Yet another Marinatto screw up

[Rumrunner]

Marinatto was paid to lead the Big East, the same BE that saw 3 of its most marketable football teams defect to the ACC. Marinatto takes the helm and did he lead the conference? Did he through strength of argument and charismatic will unite the disparate factions into a stronger conference? He finally moves and allows a historical conference pirate (TCU) to be invited. Then what? His grand vision was upgrading a relatively poor parochial school that possessed neither the money nor viable facilities to compete at the BCS level

Instead he sat down with Swofford and Beebe (I guess a kind of cross between a Mauro Puzzo character and a Roman ambassador to the Senones.)

Once Marinatto did this, through his energetic and elegant leadership the BE proceeded to take it up the ssa.

But its not about the confetence chairman? If your complaint is that without compliant constituency the BE was doomed to failure, then by definition Marinatto failed. It was his J. O. B to lead. And he didn't.

So now UConn is in a conference with only one other northeastern football team. But go on thinking that Marinatto was a success!

 

[businesslawyer]

Marinatto was paid to lead the Big East, the same BE that saw 3 of its most marketable football teams defect to the ACC. Marinatto takes the helm and did he lead the conference? Did he through strength of argument and charismatic will unite the disparate factions into a stronger conference? He finally moves and allows a historical conference pirate (TCU) to be invited. Then what? His grand vision was upgrading a relatively poor parochial school that possessed neither the money nor viable facilities to compete at the BCS level

Instead he sat down with Swofford and Beebe (I guess a kind of cross between a Mauro Puzzo character and a Roman ambassador to the Senones.)

Once Marinatto did this, through his energetic and elegant leadership the BE proceeded to take it up the ssa.

But its not about the confetence chairman? If your complaint is that without compliant constituency the BE was doomed to failure, then by definition Marinatto failed. It was his J. O. B to lead. And he didn't.

So now UConn is in a conference with only one other northeastern football team. But go on thinking that Marinatto was a success!

Based on that argument, the Republicans should be blaming Obama that he can't get the Republican house to follow his initiatives. (Maybe they are and I've just tuned out.)

By the way, I am not saying he has or hasn't been a good Commissioner. Only his bosses know that. But blaming him for not being able to solve the problem that we had the football conference with the fewest fans, in a part of the country where the fewest people care, and that no one in the rest of the country cares about, is silly. Is he a genuis because of how great our basketball league was last year?

 

[Rumrunner]

I don't follow politics all that much, but aten't the Repub and Obama from separate parties, more like the opposition to the other? Here, Marinatto is the leader of the whole conference, and presumably the members of the conference are supposed to work together for the common good (queue up the song of Stalin). I will grant you that having bb schools and fb schools was a recipe for failure, and perhaps no chairman could have succeeded given what the challenges the BE faced. But offering Villanova in light of the other challenges you enumerated is enough for me to say marinatto sucked.

Based on that argument, the Republicans should be blaming Obama that he can't get the Republican house to follow his initiatives. (Maybe they are and I've just tuned out.)

By the way, I am not saying he has or hasn't been a good Commissioner. Only his bosses know that. But blaming him for not being able to solve the problem that we had the football conference with the fewest fans, in a part of the country where the fewest people care, and that no one in the rest of the country cares about, is silly. Is he a genuis because of how great our basketball league was last year?

 

[Marty Jackson]

I don't follow politics all that much, but aten't the Repub and Obama from separate parties, more like the opposition to the other? Here, Marinatto is the leader of the whole conference, and presumably the members of the conference are supposed to work together for the common good (queue up the song of Stalin). I will grant you that having bb schools and fb schools was a recipe for failure, and perhaps no chairman could have succeeded given what the challenges the BE faced. But offering Villanova in light of the other challenges you enumerated is enough for me to say marinatto sucked.

Unfortunately tradition, fanbase, public perception and tv ratings dictate a conference's ranking. That alone put the Big East behind the 8-ball. Added to that the 2003 raid by the ACC and the Big East couldn't recover...
Considering the Big East has remained competitive and finished ahead of the ACC and Pac10 in the BCS polls (in some years) should indicate that there have been some levels of success. But you can't create traditions overnight, nor can you easily change public perception.
There is a clear pecking order to the BCS conferences and unfortunately the Big East is viewed as #6 regardless of on-field performance. Like it or not, schools from the other conferences are not going to align themselves with a conference that is lower than the one they're in. Given those facts, not certain what Marinatto could have done differently (besides the commonly referred to plan of forcing ND and Penn State to join)...

