Zones - Glen Miller's Fools Gold

[Onions]

With CougarRed and others of our own, this is a really ridiculous thread. I mean to think that team could play 40 minutes of man and stay out of foul trouble is really lame. The best chance we had was to play zone and then hope the 2 guards who can't play the point could run the offense. We were severely undermanned, will be all season - quit bitching.

Not only were we playing Zone to keep out of foul trouble, we were also doing it because we had players going for all 40 minutes and zone takes less energy to play. On top of that we have a couple of players out there, namely Jackson and Enoch, who can't guard a light post and the zone helps cover that. We did not lose because of our D, bad as it was, we lost because we scored 12 points in the first half.

 

[mauconnfan]

Not only were we playing Zone to keep out of foul trouble, we were also doing it because we had players going for all 40 minutes and zone takes less energy to play. On top of that we have a couple of players out there, namely Jackson and Enoch, who can't guard a light post and the zone helps cover that. We did not lose because of our D, bad as it was, we lost because we scored 12 points in the first half.

Yep I mean they only scored 62 against our depleted team if our guys went man, probably 72 or more.

 

[The Funster]

we had 3 perimeter players. you can't play m2m all game with just 3. you can't even push the ball on breaks much with just Purvis and Vital.

 

[Bagel&Cheese]

I don't care how undermanned we are - stop playing zone. You can't play zone and play UConn basketball. Screw it!

Not sure if your posted this just to get reactions but anyone who thinks we should play man to man with that squad doesn't have a clue. I'm not a big Ollie x and o guy but Coach K would have a hard time winning yesterday with that team out on the floor. Only way to have a chance to stay in game without foul trouble is zone. No other choice..

 

[Danzz]

We have 6 players man

And our bigs can't stay out of foul trouble. M2M with 6 players for the entire game? We should full court press while we are at it and stay in the locker room after halftime.

 

[huskymagic]

I don't care how undermanned we are - stop playing zone. You can't play zone and play UConn basketball. Screw it!

Chief how do you know this is Glen Miller's idea and not say Killings? The assistants give ideas but its the head coach Ollie that makes the decisions on how to play. Although I agree with your sentiment that we should play majority man to man and not sit back in zone especially not the first 10 minutes of a game where the team should be aggressive in. The team was not ready to play the first half whether they played zone or man to man, thats on the head coach not the assistant coach. We don't play with the right aggression and attitude on the court. Everything is done in a lackadaisical just another game approach. Hami will do wonders for us as he has the IT factor and plays with a cockiness and confidence on the court not to mention electrifying dunks.

 

[mauconnfan]

People are so dense. I mean can you imagine playing a small Houston team man to man with Jackson guarding a guard or Durham or Enoch a 6'6 guy with perimeter skills? I mean please look at your team before you say such ridiclous things, Brimah would have played 7 minutes he would have fouled so many times. They were small, pretty good with the ball all the way through Knowles and we have 3 of our 7 available guys who can't guard a wing or small forward. Think please before you speak. 75-25% was perfect yesterday and we had 2 non-PG's playing 40 minutes. Man to man is hardly even a smart choice with Jalen playing.

 

[cohenzone]

That's what worries me...that they were THAT bad...because our players, talent-wise, shouldn't be THAT outmatched.

But a big part of that is their team composition: The right 6-7 guys can be enough, though it's tough. This 6-7 guys, right now, ain't it.

One of the game announcers commented at the end that UConn had no bench scoring. Well, sort of, except 3 bench players started the game and had most of the points. The point is, as you point out, is which 6 or 7 are at your disposal. They could have gone man, but they might have also scored less than 12 second half points from chasing Houston all over the court. I'm not a big Ollie fan, don't think his teams are ever consistently focused. I think the zone decision was okay. The intensity was not. They weren't going to win anyway, but the intensity is gone.

I didn't always appreciate Calhoun's methods or temperment, but KO needs a quicker hook. When the team shot about 2 dozen more threes than he wanted the other night, JC would not have had that happen.

