Zone Offense.. Uconn please take notes

[bfair]

Watching the Michigan vs NCST game (which is a great game and I believe Michigan can win the whole thing this year) and I hope the Uconn staff is taking notes on Zone Offense that Michigan runs.

I am sorry to those who will tell me I shouldn't question JC and his success and you may be right. But I have not liked our half court offense for a while now and our zone offense is in a word deplorable. Last year watching the 2 cuse games I almost lost it. At the dome and in the first half AO and AD got the ball 5 times at the elbow where a zone is weak . 3 missed shots, 1 travel, 1 charge and so on. The zone offense was stagnant and looked lost to me. It was the most ineffective zone attack I have ever seen. and we showed the same against LVille (they played zone) ND and so on. On-ball screens vs a zone do little more than clog up the offense and allow 1 defensive player to cover two players. Now there are times where OFF BALL screens and back screens on the wing make alot of sense vs a zone but a High post on ball screen is plain stupid.

Coaches must know there personal and the strengths and weaknesses. AO or AD had no business getting the ball at the elbow, I don't care what position he plays or anything. It is bad coaching. I kept yelling at J Lamb to go the the middle bc he or Roscoe should have been there. If lamb or Roscoe had roamed the elbow they would have created a true triple threat, they would have had 30 and we would have won those games.

So this year we are going to be playing offense vs zones quite a bit and I don't want wolfe or even TO there. Giffey or DD to flash to that spot and run an overload or a kick out to our rotating guards. Hopefully the coaches are reading this because we have the personal to be effective vs the zone and it would also allow our smaller size to perhaps have some success with some weak-side rebounds. Put Giff at the elbow and let him square and either dump down on an overload to the block or shoot or drive or kick out. This will win us 2 games this year

Please dont respond with how I am an idiot for question JC. The half court offense is NOT good and this is something that is a small change but will make a huge Difference.

 

[bfair]

all that being said, I am not playing "monday morning QB" I wrote the same thing a year ago after the cuse game. The coaches need to ask Bobby K how he would do it if they cant figure it out.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Ask everyone's hero Bilas about screening a zone, he will emphatically disagree with you.

No offense, but posts like that make me cringe. Were you posting this stuff when they had Boone and Villanueva and Marcus Williams ******** all over Syracuse's zone?

 

[caw]

I don't want to jump down your throat, but Cuse's zone (while a gimmick and improper for those wanting future pro success) is the best out there. They recruit big, tall, lanky dudes who cover ground and execute the zone almost as well as one can. You can't compare theirs to NCST.

That said, a lot of the issues UConn has had recently are related to who is on the team, not the offense run. UConn has done well in the past against the zone due to a few things: 3PT shooting, foul line jumper shooting by the 4's, wing shots by the 3's and offensive rebounding. Last year the players playing the 3-5 couldn't shoot to save their life. UConn also has limited TO's and breakouts by not turning the ball over near the top of the key.

 

[dogpause]

Well, we all wanted a Calhoun disciple, and yet some of us are surprised about the half court offense. It is ironic.

However, I'm confident Kevin will figure it out, but we should also try to have reasonable expectations with this squad.

 

[Dogbreath2U]

It seems to me that the UConn teams that have had really good and mature point guards have done well against zones and the other teams have not.

 

[bfair]

agree and i wasn't comparing their zone with NCSTATE's . But teams a lot less talented than Uconn like ND, South Florida, Rutgers, LVille (alot of years) have really been able to capitalize on running a solid well coached zone attack when Uconn with alot more talent hasn't. We haven't fared well vs a zone in many years and you can say its because we don't have great shooters but I disagree. The fact is that we don't have a good half court offense and haven't for years - anyone in disagreement in my mind isn't a savvy fan. JC has developed great stars and great NBA style play which coincidentally has corresponded to our NBA pipeline.

We need to adjust to our personal and our approach in games - look at how belichek plays vs different opponents we need to do the same.. Last year we average 58 points/ game (i think) and at the time and cuse averaged 78 and we pushed the ball consistently. Listen do the math, if we score at our rate we lose the game by 15-20 (which we did). We had no mathimatical chance of winning that game given our season statistics. and that wasn't the only year is was the case. Teams that beat or compete vs cuse slow it down and run good half court sets ie. S. Florida, lville, and cinci and ND. How come ND which had 1/2 the talent that uconn has beats us and beats the cuse. because they understand its chess not checkers.


