3 on 5

[CTBballfan243]

Offensively UCONN was basically playing 3 on 5. Ferris and Doty, when on the Court can't score. ND didn't even have to guard them because they just aren't scoring threats, where as Uconn needed to guard all five of ND's players. Also, Ferris and Doty struggled to guard their players tonight. Bad matchups. ND was just quicker. Unfortunately, against the top teams their lack of speed gets exposed. That situation will get fixed, but It will have to wait until next years freshmen class comes in.

 

[Kevin G]

As hard as it may be to say this, you have a good point. I am really rooting for Doty to get into some offensive flow. She is not willing to shoot and when she has an opportunity for a fast break she pulls it behind the arc. I understand her fear to drive. It's a tough situation. We all know Faris isn't an offensive player so I dont expect that from here. But, I do expect her to score in her own way i.e. offensive rebound, slashing to the hoop.

 

[tomcat]

Faris is a wonderful player, but it seems to me that her slashing ability is saved primarily for weaker teams. Against a team like ND, it's nowhere to be found and tnight, again, her passing became a liability. Caroline looks tentative offensively when she gets the ball. UConn has the potential to be a better team with KML in the lineup, especially if she can get some inside looks, as she did once tonight against McBride.

 

[Icebear]

I just watched the entire game focussing on Faris and Caroline and that we were played 3 on 5. Sorry, but that was not true. ND honored every shooter on the court. Their defense sagged as the zone they were in was designed to do, most are. It is one of the reasons you use a zone. Virtually every time Doty or Faris had the ball they were honored as a threat. The zone did not sag off them when they did have the ball. The only liability they presented was their own hesitancy to shot. We fed the hot hands in Dolson and Tiff and Bria took 4. Who were you going to take shots from to give them to Caroline or Kelly or KML who only took 2 because of her limited minutes. Stef was open specifically, because they didn't double team her and they honored both Caroline on the outside.

In the second half half the issue wasn't 3 on 5 because with KML available and scoring 10 points Caroline only played 6 minutes. So in the second half the worst case scenario it was 4-5. What happened in the second half was that ND adjusted their defense on Tiff and shut her down. Tiff who had the hot hand in the first half was 1 for 2 in the second. Two shots the whole half for Tiff. The kid who scored 18 points in the first half took 2 shots in the second half. KML taking those shots and going 4-6 and scoring 10 points. The question should be why and how did ND do this to Tiff and what options did we have to counter.

KML was one option and did respond. Stef still had 8 shots but only made 3, Bria had 5 shots and made 1. Problem was we had 10 TOs in the second half to go with our 8 in the first. We gave up 23 points on TOs because they were the worst type of turnovers ones leading to transition. We never created shots for anyone with those errors, not Tiff, not Stef, not KML, nor Kelly, nor CD. Plus we gave up 25 second chance points. Plus we gave up 15 points at the foul line. Those didn't happen because of Kelly or CD in the first half or not being honored on offense.

The game wasn't lost because we played 3 on 5 or 4 on 5. That is simply myth making.

 

[meyers7]

Problem was we had 10 TOs in the second half to go with our 8 in the first. We gave up 23 points on TOs because they were the worst type of turnovers ones leading to transition.....Plus we gave up 25 second chance points.

Yep that was it right there. Not only too many turnovers, but turnover were we pretty much handed them the ball to go down to the other end and score. That and as you said too many 2nd chance points.

 

[Olde Coach]

Yep that was it right there. Not only too many turnovers, but turnover were we pretty much handed them the ball to go down to the other end and score. That and as you said too many 2nd chance points.

Good analysis, Ice. Thanks for doing the "homework."

 

[meyers7]

Good analysis, Ice. Thanks for doing the "homework."

Thanks. I had the same analysis, just hadn't posted it yet. Ice and I do occasionally use the same brain.

 

[Icebear]

Thanks. I had the same analysis, just hadn't posted it yet. Ice and I do occasionally use the same brain.

More than we used to, I think I've mellowed. LoL.

 

[Pete]

KLM moving inside to post up in the second half is what shut Tiff down. I understand why Geno did that to get her going, but it clogged up the lane and made it hard for Tiff. In the first half Stef would set a high screen and Tiff was able to get to the basket, KML in there posting changed that.

 

[Pete]

It is a bummer they lost but the real prize is still out there. I still think they are capable of winning it all. I also think Geno thinks so too, if not he wouldn't be so hard on them.

