What's Happening at LA Tech [merged thread]

[Wally East]

Ugh, I feel sorry for the La Tech, fans, too. La Tech has fallen so far.

 

[Kibitzer]

Was the young lady a victim or not?

I believe that she was, while she was a player at Marquette and Tyler was in a position of power, or at least influence, as the assistant coach. BUT. . .

. . . When he left Marquette iin 2014 to take the head coaching position, she lost her "victim" status (IMO) by voluntarily transferring from Marquette to LaTech to sustain the affair. She (voluntarily) sat out the 2014-2015 season in Ruston, La., and resumed playing this season.

Then the dam burst.

A footnote. A teammate transferred with her. There has been no reason reported for her action.

Finally, we cannot "feel badly" for anyone. We may correctly feel bad. Honest.

 

[Wally East]

Nope. We're not doing this. We are not judging the player. Nope. Nope. Nope.

 

[Vowelguy]

This thread seems to have run its course and is now veering off into bad territory.

 

[cordarone]

And what about the impregnated "other woman"? She doesn't get a pass, despite her bleak future. There will be no shortage of people to judge her, but I am not one of them.

Yes you are.

 

[hamster]

May I just mention that it is so refreshing when the sanctimonious stub their toe on the realities of life.
That's all.

 

[vtcwbuff]

There are "victims" but Summitt and his player are not among them. Feel sorry for the wife, Coach Summitt and the team mates of the player that was "doing the coach". I can think of few things more poisonous to team dynamics and cohesion than to have a player that is perceived as getting favorable treatment from a coach because of a sexual relationship. "The only reason that she is starting over me is because she's sleeping with the coach."

I know that some here will find this hard to accept but there are women that are just as sexually aggressive as men. Often that aggression is directed to someone in a position of power. I saw this many times in the military where young enlisted women would pursue relationships with their seniors exclusively. In the Navy we even had a "special" name for them.

 

[Kibitzer]

Nope. We're not doing this. We are not judging the player. Nope. Nope. Nope.

I plead guilty. I got into this "victim" argument and got carried away. I wish I had let it go. Sorry.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Nope. We're not doing this. We are not judging the player. Nope. Nope. Nope.

Why not?

 

[FairView]

We can't judge people, but it's not because of their positions. It's because we don't know how anything went down.

 

[UcMiami]

Kib - I do understand what you are saying, and in some specific instances I am sure you are right, but without really knowing the nature of the relationship clearly you just cannot assume that the transfer was an 'act of consent'. We all understand the concept of 'grooming' when it involves minor children, and we all tend to look at age and adulthood as measures of maturity and emotional stability and 'responsibility', but the reality is that those are gross generalization and 'on average' qualifications. And 'grooming' can occur with adults, too, we may call it something else but it is the same process. We can also recognize that the way society treats athletes and child proteges in some ways shelters them and can frequently stunt both emotional growth and experiential growth.

We are finally as a society understanding that abusive relationships are not the fault of the abused party for simply not leaving. You would not say about the victim of domestic abuse 'well, the abuser moved from one city to another, so obviously when the abused party moved too, they are no longer a victim. You would condemn anyone who suggested such a thing, because you understand the concept of dysfunctional relationships and codependency. But when it becomes tied into 'congress' between two people as opposed to physical abuse people become less clear thinking and their 'morality' may override their understandings of the dynamics of dysfunctional relationships.

I gather from other postings that Tyler was want to trumpet his deep Christian beliefs with frequent bible quotes on his social media, and in some ways a coach can be very similar to a preacher in the great America religion of sport. And in the authority we invest in coaches there is a hint of 'devotion' and players become acolytes - the past few decades have shown how dangerously religious authority can be abused. It is for me quite easy to envision that same kind of abuse occurring in the current situation. The religious abuse of authority is not limited to child victims though they receive the greatest outrage, and I don't think we can assume the only victims of abuse of coaching authority are 'children' either.

