A shift in the WNBA season? Show me the money

[SVCBeercats]

A shift in the WNBA season? Show me the money

I don't get it? Why were people up in arms about Title 9? They don't support it? It isn't free. It costs colleges money. People got what they wanted but don't support the women's college teams. Certainly they don't support the WNBA. Hey, if you shift to the fall and winter, then you have to pay the players more. So go to the games so the teams have the money to pay the players. I guess they want the men to under write the WNBA forever. Man if a NCAA sport is played by men or women does not make enough money or can no longer be justified for marketing and donation reasons, then the sport should be converted to an intramural sport. I know the only sport to support itself may be football and some men's basketball programs. Where are people who stumped for Title 9? Older men primarily support the WNBA.

 

[willtalk]

You are right on the money. Someone on another site suggested that some rich women in the entertainment industry buy the NY team when it was up for sale and in danger of folding. These celebrities seem to only be good for talk and little action when it comes to promoting womens issues. Supporting the WNBA would be just chump change to them. Given the right backing with time the WNBA could find a market with the younger generation. Womens basketball is growing but it is not there yet. It just requires some more time and financial support is necessary to buy them that time. It just seems that the loadest talkers do only that talk.

As I stated in a post on a previous thread, the market value for womens basketball is low so it has very little leverage. It is important that the few fans of the sport recognize reality. In order to promote any agenda one needs an objective perspective to find starting point. Pointing out reality does not mean one is against it. We always have to know where we are in order to get to the place we want to end up.

 

[eebmg]

I saw the interview in real time from Silver. Very disappointing. He seems to think it is a zero sum game. I definitely understand the challenges. I come from a family in which not one member wants anything to do with WBB (college or pro)




However, it does seem that their is some positive news. For example, based on this article,

WNBA Scores Highest Attendance In Six Years During Record-Breaking Season - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

there was an upsurge in attendance in multiple markets, increased social media activity, merchandise, FanDuel etc.

Potentially, more interest from the NCAA final four buzz etc.

But then, along comes a creep like James Dolan who throws the Liberty out of MSG and exiles them to Westchester. Good luck getting up there without a car which describes the majority of NYC denizens. Not content to ruin men's basketball, he screws up a good franchise which draws almost 10,000 just for some potential short term savings (I guess)

Restricting Attendance In The WNBA: Short-Run Wise, Long-Run Foolish?

(By the way, A very good article that puts the challenges of the WNBA in good perspective)


Same for the Washington Mystics.

Not a word of protest by Silver. Growth requires investment and time and it seems that Silver does not want to get his hands dirty.


Basically smothering the newborn in the crib.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Growth requires investment and time and it seems that Silver does not want to get his hands dirty. Basically smothering the newborn in the crib.

The baby is 22 years old and still can't walk on it own. I'm sure there were many women pushing for Title 9 but now that it is a reality they disconnected and don't support it with their attendance. If the WNBA can't support itself in 5 years, terminate it and Title 9 as wastes of money that could be better used else where - like education. Same with men's sports which live off of football. Nothing wrong with a nice intramural sports program especially relative to cost.

 

[CocoHusky]

A shift in the WNBA season? Show me the money

I don't get it? Why were people up in arms about Title 9? They don't support it? It isn't free. It costs colleges money. People got what they wanted but don't support the women's college teams. Certainly they don't support the WNBA. Hey, if you shift to the fall and winter, then you have to pay the players more. So go to the games so the teams have the money to pay the players. I guess they want the men to under write the WNBA forever. Man if a NCAA sport is played by men or women does not make enough money or can no longer be justified for marketing and donation reasons, then the sport should be converted to an intramural sport. I know the only sport to support itself may be football and some men's basketball programs. Where are people who stumped for Title 9? Older men primarily support the WNBA.

What does Title IX have to do with this?

 

[wallman]

Yeah, I was confused also. If colleges stopped offering scholarships for sports, wouldn't the model be the same as those in Europe and wouldn't the numbers of those going to college reduce significantly?

