about pat and the lady vols.

i mean this post with respect and not to be rude, but the lady is dealing with a terminal illness. could we at least try to avoid congratulatory posts when a top recruits changes her mind? i mean the basis of that change was a woman's illness and inability to coach. (and i am betting we will eventually hear more about what actually prompted the change as well) frankly, i personally want recruits who have the heart and courage to believe in the program and care enough to carry the torch forward.

as to TN's future....sure we are down for a second...and hate to break it to you but when Geno leaves you will fall off for a second as well. ladies go to UCONN to be coached by geno, not some new coach that may take over one day.

believe this though....TN has the money, the community, and the whole state behind Pat and the continued success of the lady vol program. we have the #1 recruiting class as freshman this year. we have a great class next year and things will work out when we name a good coach. we are not ODU. not LA tech, or Texas. not even close. we have real commitment from all parties in the state of tn.

all i can say is that i would never be "happy" about the decline of a program under these conditions. i think UCONN is good for basketball. i don't wish it harm. anyway, this isn't directed to all of you. but to those who find joy in the pain of an icon (that also paved the way for your program) stop and think about your actions.

 

[uconnbaseball]

Not sure where you got the idea that the majority of this board enjoys Tennessee twisting in the wind. I wish Tennessee the best of luck and have a ton of respect for Pat Summitt.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us and best of luck the rest of the year.

 

[BigO]

Not sure where you got the idea that the majority of this board enjoys Tennessee twisting in the wind. I wish Tennessee the best of luck and have a ton of respect for Pat Summitt.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us and best of luck the rest of the year.

i said "some" not majority but thanks for the nice post.

 

[uconnbaseball]

Ah, I see. Very well.

 

[speedoo]

Why is it that you Tennessee fans repeatedly toss around accusations without specifics? Why should we pay any attention to you when you don't cite a single example of posts here that trouble you?.

"some" does not cut it.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I have to say I have had a very high regard for the vast majority of the BY in their attitude and comments about Pat. I suspect that some Tennessee fans might find some of the analysis here a bit "cold", but it has certainly not been inappropriate.

In a few threads that have had less to do with Pat and more to do with the program's future, there has been a bit more joy that Tennessee might fade than a Tennessee fan might find appropriate, but there has also been discussions about the potential for UConn to slip after Geno, which threads you may not have seen because they weren't recent. Even if both programs re-establish themselves, there is sure to be a period that will include some slippage and a legitimate question whether it is starting at Tennessee already.

To the argument that Tennessee is not ODU or La Tech, that is true, assuming that SEC schools resume their committment to women's hoops. ODU and LaTech faded because they were in mid-major conferences, and as such failed to attract the best players and were unable - even with aggressive ooc schedules - to play a stiff enough competition to get a high enough seed to be competitive in the NCAA tourney.

 

[BigO]

Why is it that you Tennessee fans repeatedly toss around accusations without specifics? Why should we pay any attention to you when you don't cite a single example of posts here that trouble you?.

"some" does not cut it.

sorry that i don't get a pad of paper to document every rude comment to prove a point to you. i am sure you will survive.

 

[BigO]

I have to say I have had a very high regard for the vast majority of the BY in their attitude and comments about Pat. I suspect that some Tennessee fans might find some of the analysis here a bit "cold", but it has certainly not been inappropriate.

In a few threads that have had less to do with Pat and more to do with the program's future, there has been a bit more joy that Tennessee might fade than a Tennessee fan might find appropriate, but there has also been discussions about the potential for UConn to slip after Geno, which threads you may not have seen because they weren't recent. Even if both programs re-establish themselves, there is sure to be a period that will include some slippage and a legitimate question whether it is starting at Tennessee already.