 

[Nostical]

You can praise or denigrate Marinatto for how he has dealt with the issues that faced and continue to challenge the Big East, but don't try and contend that he was tied down by his bosses, the University Presidents. The problem has much more to do with his leadership and his imagination. Both Mike Tranghese of The Big East and Tom Hansen of the Pac 12 retired. The Big East promoted Marinatto.The Pac 12 hired Larry Scott. Here's the latest commentary on Scott as they just extended his contract through 2016: "Scott, 47, has done more in two years than just about any of the five commissioners before him....... combined.”
This is a tiring discussion so I'll leave you with a rhetorical question. If the hires were switched, who among you think Scott would have been tied down by his Big East bosses? He brought unique, outside the box, unheard of ideas to the Pac 12 Presidents. And they ultimately listened. As I recall from my history class, all of Lincoln’s Generals had the same excuses for mediocrity---until Grant showed up.

 

[whaler11]

BL,

I think fundamentally, we disagree on whether Marrinatto is/was a good choice for commissioner. I think he has been a disaster. Now it might be that the conference model itself is fundamentally flawed. The BC president insists that it is. And the fact that only 1 of the original Big East football members currently remains in the league, and they would leave in a heartbeat if offered a spot in another league, and the team with the 2nd longest tenure, and a Big East founder, UCONN, would do the same, as would Louisville and Cincinatti, indicates that something is wrong. And it isn't only money. By all accounts the Big East had a chance to land a contract that was pretty close to that of the ACC, and maybe could have swamped the ACC in the open market. It would have been a tough go for a highly competent commissioner to keep this mess together from spinning out of control. For Marrinatto, a small time guy whose main ties were to the basketball schools, it has been impossible.

It's not the model. It's the individual members weren't strong enough to create a whole that is more attractive than pretty much any other league that would have an individual member. That was the problem in 2003. That is the problem now.

 

[whaler11]

Oh, and the biggest fallacy in the world is the Big East's bowl record. Of course they have a good bowl record, while the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 battle each other and send multiple teams to the BCS, the Big East has been playing the MAC, CUSA and the ACC.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Oh, and the biggest fallacy in the world is the Big East's bowl record. Of course they have a good bowl record, while the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 battle each other and send multiple teams to the BCS, the Big East has been playing the MAC, CUSA and the ACC.

But the BCS bowl record of the Big East also indicates some level of success as well. That's the record people are really talking about when discussing BCS conferences.

 

[whaler11]

But the BCS bowl record of the Big East also indicates some level of success as well. That's the record people are really talking about when discussing BCS conferences.

The members going forward are 1-3. The current members are 4-5, non WVU is 1-5. So really West Virginia has had some success, everyone else has Louisville's win over Wake Forest.

 

[businesslawyer]

You can praise or denigrate Marinatto for how he has dealt with the issues that faced and continue to challenge the Big East, but don't try and contend that he was tied down by his bosses, the University Presidents. The problem has much more to do with his leadership and his imagination. Both Mike Tranghese of The Big East and Tom Hansen of the Pac 12 retired. The Big East promoted Marinatto.The Pac 12 hired Larry Scott. Here's the latest commentary on Scott as they just extended his contract through 2016: "Scott, 47, has done more in two years than just about any of the five commissioners before him....... combined.”
This is a tiring discussion so I'll leave you with a rhetorical question. If the hires were switched, who among you think Scott would have been tied down by his Big East bosses? He brought unique, outside the box, unheard of ideas to the Pac 12 Presidents. And they ultimately listened. As I recall from my history class, all of Lincoln’s Generals had the same excuses for mediocrity---until Grant showed up.

Do I think Scott would be increasing money more than Marinatto? Yes, probably. He hit the rock out of the park. Do I think he would have kept Syracuse and Pitt in? No. Not a chance. If Pitt and Syracuse thought it was important who was our Commissioner, they would have said "we'll leave unless ____ is hired." Why doesn't it tell you something that they just left?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The members going forward are 1-3. The current members are 4-5, non WVU is 1-5. So really West Virginia has had some success, everyone else has Louisville's win over Wake Forest.

Certainly demonstrates how vital is was to get a program like Boise in here to replace WVU. It cannot be sugarcoated that we have lost our best football programs over the last decade.

 

[Nostical]

Not so sure Pitt and Syr would have left if Scott (for example) had developed and pushed the concept of a Big East TV network in concert with ESPN and perhaps others and sold the Pitt President on the deal. Or developed a partnership with the ACC like the Big 10 and Pac 12 did. He could have promoted the idea of getting to 12 and a Big East Championship game, etc. Larry Scott pursued and got Colorado and Utah for the Pac 12. He might have set his sights on a few wobbly Big 12 schools for the Big East as well, and early enough in the process when it would have mattered. In the end, ideas, charismatic leadership, money, and timing all make a very big difference. I don't mean to canonize the guy, but its pretty clear he would have been a catalyst rather than a reactor. You can chortle about the absurdity of any of that happenning but in fact that's exactly what the Pac 12 Presidents did when Scott first brought them his vision for the conference. Go back and read some of that recent history. They're not laughing now.

 

[Pudge]

We have a bad position. Undeniable.