 

[SVCBeercats]

Yeah, I was confused also. If colleges stopped offering scholarships for sports, wouldn't the model be the same as those in Europe and wouldn't the numbers of those going to college reduce significantly?

So?

 

[SVCBeercats]

What does Title IX have to do with this?

I was on a role of women not supporting what they clamor for.

 

[wallman]

So?

Not sure of your response as I was just asking a general question.

 

[calpedaler]

The baby is 22 years old and still can't walk on it own. I'm sure there were many women pushing for Title 9 but now that it is a reality they disconnected and don't support it with their attendance. If the WNBA can't support itself in 5 years, terminate it and Title 9 as wastes of money that could be better used else where - like education. Same with men's sports which live off of football. Nothing wrong with a nice intramural sports program especially relative to cost.

"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

 

[the Q]

"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

Let the teams be co-ed. One team. Both sexes. Let the 13 best players get scholarships.

Frankly, men are discriminated against with Title IX when school drops their sports program, solely because it's a men's team.

With the budget problems that occur, it's probably inevitable that non-revenue generating sports are going to start getting axed.

 

[DefenseBB]

Wow, is this thread a bit all over the place! There have been some great points though and I will inject my perspective:
1. The WNBA is 22 years old so while the attendance increase is encouraging, the fact is the salary cap is there because the league loses money and wants to cap it.
2. The league has hit a somewhat stabilized number of franchises at 12. This is still rather underwhelming in the big scheme of things if a league really is trying to be in the consciousness of the public.
3. I am not a Dolan fan at all but if he can make more money by renting his arena that holds 19,000+ to other entities, he will. I was hoping that maybe he would let the team go to a bigger venue like Bridgeport's Webster that holds 10,000 and would gather the large legion of UConn faithful potentially but alas he kept them in 5,000 Westchester. His prerogative. FYI, he did try to sell the team and no buyers emerged (sort of telling in itself).
4. The reason the WNBA went to the summer model was 3 fold as I recall-
a. They could get television coverage from ESPN, where as in the fall they would have to compete with College and Pro Football, NBA, NHL, MLB playoffs and WCBB and MCB.
b. By being in the summer time, the league would have access to the NBA venues which are more available as the other sports listed above are in the off-season and the league would only have to compete with the end of the NBA/NHL playoffs and Baseball.
c. As noted in the article, the top 50% of the players will go overseas to compete in less talented leagues but whose ownership pays up to field competitive teams as a money losing proposition. By being in the summer, the league could attract the players to try and build the league up and eventually move to compete with the other leagues in the winter time.

My take is Silver sees that the league has maxed out with the summer season, still isn't making money as initially thought when it first was assessed as here we are 22 years in and some owners want out. I guess he is postulating that moving to the fall/winter season would put it back into the traditional seasons and maybe keep or grow the attendance as the group of people watching might be different than the other sports.

The league is making some profit in it's current format (or only losing minimal money) do you risk the league folding by going to the fall format and losing the top talent and a TV and public following? Maybe that is what some of his owners are pushing for. Also note that the NBA franchises are opening up the arenas to the Video Game arena where "gaming money" is VERY, VERY real and vastly more than what the WNBA can make for the owners and is a growing sector.

Women's sports in general have struggled mightily in the pro ranks except for Grand Slam Tennis. The LPGA is quasi surviving and women's soccer failed. Softball tried and exists but at a very limited level for pro's. Women's Hockey is giving it a go and so far that has been mixed. I had always thought if any sport after Tennis would succeed it would be basketball but the general public seems to only care about "periodic event success" like in the Olympics (see Swimming, Gymnastics, Figure Skating) or World Cup events (see FIFA Soccer or FIBA basketball).

The final note I have to hammer Katie Barnes, the author on is her comment to have the league "pony up" money. Nice to say when it's not your money and the owners are frustrated after 22 years of not making a profit. I view that comment as extremely myopic for someone who should know the issues.