 

[James]

our defense is not up to usual standards but its still fairly above average. The bigs, the zone, all of this is moot until purvis/vital/jackson hit shots imo. These guys are bricking threes at an alarming rate, and they take half their fg's from beyond the arc.

 

[mauconnfan]

our defense is not up to usual standards but its still fairly above average. The bigs, the zone, all of this is moot until purvis/vital/jackson hit shots imo. These guys are bricking threes at an alarming rate, and they take half their fg's from beyond the arc.

Agree but you know what's crazy, there were numerous times in the first half that Vital, Jackson and Purvis passed up open looks to drive and create, problem is many of those resulted in TO's. So I must say I'd rather take a shot in which we make 20% of the shots than not get a shot at all. Scary thought huh?

 

[Chief00]

Agree but you know what's crazy, there were numerous times in the first half that Vital, Jackson and Purvis passed up open looks to drive and create, problem is many of those resulted in TO's. So I must say I'd rather take a shot in which we make 20% of the shots than not get a shot at all. Scary thought huh?

Agree lots of bad options. What though is difficult to quantify is how man to man defense makes you more aggressive on offense, creates fast breaks, should help you rebound etc. Besides the obvious it brings accountability and toughness and yes ultimately confidence over your opponent that goes into winning tough games.

Sadly, many of our players brick shots in pregame warm-ups and I can absolutely tell you there is a lack of concentration and confidence in the shooting - never mind any specific mechanics issue the dude may have.

I have watched guys like Jo Jo White, Chris Mullins, Larry Bird and Ray Allen warm up long before game time. Quite frankly, there is a focus and purpose to everything they do. They are systematic and there are no throw away shots - the intent is to make every shot - and there is the consistency and methodology to attempt to do that. Jo Jo had a great bank shot - a loss art. After watching him warm up for about 30 minutes at the HCC - I don't think he missed more than 2 shots - he was a machine. Larry Bird had that smooth flow where there would almost be a jet stream taking the ball into the hoop. The thing that always impressed me about Ray was how much he elevated and used his legs on each shot. Given the amount of shots he takes the conditioning to do that always amazed me.

 

[James]

@Chief00 honestly watching players warm up is a good indication of their confidence in shooting (how disciplined the routine is too), i have no qualms with that observation. chief spurts mountains of bs but sometimes there is stuff i agree on, dunno how that makes me feel. I saw vital play in hs with enoch and he shot the lights out in pregame and during the game. I still think he is a good shooter but is being asked to do a lot.

 

[Chief00]

@Chief00 honestly watching players warm up is a good indication of their confidence in shooting (how disciplined the routine is too), i have no qualms with that observation. chief spurts mountains of bs but sometimes there is stuff i agree on, dunno how that makes me feel. I saw vital play in hs with enoch and he shot the lights out in pregame and during the game. I still think he is a good shooter but is being asked to do a lot.

I don't agree with the BS part like Drummond coming to UConn in September or Diaco getting canned. Otherwise good observations. Vitale is a tough player - one thing I haven't seen him do is break down a guy off the dribble. Still holding out hope he can shot??

 

[James]

@Chief00 youre full of it sometimes lol just facts from different episodes on this board. however you do say some random things i agree as far as player development and hoops in general. Vital must thank god daily for the amount of minutes he is getting and touches, wouldn't have happened at unlv. this is a crash course for him, he has great mechanics imo unlike VJ, maybe the light switch turns on at some point. this year or next.

 

[Walker11]

@Chief00 honestly watching players warm up is a good indication of their confidence in shooting (how disciplined the routine is too), i have no qualms with that observation. chief spurts mountains of bs but sometimes there is stuff i agree on, dunno how that makes me feel. I saw vital play in hs with enoch and he shot the lights out in pregame and during the game. I still think he is a good shooter but is being asked to do a lot.