In the same way that everyone assumes the wife is a victim when there are certainly documented scenarios where that is not the case, it is dangerous to assume the 'other woman' is not a victim just because there are certainly cases where she is a coconspirator.

 

[Eskapeesto]

Tyler Summitt when first called in and confronted by university officials..

 

[Biff]

All,

As I feared/expected, this thread has tread on ground that just does not belong on this forum. Maybe if everyone wants to discuss guilt, victims, morals and on and on you can do it over on the Cesspool. As this whole affair does has Women's College Basketball issues at it's core, there is lots of ground that can be covered here. But, when it gets to "religion and morals" and passing judgements on people (where very few of the details are even known), eh, that's just not basketball and belongs elsewhere.

 

[CL82]

Young? Not an excuse. Then he was too young to take the job. Stupid?, yes he was, but not an excuse. Consensual? Not when it's a subordinate.

I can't feel badly for him. He's, hopefully, gonna get what he deserves.

I agree that being young and stupid isn't an excuse. Disagree regarding the irrelevancy of the fact that it consensual. That doesn't make what he did acceptable, it just makes it noxious.

Geesh, you guys are a tough crowd. Love the sinner; hate the sin.

 

[sarals24]

I agree that being young and stupid isn't an excuse. Disagree regarding the fact that it consensual. That doesn't make what he did acceptable, it just makes it noxious.

Geesh, you guys are a tough crowd. Love the sinner; hate the sin.

It can't be consensual when one person is in power over the other. By definition. That's why he resigned - if he had just cheated on his wife with with a random person no one would know, or care. (probably)

 

[Goodgood]

I HIGHLY doubt they are related. If Marquette had knowledge of an inappropriate relationship I'm pretty sure they'd be obligated to tell LaTech.

Only if they were asked. That happened before, but not in a case specific or similar to this.

 

[Sargassoc]

Some really good perspective from from STAYING IN BOUNDS — An NCAA Model Policy to Prevent Inappropriate Relationships Between Student-Athletes and Athletics Department Personnel (LINK HERE)

". . . In the context of college athletics, the definition of sexual abuse does not depend on any showing that a sexual relationship was unwelcome; it may include, but is not limited to, conduct that is sexual harassment (as where the athlete did not welcome a sexual relationship with the coach). Sexual abuse includes amorous or sexual relationships between a coach or other supervisory staff and student-athletes, even when these relationships are perceived by both parties to be consensual. Amorous or sexual relationships can be defined as any relationship that includes sexual touching, talking, or flirting; engaging in any form of sex; or otherwise developing a private, personal relationship that goes beyond the context of a staff and student professional relationship. "

 

[sarals24]

Non consensual sex would imply that he raped her. You think she feels that way?

That is not what we mean by nonconsensual. It's a similar theory to when children are molested - sure, they can say yes, but they aren't in a position to say no because they have no power in the situation.

Even if she is his same age, and pursued him, the power balance is not equal and therefore the relationship cannot be considered consensual. She has everything to lose - scholarship, playing time, etc. He holds power over her, similar to a boss at a company with a subordinate. It's unethical to sleep with a subordinate, no matter how much they flirt with you. The power balance is off. That's why universities and workplaces have rules against this.

 

[Tenspro2002]

The nepotism/age angle has really been under-discussed here.

In this era, what coach is hired at the age of 23 to coach a (once-)major D-I women's basketball program? If his name was anything other than "Summitt", would he have even gotten an interview?

 

[sarals24]

The nepotism/age angle has really been under-discussed here.

In this era, what coach is hired at the age of 23 to coach a (once-)major D-I women's basketball program? If his name was anything other than "Summitt", would he have even gotten an interview?

Nope. And I doubt any young coaches will get a chance again after this.

 

[intlzncster]

That is not what we mean by nonconsensual. It's a similar theory to when children are molested - sure, they can say yes, but they aren't in a position to say no because they have no power in the situation.

Then you are just using the term "non consensual" to mean something else, which is conflating terms. 'Abuse of a position of power', sure. But the sex was consensual.