 

[the Q]

I'm torn.

On the one hand, maybe the WNBA is maxed out in the summer. But it has very little competition compared to the winter. And you'd make players have to choose between the WNBA and actually making a real wage for their skills.

On the other hand, maybe this is Silver's backdoor way to just let the league die, because I can't imagine it does better in the winter than it does now.

 

[JellyBean]

Well a shift in the season is not the answer. I believe The Commish is serious about wanting the WNBA to reach that 21-34 female market. However, as a coach of girls basketball, not many girls watch basketball. Heck I got girls that don't even watch the NBA! I would say out of our 20 member roster (Varsity and JV) we have 3 girls that watch WNBA games. The problem that I see is not about the marketing it is about loving the sport of basketball. Plus having a winning team. Here in Minnesota, when the Lynx had that dry spell of not making the playoffs, attendance was horrible!! Some nights the Target Center probably had a good thousand in the seats. There was talk of having the team play games over at Williams area because of the low turnout. Now that we are winning. The Target Center is 80%-90% full. We have a pretty wide age range of fans in attendance. Winning helps. But for me, as a fan of the women's game, I attend games no matter what.

 

[nickp91]

Lindsay Whalen is literally coaching a team in the fall and playing during the summer!

 

[Shades]

Lindsay Whalen is literally coaching a team in the fall and playing during the summer!

I don't approve, but I'll feel differently if she can land Paige Bueckers.

 

[Longtime fan]

I saw the interview in real time from Silver. Very disappointing. He seems to think it is a zero sum game. I definitely understand the challenges. I come from a family in which not one member wants anything to do with WBB (college or pro)




However, it does seem that their is some positive news. For example, based on this article,

WNBA Scores Highest Attendance In Six Years During Record-Breaking Season - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

there was an upsurge in attendance in multiple markets, increased social media activity, merchandise, FanDuel etc.

Potentially, more interest from the NCAA final four buzz etc.

But then, along comes a creep like James Dolan who throws the Liberty out of MSG and exiles them to Westchester. Good luck getting up there without a car which describes the majority of NYC denizens. Not content to ruin men's basketball, he screws up a good franchise which draws almost 10,000 just for some potential short term savings (I guess)

Restricting Attendance In The WNBA: Short-Run Wise, Long-Run Foolish?

(By the way, A very good article that puts the challenges of the WNBA in good perspective)


Same for the Washington Mystics.

Not a word of protest by Silver. Growth requires investment and time and it seems that Silver does not want to get his hands dirty.


Basically smothering the newborn in the crib.

James Dolan is a pariah in NYC and known as the dumbest sports franchise owner in history, bar none. The Knicks are his showcase for failure and stupidity. His legacy shows that inheritance of wealth should be prohibited. If he had to make a career on his own, he would fail at collecting and redeeming soda cans. James Dolan is proof that there is no god.

 

[SVCBeercats]

"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

And who clamored for this to become law? Oh! The same people who now don't provide support with their money and presence. Hypocrites!

 

[SVCBeercats]

Frankly, men are discriminated against with Title IX when school drops their sports program, solely because it's a men's team.

This true. My undergraduate college has a women's bowling team because they get money to have it. But they don't have a men's bowling team because there are no funds for a men's bowling team. BTW, I challenged the women's team to a bowling match. If they could beat this 72 year old man, I would pony up $$$$ for the team. They laughed and accepted. Oops! No laughter when the old man rolled a 743 series. OK! OK! Full disclosure. I handicapped the match. They bowled on lanes with a "professional experience" oil pattern. I bowled on lanes with a "house pattern" which promotes higher scoring. Hey, there was at least a 50 years age difference! However, I did allow all 9 team members to compete against me. So if anyone of them beat me it was their victory. We had fun ... yeahhhh, I had more fun. I still ponied up the money.