There aren't too many teams that have tourney success with a zone defense (including Syracuse) because they eventually run up vs a Wisconsin or an Ohio st. or gonazaga team which slows the game down and attacks the zone and so on. I know basketball and no one can convince me that our zone offense is in any way as effective as it should be and that there are obvious changes that the staff needs to make to beat the zone.

If I was coach.. I would have a few sets where I clear out for Boatshow (no one can stop him one v one) and let him go. send 3 players weak side for a rebound and rotate one player back for defense. I would run the high post wheel with Daniels at the elbow. I would run the old ray allen/rip play with the double screen off the baseline for a 3 in the corner (did this with baz twice). and run more iso clear outs providing more weak side rebounding . We have 3 guards, OC is huge and I am certain there is a speed or size mismatch when he and DD are in the game - why not look at iso'ing the mismatch? We stand around and there are no off ball screens and no movement without the ball at all.
Our offensive sets are no good and hasn't been consistent forever. Anyone trying to say they are for the sake of arguing isn't being realistic.

Either play full court Defense and turn back the clock or utilize the personal and develop half curt sets taking advantage of the strengths we have.

 

[bfair]

It seems to me that the UConn teams that have had really good and mature point guards have done well against zones and the other teams have not.

They have not over the last 4 years other than the players that uconn has are the most gutty players there are and may win games despite a bad team offensive strategy. If you think the way we attack a zone is effective then I am sorry you are incorrect. I cant deny our players may have gritted their way through it but our set zone offense is not good. fact

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

They have not over the last 4 years other than the players that uconn has are the most gutty players there are and may win games despite a bad team offensive strategy. If you think the way we attack a zone is effective then I am sorry you are incorrect. I cant deny our players may have gritted their way through it but our set zone offense is not good. fact

Brian are you coaching at South Mountain High this year? You had 1 of the purest 3 point strokes in UConn history.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

agree and i wasn't comparing their zone with NCSTATE's . But teams a lot less talented than Uconn like ND, South Florida, Rutgers, LVille (alot of years) have really been able to capitalize on running a solid well coached zone attack when Uconn with alot more talent hasn't. We haven't fared well vs a zone in many years and you can say its because we don't have great shooters but I disagree. The fact is that we don't have a good half court offense and haven't for years - anyone in disagreement in my mind isn't a savvy fan. JC has developed great stars and great NBA style play which coincidentally has corresponded to our NBA pipeline.

We need to adjust to our personal and our approach in games - look at how belichek plays vs different opponents we need to do the same.. Last year we average 58 points/ game (i think) and at the time and cuse averaged 78 and we pushed the ball consistently. Listen do the math, if we score at our rate we lose the game by 15-20 (which we did). We had no mathimatical chance of winning that game given our season statistics. and that wasn't the only year is was the case. Teams that beat or compete vs cuse slow it down and run good half court sets ie. S. Florida, lville, and cinci and ND. How come ND which had 1/2 the talent that uconn has beats us and beats the cuse. because they understand its chess not checkers.


There aren't too many teams that have tourney success with a zone defense (including Syracuse) because they eventually run up vs a Wisconsin or an Ohio st. or gonazaga team which slows the game down and attacks the zone and so on. I know basketball and no one can convince me that our zone offense is in any way as effective as it should be and that there are obvious changes that the staff needs to make to beat the zone.

If I was coach.. I would have a few sets where I clear out for Boatshow (no one can stop him one v one) and let him go. send 3 players weak side for a rebound and rotate one player back for defense. I would run the high post wheel with Daniels at the elbow. I would run the old ray allen/rip play with the double screen off the baseline for a 3 in the corner (did this with baz twice). and run more iso clear outs providing more weak side rebounding . We have 3 guards, OC is huge and I am certain there is a speed or size mismatch when he and DD are in the game - why not look at iso'ing the mismatch? We stand around and there are no off ball screens and no movement without the ball at all.
Our offensive sets are no good and hasn't been consistent forever. Anyone trying to say they are for the sake of arguing isn't being realistic.

Either play full court Defense and turn back the clock or utilize the personal and develop half curt sets taking advantage of the strengths we have.

I for 1 welcome you to the Boneyard!!!!!!!!! I would love to talk the national scene as the season progresses or before you get to busy.

 

[Danzz]

Watching the Michigan vs NCST game (which is a great game and I believe Michigan can win the whole thing this year) and I hope the Uconn staff is taking notes on Zone Offense that Michigan runs.