To the argument that Tennessee is not ODU or La Tech, that is true, assuming that SEC schools resume their committment to women's hoops. ODU and LaTech faded because they were in mid-major conferences, and as such failed to attract the best players and were unable - even with aggressive ooc schedules - to play a stiff enough competition to get a high enough seed to be competitive in the NCAA tourney.

agreed. the SEC is really getting hot right now. the teams are rebounding from a weak season last year. and i think you hit the nail on the head...the analysis does appear "Cold" b/c we are dealing with a human who will likely pass away in a few years and be robbed of a normal life. pat is a person above all. that's my point. to those of us that have seen the effects of this disease in our family, it seems a little crude to be excited about a team that looks a coach everyday and wonders how long they will be alive now. just some food for thought.

 

[BigO]

Ah, I see. Very well.

 

[speedoo]

sorry that i don't get a pad of paper to document every rude comment to prove a point to you. i am sure you will survive.

You don't need a pad of paper. All you need to do is go to the posts that bother you, hit the REPLY button, and say what you want to say. Simple.. And far more effective in advancing your agenda than your generalized post that provides nothing worth discussing.

 

[BigO]

You don't need a pad of paper. All you need to do is go to the posts that bother you, hit the REPLY button, and say what you want to say. Simple.. And far more effective in advancing your agenda than your generalized post that provides nothing worth discussing.

uh...then stop commenting you are only proving the point....you sitting here acting like nothing has been said is a little absurd. and i could care a less if you approve of how i post on a message board. lol and don't worry i am not wasting another response on your posts. have a good one

 

[speedoo]

uh...then stop commenting you are only proving the point....you sitting here acting like nothing has been said is a little absurd. and i could care a less if you approve of how i post on a message board. lol and don't worry i am not wasting another response on your posts. have a good one

Actually it is YOU who is proving MY point.. Namely that you are unwilling or unable to provide specifics instead of useless generalities, so there is no point in paying any attention to you.

 

[msf22b]

I think that any nasty comments regarding any side of this issue are inappropriate, as many of my colleagues on this site attest through their polite and respectful posts.
For all the abuse she took from our fans, Pat is a legend and woman's BB would not be where it is now w/o her contribution. Everyone knows that and her resulting illness and the reaction of our fans has remarkably changed the tenor of our board with regard her (I was one of those who speculated that it can happen to us).

But when that day arrives; losses piling up and recruits deciding that they would rather go elsewhere, I hope and pray that the fans here will not go on a rampage, blaming the networks, revisiting sad, stale allegations of disrespect, suggesting that players transfer and insinuating unethical behavior from rival coaches.

The Pat and Geno rivalry was the focus of the season, the annual game put the sport on the map and produced some of its most memorable games. Its true that Geno hyped the rivalry with over the top comments; all to increase the exposure, in the manner of Ali. Sorry if it was interpreted otherwise.

When news of Pat's illness first surfaced, many of us begged the various authorities to immediately schedule a marquee game, Madison Sq. Garden was suggested, so that the true fans of Woman's BB, which includes the vast majority of Husky Nation, could pay their respects. The ovation, tributes, gifts and outpouring of love would have surpassed any possible expectation.

I am saddened by what is happening in Knoxville, but fascinated as a precautionary tale.
(Glad I was a little ill this morning so that I had a chance to submit this piece).
Godspeed and good luck.
MSF22b
Michael Feldman
NY, NY

 

[Icebear]

BigO,

I understand that your OP is an attempt share a perspective outside the usual here. But in doing so you have stumbled into a pit that lies at the heart of some of the conflict often experienced between the different fan groups. Geno, UConn, and even the Boneyard have been accused of actions without any facts or than she said he said. Saying "some" or people simply echoes those kinds of empty constructions and raises distrust and defensiveness, not without justification based on past experience. You may feel put on to justify who the "some" but not pointing to specifics will not be helpful. It is not your fault, it is just how it is.

Some of your assumptions about Pat and Alzheimer's should be cautioned against. Alzheimer's does not kill quickly. Even the progression of memory loss does not necessarily mark the onset of life threatening progression. I presently visit 90 year old friend who has had Alzheimer's for 15 years and has been in a nursing home for 8. Even now he has no immediate life threatening implications from this horrible illness. Sometimes things move quickly others much more irregularly and slowly, no guarantees.