Chief has obviously watched a lot of basketball. A lot of the people I consider informed posters often have the same takes. Chief sometimes points out things we don't notice. But he is a delusional blowhard who derives too much from the validation of others. And he is stubborn as hell. Sorry @Chief00. This roster is too slow, thin in numbers and big heavy to play man predominantly. We all wish it weren't the case and look forward to getting back to pressure man2man when he have the horses next year.

 

[Chief00]

He needs to take advantage of opportunity. Establish himself as a shooter and hardnose type. See him coming off the bench next year in those roles.

 

[champs99and04]

I know this seems like a sizzling take but I actually kind of agree with a lot of what @Chief00 has said in this thread. I don't condone playing zone, ever. If Ollie wants to play some zone with six scholarship guys available, it is tough for me to object, but again...it was 36-12 at halftime. Obviously, the plan didn't work, and the point that I think he's making is that playing man - even if it gives us a lesser chance of winning right now - is more conducive to the long term development of the players.

 

[mauconnfan]

I know this seems like a sizzling take but I actually kind of agree with a lot of what @Chief00 has said in this thread. I don't condone playing zone, ever. If Ollie wants to play some zone with six scholarship guys available, it is tough for me to object, but again...it was 36-12 at halftime. Obviously, the plan didn't work, and the point that I think he's making is that playing man - even if it gives us a lesser chance of winning right now - is more conducive to the long term development of the players.

Hate to ask this but what does 36-12 have to do with man or zone? Are you saying we scored 12 because we weren't playing man defense?

The other team got 26 in the 2nd half and we got 34 doing the same thing, the only difference is making shots had nothing to do with our defense. I think we all come from Jim C's brand of hard nosed defense and would love to see man-to-man for basically 40 minutes but reality is it's insane to even think this crew could match up with anyone never mind actually do it and stay out of foul trouble. Not sure what people aren't getting when at no point in that game would we have been playing the 3 best players on the beginning roster at any point of the game and the only PG we have left for any part of the game? This was a no-brainer and they were forced to do this and no other coach on earth would have done it differently including one Mr Jim Calhoun. This gave the team their best chance to win period. 5 players were Enoch, Brimah, Facey, Durham and Jackson none of who can guard a 2G, swing or anyone who can play away from the basket. And Houston plays 4 guys who can handle the ball - please think about that 36 being 50 and how everyone is in foul trouble at halftime and the walk ons are playing? Exactly!

 

[Chief00]

I know this seems like a sizzling take but I actually kind of agree with a lot of what @Chief00 has said in this thread. I don't condone playing zone, ever. If Ollie wants to play some zone with six scholarship guys available, it is tough for me to object, but again...it was 36-12 at halftime. Obviously, the plan didn't work, and the point that I think he's making is that playing man - even if it gives us a lesser chance of winning right now - is more conducive to the long term development of the players.

Exactly, take the long strategic view. It's also building an accountable and tough culture. Besides as you say 36-12 speaks for itself. What people don't see is all the practice time we waste on Coach Miller preaching his various zones when we should be working on offense.

 

[Chief00]

Hate to ask this but what does 36-12 have to do with man or zone? Are you saying we scored 12 because we weren't playing man defense?

The other team got 26 in the 2nd half and we got 34 doing the same thing, the only difference is making shots had nothing to do with our defense. I think we all come from Jim C's brand of hard nosed defense and would love to see man-to-man for basically 40 minutes but reality is it's insane to even think this crew could match up with anyone never mind actually do it and stay out of foul trouble. Not sure what people aren't getting when at no point in that game would we have been playing the 3 best players on the beginning roster at any point of the game and the only PG we have left for any part of the game? This was a no-brainer and they were forced to do this and no other coach on earth would have done it differently including one Mr Jim Calhoun. This gave the team their best chance to win period. 5 players were Enoch, Brimah, Facey, Durham and Jackson none of who can guard a 2G, swing or anyone who can play away from the basket. And Houston plays 4 guys who can handle the ball - please think about that 36 being 50 and how everyone is in foul trouble at halftime and the walk ons are playing? Exactly!

Is our talent evaluation in recruiting that bad? So much of defense is heart and you can't score if you get denied and don't have the ball.
I have no problem with some zone - it makes the other team prepare for more stuff - but it should be a change up not our main thing.