 

[Kait14]

I just watched the entire game focussing on Faris and Caroline and that we were played 3 on 5. Sorry, but that was not true. ND honored every shooter on the court. Their defense sagged as the zone they were in was designed to do, most are. It is one of the reasons you use a zone. Virtually every time Doty or Faris had the ball they were honored as a threat. The zone did not sag off them when they did have the ball. The only liability they presented was their own hesitancy to shot. We fed the hot hands in Dolson and Tiff and Bria took 4. Who were you going to take shots from to give them to Caroline or Kelly or KML who only took 2 because of her limited minutes. Stef was open specifically, because they didn't double team her and they honored both Caroline on the outside.

In the second half half the issue wasn't 3 on 5 because with KML available and scoring 10 points Caroline only played 6 minutes. So in the second half the worst case scenario it was 4-5. What happened in the second half was that ND adjusted their defense on Tiff and shut her down. Tiff who had the hot hand in the first half was 1 for 2 in the second. Two shots the whole half for Tiff. The kid who scored 18 points in the first half took 2 shots in the second half. KML taking those shots and going 4-6 and scoring 10 points. The question should be why and how did ND do this to Tiff and what options did we have to counter.

KML was one option and did respond. Stef still had 8 shots but only made 3, Bria had 5 shots and made 1. Problem was we had 10 TOs in the second half to go with our 8 in the first. We gave up 23 points on TOs because they were the worst type of turnovers ones leading to transition. We never created shots for anyone with those errors, not Tiff, not Stef, not KML, nor Kelly, nor CD. Plus we gave up 25 second chance points. Plus we gave up 15 points at the foul line. Those didn't happen because of Kelly or CD in the first half or not being honored on offense.

The game wasn't lost because we played 3 on 5 or 4 on 5. That is simply myth making.

Great, great analysis Ice.. As I was watching, I was VERY surprised that Diggins (who I think is their best defender) was covering Caroline whenever she was on the floor.. Face-guarding even

 

[Icebear]

KLM moving inside to post up in the second half is what shut Tiff down. I understand why Geno did that to get her going, but it clogged up the lane and made it hard for Tiff. In the first half Stef would set a high screen and Tiff was able to get to the basket, KML in there posting changed that.

I think that was part of it but ND, also, put Mallory on Tiff in the second half.

 

[Icebear]

Great, great analysis Ice.. As I was watching, I was VERY surprised that Diggins (who I think is their best defender) was covering Caroline whenever she was on the floor.. Face-guarding even

Hope you didn't think I was too hard on you last night but you have a good basketball mind and I wanted you to look beyond the obvious and think about the reasons and the options and any possible solutions. Most people can see the obvious but never try to go beyond it. It is great having you back here.

 

[UConnCat]

I think that was part of it but ND, also, put Mallory on Tiff in the second half.

Mallory is ND's best on-ball defender. Diggins has quick hands and gets a lot of steals, but she's not the shut-down defender that Mallory is.

 

[Icebear]

Mallory is ND's best on-ball defender. Diggins has quick hands and gets a lot of steals, but she's not the shut-down defender that Mallory is.

Yes, she is ND's Kelly Faris.

 

[Kait14]

Hope you didn't think I was too hard on you last night but you have a good basketball mind and I wanted you to look beyond the obvious and think about the reasons and the options and any possible solutions. Most people can see the obvious but never try to go beyond it. It is great having you back here.

Not at all Ice.. You know, even though I've matured and have become less attached to UConn than I was 10 years ago (which means I'm still in part a little obsessed hahaha, it was just too ridiculous when I was a teenager) I still get a little too fired up after close games/losses. Thanks for keeping me in check =)

 

[Georgestarr7]

I just watched the entire game focussing on Faris and Caroline and that we were played 3 on 5. Sorry, but that was not true. ND honored every shooter on the court. Their defense sagged as the zone they were in was designed to do, most are. It is one of the reasons you use a zone. Virtually every time Doty or Faris had the ball they were honored as a threat. The zone did not sag off them when they did have the ball. The only liability they presented was their own hesitancy to shot. We fed the hot hands in Dolson and Tiff and Bria took 4. Who were you going to take shots from to give them to Caroline or Kelly or KML who only took 2 because of her limited minutes. Stef was open specifically, because they didn't double team her and they honored both Caroline on the outside.