You may, also, be asking fans of a program falsely accused by TN and many fans on The Sunmmitt of NCAA violations to be too rational in their responses to the current problems of the Lady Vols and "some" of their fans. Most here are capable of sorting out and separating the issues and wish Pat nothing but the best but, also, know the path is difficult, many by experience.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ctpaul0825]

agreed. the SEC is really getting hot right now. the teams are rebounding from a weak season last year. and i think you hit the nail on the head...the analysis does appear "Cold" b/c we are dealing with a human who will likely pass away in a few years and be robbed of a normal life. pat is a person above all. that's my point. to those of us that have seen the effects of this disease in our family, it seems a little crude to be excited about a team that looks a coach everyday and wonders how long they will be alive now. just some food for thought.

First and foremost I feel your pain, our coaches and players become like family to us all, when something happens to them it hurts as much as if the were our mom, dad, wife, husband, child or friend.

Second, please educate yourself on the disease, the more you know about it the more you will be able to understand and handle it's progression. Pat more than likely will not die in a few years, based on her overall health she can live another 40 years, while my mother-in-law suffered with the disease for years she just passed at the age of 92.

Third, I've been to the checker board and read horrible posts about UCONN coaches, players and fans all the time. Even worse I've read horrible posts about the Vols coaches, players and fellow fans. If you really care about the program, Pat and the team my suggestion to you is to stay away from the Internet until things settle down.

Best of luck to all Vols !

 

[HuskyNan]

just reading some of these posts and have to say...i am really bewildered at some of the comments about pat and the lady vols.

i mean this post with respect and not to be rude, but the lady is dealing with a terminal illness. could we at least try to avoid congratulatory posts when a top recruits changes her mind? i mean the basis of that change was a woman's illness and inability to coach. (and i am betting we will eventually hear more about what actually prompted the change as well) frankly, i personally want recruits who have the heart and courage to believe in the program and care enough to carry the torch forward.

as to TN's future....sure we are down for a second...and hate to break it to you but when Geno leaves you will fall off for a second as well. ladies go to UCONN to be coached by geno, not some new coach that may take over one day.

all i can say is that i would never be "happy" about the decline of a program under these conditions. i think UCONN is good for basketball. i don't wish it harm. anyway, this isn't directed to all of you. but to those who find joy in the pain of an icon (that also paved the way for your program) stop and think about your actions.

BigO, given the number of issues that exist between our two fan bases, I am unable to address everything in this post so I'll try to boil it down as much as possible.

1. Yes, there have been some really inappropriate comments made here and I have deleted probably 7-8 posts that I thought were over the top. Unfortunately, some posts were up for a while before I got to them. Boneyarders that deny their existence may not have seen them. Other posts that are still up that I consider marginal I will leave until I can see which way the conversation follows. I lock the threads if they start going down the wrong path.

2. Having acknowledged the Boneyard's part in continuing the feud between our fan bases, I will say that UConn-Tenn continues to be a rivalry, right up there with the Red Sox-Yankees or Patriots-Giants in this part of the country. We don't dislike the other team; we "hate" it. This isn't the kind of hate reserved for child molesters or terrorists but a healthy dislike (and I use the word healthy to differentiate sports hate from the less rational kind) that gives fans a strong rooting interest and makes for enthusiastic crowds. Fans of the other team aren't going to like the comments that come from a healthy dislike any more than they do the unhealthy type but, well, that's what being a sports fan is all about.

As a board admin, my job is to keep the healthy dislike in the forefront and turn back the less wholesome kind. I admit to not always being successful but I do try. Anyone who thinks a post has gone too far is encouraged to click on the Report button at the bottom of the post. It will flag the post for a moderator's attention. Or you can PM JS, Biff or me and ask us to review the post.