Good tough aggressive defense can transition to offense and make our offense better. Guys just play and not overthink. The other team can shoot poorly against a zone and get offensive rebounds. Our guys seemed really confused about their defensive sliding in the zone.

 

[Onions]

Is our talent evaluation in recruiting that bad? So much of defense is heart and you can't score if you get denied and don't have the ball.
I have no problem with some zone - it makes the other team prepare for more stuff - but it should be a change up not our main thing.

Good tough aggressive defense can transition to offense and make our offense better. Guys just play and not overthink. The other team can shoot poorly against a zone and get offensive rebounds. Our guys seemed really confused about their defensive sliding in the zone.

Houston averages 79.4 points per game this year and we held them to 62. We scored 12 points in the first half. Your conclusion is that playing zone defense is the problem. 'Nuff said.

 

[aceboon]

One of the game announcers commented at the end that UConn had no bench scoring. Well, sort of, except 3 bench players started the game and had most of the points. The point is, as you point out, is which 6 or 7 are at your disposal. They could have gone man, but they might have also scored less than 12 second half points from chasing Houston all over the court. I'm not a big Ollie fan, don't think his teams are ever consistently focused. I think the zone decision was okay. The intensity was not. They weren't going to win anyway, but the intensity is gone.

I didn't always appreciate Calhoun's methods or temperment, but KO needs a quicker hook. When the team shot about 2 dozen more threes than he wanted the other night, JC would not have had that happen.

A quick hook to play who? A walk-on?

 

[cohenzone]

A quick hook to play who? A walk-on?

If need be. Sure would send a message.

 

[Chief00]

Houston averages 79.4 points per game this year and we held them to 62. We scored 12 points in the first half. Your conclusion is that playing zone defense is the problem. 'Nuff said.

Quite frankly, when someone ends their post with "nuff said" it generally means their arguments are weak and they don't want a counter response.
Ok, I will break it down again for the casual fans and others:
- Houston shot well over 50% - it was not great defense - KO said that himself post game. The reason they had less points was the time of possession not the quality of our possessions.
- I have said numerous times the problem with this team is they can't shoot and even in this thread I analyze that aspect.
- However basketball is not a two platoon sport as some of our posters with football backgrounds think - if played the right way - it's a transition game - allowing a team to throw up three shots on one possession and making one (33%) does not help the offense. Playing aggressive D - getting turnover, a block shot in bounds or a rebound and getting out and running is how the game is played and that improves your offense.
- This idea that zones protect fouls - I have seen us commit numerous fouls playing zones this year including the Auburn game where we were in the bonus and double bonus very early.

 

[mauconnfan]

Quite frankly, when someone ends their post with "nuff said" it generally means their arguments are weak and they don't want a counter response.
Ok, I will break it down again for the casual fans and others:
- Houston shot well over 50% - it was not great defense - KO said that himself post game. The reason they had less points was the time of possession not the quality of our possessions.
- I have said numerous times the problem with this team is they can't shoot and even in this thread I analyze that aspect.
- However basketball is not a two platoon sport as some of our posters with football backgrounds think - if played the right way - it's a transition game - allowing a team to throw up three shots on one possession and making one (33%) does not help the offense. Playing aggressive D - getting turnover, a block shot in bounds or a rebound and getting out and running is how the game is played and that improves your offense.
- This idea that zones protect fouls - I have seen us commit numerous fouls playing zones this year including the Auburn game where we were in the bonus and double bonus very early.

Wow c'mon Chief stay with us here. We all agree with you in a better year with a full squad this is the way to go, man all out the UConn way. But you have no argument for how it was played the other night, ZERO. They had match up nightmares galore, they have only 2 serviceable guards neither of which are PG's and they have 2 bigs that always are in foul trouble. Did you really want this game played with 5 walk ons the last 10 minutes?

You have no argument, they played it the way it had to be played and I will make you cringe again like Onions - 'Nuff said