I am sorry to those who will tell me I shouldn't question JC and his success and you may be right. But I have not liked our half court offense for a while now and our zone offense is in a word deplorable. Last year watching the 2 cuse games I almost lost it. At the dome and in the first half AO and AD got the ball 5 times at the elbow where a zone is weak . 3 missed shots, 1 travel, 1 charge and so on. The zone offense was stagnant and looked lost to me. It was the most ineffective zone attack I have ever seen. and we showed the same against LVille (they played zone) ND and so on. On-ball screens vs a zone do little more than clog up the offense and allow 1 defensive player to cover two players. Now there are times where OFF BALL screens and back screens on the wing make alot of sense vs a zone but a High post on ball screen is plain stupid.

Coaches must know there personal and the strengths and weaknesses. AO or AD had no business getting the ball at the elbow, I don't care what position he plays or anything. It is bad coaching. I kept yelling at J Lamb to go the the middle bc he or Roscoe should have been there. If lamb or Roscoe had roamed the elbow they would have created a true triple threat, they would have had 30 and we would have won those games.

So this year we are going to be playing offense vs zones quite a bit and I don't want wolfe or even TO there. Giffey or DD to flash to that spot and run an overload or a kick out to our rotating guards. Hopefully the coaches are reading this because we have the personal to be effective vs the zone and it would also allow our smaller size to perhaps have some success with some weak-side rebounds. Put Giff at the elbow and let him square and either dump down on an overload to the block or shoot or drive or kick out. This will win us 2 games this year

Please dont respond with how I am an idiot for question JC. The half court offense is NOT good and this is something that is a small change but will make a huge Difference.

Our half court offense has never been great no matter which Uconn team you want to look at. Our good teams have either been good pressure teams or we had dominant big guys who could block shots, rebound and start the break. Traditionally we have been outstanding at open court offense but below average once the shot clock goes past 12-15 seconds. Half court offense has never been JC's strong point.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

bfair,

This is a bit off the UConn topic. What would be your coaching strategy to knock off #1 ranked Indiana this year.

Thank you in advance for the analysis.

 

[CTBasketball]

We haven't had a decent zone offense since 08'-09'

 

[bfair]

bfair,

This is a bit off the UConn topic. What would be your coaching strategy to knock off #1 ranked Indiana this year.

Thank you in advance for the analysis.

Not sure why this is a question and I have to assume you are being sarcastic.. and again while I have alot of college hoops coaching contacts and have had the privilege of learning from many of the top coaches and read every book Bobby Knight ever wrote....I am not a college coach but love the game.

Indiana does alot of things well and handles the ball well too. To be honest, and again I sense your disingenuous tone, but i goes without saying that we may be under matched here. I guess my strategy would be to extend the defense on ball - maybe our old 2-2-1 3/4 court press with dd in the back. also to foul zeller with off ball guards whenever he has possession on the block. I would also switch back into a zone and utilize multiple defensive sets throughout the game hoping to not allow them to get into a rhythm.

I would also use our ball handling to utilize shot clock and minimize possessions (maybe use the guard hand off motion up top)- also makes their guards guard us for 15 seconds each possession. (very similar to how ND vs us last year - also increases offensive rebounds too. look it up the later in the shot clock the better % of rebounds). I would also let baz play the point and run boat off screens because he is great catching the ball and making an offensive move. If they go to zone let OC bring it up and rn both baz and boat off the screens. It would be a good change with bazz or OC on the ball and with boat moving without the ball.

In a sense I would play to our streghth which is guard play and the ability to play on ball and off ball defense. I would also have giffey in the game every minute.

i am sorry if you think that we run an offense that utilizes the player's strengths and we cant get better. I honestly hope KO sees this and makes some changes.

 

[bfair]

Our half court offense has never been great no matter which Uconn team you want to look at. Our good teams have either been good pressure teams or we had dominant big guys who could block shots, rebound and start the break. Traditionally we have been outstanding at open court offense but below average once the shot clock goes past 12-15 seconds. Half court offense has never been JC's strong point.

I agree.... so.... with this lineup and lack of frontcourt size we need to adjust.. no?

 

[huskyharry]

Watching the Michigan vs NCST game (which is a great game and I believe Michigan can win the whole thing this year) and I hope the Uconn staff is taking notes on Zone Offense that Michigan runs.

I am sorry to those who will tell me I shouldn't question JC and his success and you may be right. But I have not liked our half court offense for a while now and our zone offense is in a word deplorable. Last year watching the 2 cuse games I almost lost it. At the dome and in the first half AO and AD got the ball 5 times at the elbow where a zone is weak . 3 missed shots, 1 travel, 1 charge and so on. The zone offense was stagnant and looked lost to me. It was the most ineffective zone attack I have ever seen. and we showed the same against LVille (they played zone) ND and so on. On-ball screens vs a zone do little more than clog up the offense and allow 1 defensive player to cover two players. Now there are times where OFF BALL screens and back screens on the wing make alot of sense vs a zone but a High post on ball screen is plain stupid.