I buy the Larry Scott argument (and frankly, isn't that the spark of the Dave Gavitt legacy); but, BL correctly pointed out that you aren't going to change the dynamic: the BE traditionals (BC, Pitt, SU, WVU) were going to leave if they ever got an opening. WE ARE # 6 for a reason.

The point that I keep making ... and some here will never consider ... is that OUR UConn & also Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville & USF have IMPROVED markedly with a whiff of BigTime atmosphere. Since 2004. BC? SU? Pitt? They flatlined. IMO. (West Virginia has been on a much higher plane.) We need to stop with the insulting comments about the new Conference USA ... and see if SMU, Houston, San Diego State, UCF can join us & Boise in really upgrading. Simple. That is a fun idea. But, my guess is that the Rumrunners of the world run this board. We rather be miserable. (Fact is: I don't think Marinatto or UConn really had much they could have changed)

 

[coachcap]

We have a bad position. Undeniable.

I buy the Larry Scott argument (and frankly, isn't that the spark of the Dave Gavitt legacy); but, BL correctly pointed out that you aren't going to change the dynamic: the BE traditionals (BC, Pitt, SU, WVU) were going to leave if they ever got an opening. WE ARE # 6 for a reason.

The point that I keep making ... and some here will never consider ... is that OUR UConn & also Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville & USF have IMPROVED markedly with a whiff of BigTime atmosphere. Since 2004. BC? SU? Pitt? They flatlined. IMO. (West Virginia has been on a much higher plane.) We need to stop with the insulting comments about the new Conference USA ... and see if SMU, Houston, San Diego State, UCF can join us & Boise in really upgrading. Simple. That is a fun idea. But, my guess is that the Rumrunners of the world run this board. We rather be miserable. (Fact is: I don't think Marinatto or UConn really had much they could have changed)

Toally agree Pudge. Tone it down folks with the denigrating of the new additions. Let them move into the neighborhood & set down some roots.
As an aside, I went to the Memphis Scout board & invited their posters to come over to this board for some conversation. One of them posted back that after visiting & seeing the insults toward the new arrivals, that he'd pass on future visits.

 

[freescooter]

We have a bad position. Undeniable.

I buy the Larry Scott argument (and frankly, isn't that the spark of the Dave Gavitt legacy); but, BL correctly pointed out that you aren't going to change the dynamic: the BE traditionals (BC, Pitt, SU, WVU) were going to leave if they ever got an opening. WE ARE # 6 for a reason.

The point that I keep making ... and some here will never consider ... is that OUR UConn & also Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville & USF have IMPROVED markedly with a whiff of BigTime atmosphere. Since 2004. BC? SU? Pitt? They flatlined. IMO. (West Virginia has been on a much higher plane.) We need to stop with the insulting comments about the new Conference USA ... and see if SMU, Houston, San Diego State, UCF can join us & Boise in really upgrading. Simple. That is a fun idea. But, my guess is that the Rumrunners of the world run this board. We rather be miserable. (Fact is: I don't think Marinatto or UConn really had much they could have changed)

Pudge,
You are correct about the improvement at UCONN, Rutgers USF though not so much Louisville who actually took a step back, and I am hopeful that some of the new additons will take similar steps forward. And that will be fun to watch as it always is when a nobody suddenly becomes somebody in the world of sports. I've argued for years that that very fact is a reason that th ebig East should have added some of these new members a while ago. That doesn't change the fact that Marinatto has been a disaster. Had he brought together a major proposal, and sold it to his membership, it might not have prevented the quislings from bolting...but it might have. No real way of knowing. And in any event, if Central Florida and let's say Memphis, had been members since say 2007, heck even since last year, the Big East football conference and for that matter the basketball confernece which is also getting jocked BTW, would have been in far better shape. Can't, of course lay it all at the feet of marinatto, he didn't become commissioner until 2009, but he has continued to be reactive on football, just like Mike Tranghese (for whom, I have to say, I have only minimally more respect). When you look at the commissioners out there, even the former B-12 guy they fired, they have all been more creative, more aggressive than any that we have had. they have only ever looked at football when circumstances forced them to, and until the most recent expansion, never as a 'growth' part of the conference, only for defensive purposes. Not sure that UCONN, or Rutgers or cincy or USF could have done much differently. I'm not sure that Marinatto or any commissioner could have come up with a plan to protect the Big East. There may simply be too many diverse interests. But I don't think it is unfair to say that clearly Marinatto wasn't up to the task. Bottom line to me is that he had so little respect, and so few contacts that the Syracuse/Pitt defection occurred and he was absolutley clueless, and it was announced while he was attendinga game in an ACC stadium. Say what you will, colleges are not exactly the CIA. Leaks happen ALL THE TIME. And I refuse to believe that any other commissioner, even Tranghese, certianly not Gavitt, would have been dissed like he was on the Syrapitt announcement.