Even if she is his same age, and pursued him, the power balance is not equal and therefore the relationship cannot be considered consensual. She has everything to lose - scholarship, playing time, etc. He holds power over her, similar to a boss at a company with a subordinate. It's unethical to sleep with a subordinate, no matter how much they flirt with you. The power balance is off. That's why universities and workplaces have rules against this

And that's a pretty weak definition for someone who is an adult by law. She is not a child. I mean, with respect to a young kid, your term fits to a tee, as they have not matured, and therefore don't know better. If a college girl doesn't know any better, she's been criminally sheltered. Did Summit have to wipe her arse too?

I deleted my post anyway, given the NCAA bylaws post above. If they spelled it out, they spelled it out. And that's it.

 

[sarals24]

Then you are just using the term "non consensual" to mean something else, which is conflating terms. 'Abuse of a position of power', sure. But the sex was consensual.

And that's a pretty weak definition for someone who is an adult by law. I mean, a young kid? Your definition fits to a tee, as they don't know better. If a college girl doesn't know any better, she's been criminally sheltered. Did Summit have to wipe her arse too?

I deleted my post anyway, given the NCAA bylaws post above. If they spelled it out, they spelled it out. And that's it.

It can't be consensual. Do you really not understand that? Monica Lewinsky did not have consensual sexual relations with Bill Clinton, even if she said yes to him. Even if she was an adult. Because he held all the power (literally). So it wasn't an equal relationship to begin with.

Same with this player. Even if she transferred to be at La Tech. Even if she came on to him. Even if she flirted. It's not the same as a relationship between two peers. Because she stood to lose everything if she stopped the relationship - playing time, her scholarship, etc.

That's why Tyler was forced to resign, and if the school is smart they will do everything in their power to protect this girl, because she could very easily sue.

 

[Plebe]

That is not what we mean by nonconsensual. It's a similar theory to when children are molested - sure, they can say yes, but they aren't in a position to say no because they have no power in the situation.

Even if she is his same age, and pursued him, the power balance is not equal and therefore the relationship cannot be considered consensual. She has everything to lose - scholarship, playing time, etc. He holds power over her, similar to a boss at a company with a subordinate. It's unethical to sleep with a subordinate, no matter how much they flirt with you. The power balance is off. That's why universities and workplaces have rules against this.

Your post is very insightful, but I have a hard time fully embracing the analogy to the sexual abuse of minors. A sexual relationship between an adult and someone who hasn't reached the age of consent is a criminal act, often referred to as statutory rape. Sexual relationships between two adults in a superior-subordinate relationship do not usually constitute a criminal offense, to my knowledge (and please correct me if I'm wrong). Unethical, unjustifiable, and tortious, yes.

 

[intlzncster]

It can't be consensual. Do you really not understand that? Monica Lewinsky did not have consensual sexual relations with Bill Clinton, even if she said yes to him. Even if she was an adult. Because he held all the power (literally). So it wasn't an equal relationship to begin with.

So basically, the girls in question have no free will. OK. You are making the BIG and unfounded assumption that the person in power was holding this over her head. Where are the facts to back that up?

Same with this player. Even if she transferred to be at La Tech. Even if she came on to him. Even if she flirted. It's not the same as a relationship between two peers. Because she stood to lose everything if she stopped the relationship - playing time, her scholarship, etc.

I guess you should make the same assumptions going the other way then. Summit stood to lose his job, career, and family if she ever said anything. She has that threat in her back pocket. He has more to lose than her in fact. You are just looking at one side of it. After all, she could be holding it over his head, effectively entrapping him. It works both ways all the time.

Note, I'm not saying he is without blame. He should have lost his job, etc. But to act like she isn't an active party is turning a blind eye to one side of the whole picture.

 

[sarals24]

I said it's a similar theory. A 16-year-old can say yes all she wants to a 30-year-old, but that doesn't make it consensual.

I never said the relationship was illegal. I said it's not ever going to be fully consensual because of the power imbalance.