Coaches must know there personal and the strengths and weaknesses. AO or AD had no business getting the ball at the elbow"



Absolutely right...a big reason AO has looked a little better for Mizzu this year is that Haith never let's him set up at the elbow but leaves him in the low block. Oklahoma City has been doing the same thing with (except when Hash sets top of the key picks) and it makes him much more effective

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Not sure why this is a question and I have to assume you are being sarcastic.. and again while I have alot of college hoops coaching contacts and have had the privilege of learning from many of the top coaches and read every book Bobby Knight ever wrote....I am not a college coach but love the game.

Indiana does alot of things well and handles the ball well too. To be honest, and again I sense your disingenuous tone, but i goes without saying that we may be under matched here. I guess my strategy would be to extend the defense on ball - maybe our old 2-2-1 3/4 court press with dd in the back. also to foul zeller with off ball guards whenever he has possession on the block. I would also switch back into a zone and utilize multiple defensive sets throughout the game hoping to not allow them to get into a rhythm.

I would also use our ball handling to utilize shot clock and minimize possessions (maybe use the guard hand off motion up top)- also makes their guards guard us for 15 seconds each possession. (very similar to how ND vs us last year - also increases offensive rebounds too. look it up the later in the shot clock the better % of rebounds). I would also let baz play the point and run boat off screens because he is great catching the ball and making an offensive move. If they go to zone let OC bring it up and rn both baz and boat off the screens. It would be a good change with bazz or OC on the ball and with boat moving without the ball.

In a sense I would play to our streghth which is guard play and the ability to play on ball and off ball defense. I would also have giffey in the game every minute.

i am sorry if you think that we run an offense that utilizes the player's strengths and we cant get better. I honestly hope KO sees this and makes some changes.

Well Indiana is ranked #1 and many consider them a prohibitive favorite to cut down the nets. I am a UConn fan but also follow Gonzaga closely this year. So I decided to take you a bit out of your comfort zone and make a rather simple strategy inquiry relating to #1 ranked Indiana. Your answer is interesting and thought provoking. Why foul Zeller with off the ball guards? You want to roll the dice and put him at the line. 62% last year. Looking at the totality of the circumstances couldn't the cumulative effect of that strategy backfire?

If you were Gonzaga with their personnel what might you do differently? You may not have seen much of the Zags so it would be understandable if you couldn't go in this direction now. Again sorry to bring this a bit off topic relating to the Zags. I understand any reluctance to give analysis relating to a team you may be unfamiliar with.

I think my question was rather straight forward with regards to the Hoosiers.

Good luck with your coaching career. Interesting reading your posts.

Take it easy...

 

[msgordon]

as some posters have alluded to, you need a certain personnel to work with. uconn teams from 04-06 and 08-09 would often DESTROY zones

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

http://www.uconnhooplegends.com/menslegends/FairBrian.html

The guy is impressive with great potential as a coach. Like the analysis and passion.

Maybe this year more people will drop a few dimes and get the word out on this guy.

 

[mauconnfan]

harry please....whether he was on the low block or the high post he was a piece of crap last year leave it alone......most of his points may have come from the elbow actually last year as he rarely beat anyone inside with his pitiful attempt at interior offense......it's not Haith it's the kid.....Oh yeah check to see how smart haith was as a 30 point favorite in the 1st round of the NCAA tourney last year....give it up on AO he sucked!!

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

harry please....whether he was on the low block or the high post he was a piece of crap last year leave it alone......most of his points may have come from the elbow actually last year as he rarely beat anyone inside with his pitiful attempt at interior offense......it's not Haith it's the kid.....Oh yeah check to see how smart haith was as a 30 point favorite in the 1st round of the NCAA tourney last year....give it up on AO he sucked!!

He hasn't progressed much at Missouri either. It doesn't look like Flip has much confidence in Alex at the moment. Maybe that will change. He can be a personable kid when his head is screwed on right. The problem is that may not be often enough to provide quality leadership at crunch time for a talented Missouri team. If/when Dixon comes back AO can expect fewer opportunities on the offensive end.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

When we had teams loaded with pros at every position, our zone offense seemed just fine.

Even the 2011 team was criticized for having a lousy zone offense...and then they beat Syracuse and Louisville in the BET despite neither of those teams playing anything but zone.

Want to know why Michigan looked really good against NC State's zone? It's because Michigan has really good players.