 

[Sacre Bleu]

I am sorry BigO, but Pat dragged Geno's name through the mud with allegations of cheating in recruiting. I will never forget how despicable her actions and/or lack of actions in smearing him were during that period. Truly low. Furthermore, I hope we never play Tennessee again in part because the administration of Tennessee allowed her actions to stand. I find the situation that Tennessee finds itself in now fascinating... and am watching with interest (and sympathy, of course, for a tragic situation) how the situation will develop, how Tennessee will resolve its predicament.

 

[Sonny44]

Let's move on please.

 

[alexrgct]

just reading some of these posts and have to say...i am really bewildered at some of the comments about pat and the lady vols.

i mean this post with respect and not to be rude, but the lady is dealing with a terminal illness. could we at least try to avoid congratulatory posts when a top recruits changes her mind? i mean the basis of that change was a woman's illness and inability to coach. (and i am betting we will eventually hear more about what actually prompted the change as well) frankly, i personally want recruits who have the heart and courage to believe in the program and care enough to carry the torch forward.

There may have been some posts like that, but for the most part, the discussion surrounded the extent to which KD's change of heart was representative of the changing recruiting landscape for the LVs in light of the current and unfortunate situation at Tennessee, as well as the extent to which it necessitates the need for Tennessee to proceed with announcing/enacting a succession plan sooner rather than later. I doubt that's what you took issue with, but that's the topic of greatest interest to UConn fans.

as to TN's future....sure we are down for a second...and hate to break it to you but when Geno leaves you will fall off for a second as well. ladies go to UCONN to be coached by geno, not some new coach that may take over one day.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Geno Auriemma is a treasure, and it will be a dark day when he retires. And one of the reasons I personally am very interested in whats happening at Tennessee is that I think it will be instructive for UConn. Both Tennessee and UConn are/will be in a position to make what seems to be a very good hire on the face of it, but nothing is assured. Pat and Geno are unique animals. The inclination on a lot of fans' parts (both fan bases) to keep it in the family (Kellie Jolly Harper, Nikki Caldwell, Jen Rizzotti, Shea Ralph, etc.), though understandable, is very limiting and risky. You have to be a bit lucky in making a hire.

believe this though....TN has the money, the community, and the whole state behind Pat and the continued success of the lady vol program. we have the #1 recruiting class as freshman this year. we have a great class next year and things will work out when we name a good coach. we are not ODU. not LA tech, or Texas. not even close. we have real commitment from all parties in the state of tn.

Kind of interesting that you mentioned those three schools because Texas is not like the others. Texas has an obscene amount of money, and the fan base would come back if the team wasn't hopeless. Now, Tennessee and Texas have differences. Jody stayed on 15 years too long, and Pat won't. But Texas made what seemed like a slam dunk hire, and five years into the Gail Goestenkors era, it hasn't worked out. So I think that's a cautionary tale for both UConn and Tennessee. You can make what seems like a great hire that doesn't end up being one. And what further damage is done to your program in the process?

all i can say is that i would never be "happy" about the decline of a program under these conditions. i think UCONN is good for basketball. i don't wish it harm. anyway, this isn't directed to all of you. but to those who find joy in the pain of an icon (that also paved the way for your program) stop and think about your actions.

I'm not happy at all, personally. This isn't the way Pat deserved to go out, if this indeed ends up being her last year. Losing to teams like South Carolina and Virginia, not even putting up a fight against Notre Dame...that's not what Pat Summitt-coached teams look like. It'd be cool if the team could get healthy and gel right before the tourney and make one last run, but right now, I'm not seeing it. What's weird is that everything looks rotten. I don't see leadership, belief, competent offense or defense, or even good strength and conditioning. I didnt expect this.

See comments in-line. One other question I had for you. Not that you're necessarily representative of all LV fans, but I'd appreciate your thoughts:

There seems to be some sentiment amongst the LV fanbase that ESPN and other networks are exaggerating how disengaged Pat is during games with the shots of her they show their audience. I don't understand this at all. Why would any LV fan want to put this season at all on Pat? Like I said, from my point of view, everything is way off. How is it a better narrative to say Pat is still firmly engaged but that things are this awry? Now, if the LVs do turn it around this season, I could see wanting to include Pat in the narrative, but if they don't, I'd suggest the better narrative for her legacy was that she wasn't able to be really involved. Just my perspective.