In the second half half the issue wasn't 3 on 5 because with KML available and scoring 10 points Caroline only played 6 minutes. So in the second half the worst case scenario it was 4-5. What happened in the second half was that ND adjusted their defense on Tiff and shut her down. Tiff who had the hot hand in the first half was 1 for 2 in the second. Two shots the whole half for Tiff. The kid who scored 18 points in the first half took 2 shots in the second half. KML taking those shots and going 4-6 and scoring 10 points. The question should be why and how did ND do this to Tiff and what options did we have to counter.

KML was one option and did respond. Stef still had 8 shots but only made 3, Bria had 5 shots and made 1. Problem was we had 10 TOs in the second half to go with our 8 in the first. We gave up 23 points on TOs because they were the worst type of turnovers ones leading to transition. We never created shots for anyone with those errors, not Tiff, not Stef, not KML, nor Kelly, nor CD. Plus we gave up 25 second chance points. Plus we gave up 15 points at the foul line. Those didn't happen because of Kelly or CD in the first half or not being honored on offense.

The game wasn't lost because we played 3 on 5 or 4 on 5. That is simply myth making.

I agree with you, Ice, that ND was not playing us 3 on 5. I was at the game and just watched the second half at home. ND played great all around, but, I feel, the game could have been had by us. After the first 10 minutes we lost our edge and became tentative. I've never bewen to a UConn game and heard around me the calls to "shoot" almost like a chant. Everyone seemed to be passing up shots, even KML at times. And at the same time we gave them several wide open looks.

 

[snowkot]

Sorry, but that was not true. ND honored every shooter on the court. Their defense sagged as the zone they were in was designed to do, most are.

Respectfully disagree there.

Yes they were in a zone, and yes they sagged. But - to my sensibility- they were never made to honor her shot. They didn't pop out on her, and her defender was able to be very aggressive at dropping into the lane for double teams, etc...

Technically you're right I guess, but in the spirit of their defense and their schemes, I disagree. It was basically 4 on 5 for most of the second half.

As for it not being THE reason for the loss - agree you there. No shortage of contributing factors, of which that, to me, was only one.

But to me asking the kid to play the 4 for 35 minutes against a taller, aggressive rebounding, ball pressure team is a very tall order.

 

[Kait14]

Respectfully disagree there.

Yes they were in a zone, and yes they sagged. But - to my sensibility- they were never made to honor her shot. They didn't pop out on her, and her defender was able to be very aggressive at dropping into the lane for double teams, etc...

Technically you're right I guess, but in the spirit of their defense and their schemes, I disagree. It was basically 4 on 5 for most of the second half.

As for it not being THE reason for the loss - agree you there. No shortage of contributing factors, of which that, to me, was only one.

But to me asking the kid to play the 4 for 35 minutes against a taller, aggressive rebounding, ball pressure team is a very tall order.

They only played zone for, maybe 10 minutes at MOST.. everything else was man, and face guarding Caroline and Bria

 

[Icebear]

Respectfully disagree there.

Yes they were in a zone, and yes they sagged. But - to my sensibility- they were never made to honor her shot. They didn't pop out on her, and her defender was able to be very aggressive at dropping into the lane for double teams, etc....

Sorry, they covered Kelly the whole game and they more than most had reason to do that because she killed them when they tried that before. I trust my eyes.

 

[Icebear]

They only played zone for, maybe 10 minutes at MOST.. everything else was man, and face guarding Caroline and Bria

Many people confuse a sagging man to man for a zone.

 

[Kait14]

Many people confuse a sagging man to man for a zone.

Yep.. as soon as you see a cutter followed all the way to her spot, you know it's man.. and that is what happened, 90% of the time last night

 

[Icebear]

Yep.. as soon as you see a cutter followed all the way to her spot, you know it's man.. and that is what happened, 90% of the time last night

Exactly. Syracuse's Match up Zone can cause similar confusion.

 

[snowkot]

To clarify - I wasn't addressing or implying anything about the amount of time ND spent in zone or man.

My post was simply a response to ICE's about the nature of ND's zone defense, when they were actually in a zone defense.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I haven't had the chance to watch the game yet but I looked at the box score and the first thing that popped out was Faris and Doty 0 for 3. No wonder they lost, they played 3 on 5!

Then I looked a little closer. The real story isn't Faris/Doty offense (or lack of) it was all about the turnovers and rebounding. Faris and Doty didn't cost UConn the game but I think Peters and Novosel may have won it for ND. More possessions for ND translates into more shots which equals more points. ND took 12 more shots than UConn. That's real close to the margin of victory.