 

[RadyLady]

I am sorry BigO, but Pat dragged Geno's name through the mud with allegations of cheating in recruiting.

I am thinking here that this could be evidence of early onset of the disease. Once I heard the annoucement of her condition, I harkened back to these incidents which sudden;y made sense to me, at least the behavior.

 

[UcMiami]

BigO - thanks for posting your thoughts on this board. I have posted a number of times in threads regarding this situation and while I have tried to be respectful, you may have objected to some of them? I have not seen any posts in the threads that I found really objectionable, but I am also not emotional invested in TN and the LVs. If I were, I can see that cool, rational discussion of a disease, and of the whole situation surrounding TN would be difficult to read. And the most 'offensive' posts that I have read are directed specifically at the Summitt board and their reactions and not at either Pat or the general situation with the LV program.
What I personally found surprising in my visit to the Summitt were:
1. A general lack of any understanding about the disease and the course it follows - this may just be head in the sand wishful thinking?
2. A belief in some grand conspiracies against TN.
3. Some pretty nasty comments about specific players, the senior class, and the assistant coaches.
Specific to the Davis situation - I think for a player (and her family) who has visited TN so often and has such a connection to the LVs to be swayed by anything any other coach said to her is hard to believe. Top players and their families are very wired in to what is going on with the teams they are interested in - I think it is an insult to Davis and her family, to suggest that their decision was anything more than a rational look at what is clearly happening this year at TN. We have all had discussions about what many people believe is an LOI that is tilted toward the University and not the player. To ask anyone to sign a restrictive 4 year contract, when the contract is tied to a situation that is in some confusion is tough. For a top player to say ... wait a minute, can you try to clarify what I am signing on to before I sign ... is completely rational. And to also say ... I think I should look at my other options as well ... is also rational.

 

[NCorBust]

Not sure where you got the idea that the majority of this board enjoys Tennessee twisting in the wind.

Actually I am not sure where you get the idea the LV poster said majority or even implied it. "just reading some of these posts and have to say..." Guilty conscience?

 

[NCorBust]

I am sorry BigO, but Pat dragged Geno's name through the mud with allegations of cheating in recruiting. I will never forget how despicable her actions and/or lack of actions in smearing him were during that period. Truly low. Furthermore, I hope we never play Tennessee again in part because the administration of Tennessee allowed her actions to stand. I find the situation that Tennessee finds itself in now fascinating... and am watching with interest (and sympathy, of course, for a tragic situation) how the situation will develop, how Tennessee will resolve its predicament.

And you cannot now be charitable enough to think perhaps her illness may have played a part in her statements?

 

[uconnbaseball]

Actually I am not sure where you get the idea the LV poster said majority or even implied it. "just reading some of these posts and have to say..." Guilty conscience?

It was late, and I should have been in bed.

 

[BigO]

i get what most of you are saying, but i do think the media is obsessed with the negative side of pat's issue, instead of saying...wait this woman is in the fight for her life and is STILL at every practice, every game, and has a top 10 team who may finish 1st or 2nd in a tough conference this year. she does every post game interview. she answers numerous face book questions after each game. but she has been instructed by doctors to slow down when on sidelines as the stress makes the disease progress faster. i don't think you all can see the difference on how ESPN covers the games, because you don't have the other TV channels in the South. when the LVs are not on ESPN the channels actually show pat engaged and talking to players, etc. when we are on ESPN, she is only shown gazing into space. my grandmother has this awful disease, as i am sure that many of your family members have had too. i know many of you are resistant to believe that ESPN is covering this in a bad way, but you don't see the other 80% of LV basketball as we do. that's why we all blow up when ESPN does its thing. (which hurts the perception of pat, the fans, and the program)

trust me when i say that if the were handling Geno like this you all would go NUTS