What should happen, but probably won't.

[Carl Spackler]

If you strip everyting else aside and look at the schools in the northeast, and factor in the reality of what goes into managing a university athletic departmetn for a major college competing at the top level? And if you really care about students as athletes, and what scheduling does around all the sports.

This what makes the most sense. 10 team conference. Northeast. In alphabetical order

Boston College
Connecticut
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

I can dream.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Never will happen now so we might as well not discuss it.

 

[RioDog]

Thats a kick Northeastern conference. When I think of your dream conference compared to the nonsense we're seeing now, and the abominations we'll probably end up in/with when realignment is finished, its enough to make me cry. Here's to the NEC as it should have been!

 

[Icebear]

Pipe dreams are useless. It isn't happening, but probably should have 25 years ago.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

Pipe dreams are useless. It isn't happening, but probably should have 25 years ago.

The huge irony in all of this is that everyone keeps saying that the Northeastern schools should have banded together years ago to form the true Northeastern football league. You do all realize that if that would have happened, we would still be in the Yankee Conference/Atlantic 10 with Villanova, Northeastern, Georgetown, URI, etc.? If the football schools had banded together even 15 years ago, we would never have been even considered to be a part of the conference and we would have been relegated to the 'minor' D1 level and never had a chance to get to a the BCS leagues.

So in a way...thank God that the Northeastern football schools never had the brains and heart to band together...that is what allowed UConn to catch up to the rest of them and will allow us to included in that power programs going forward!

 

[Icebear]

The huge irony in all of this is that everyone keeps saying that the Northeastern schools should have banded together years ago to form the true Northeastern football league. You do all realize that if that would have happened, we would still be in the Yankee Conference/Atlantic 10 with Villanova, Northeastern, Georgetown, URI, etc.? If the football schools had banded together even 15 years ago, we would never have been even considered to be a part of the conference and we would have been relegated to the 'minor' D1 level and never had a chance to get to a the BCS leagues.

So in a way...thank God that the Northeastern football schools never had the brains and heart to band together...that is what allowed UConn to catch up to the rest of them and will allow us to included in that power programs going forward!

There is a difference between then and now. But all other things being equal that is the conference we would belong in today although I understand your historical argument. It is possible we might have entered that conference as a flesh it out team back then. Fact is it didn't happen and guessing what might have been is impossible but football would have been stronger in the Northeast if that conference had emerged.

 

[SubbaBub]

I would sign for it, but the reason conferences stretch the map is for recruiting and tv sets. TV would be great, but without Florida in the footprint could this conference compete nationally?

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[Carl Spackler]

The huge irony in all of this is that everyone keeps saying that the Northeastern schools should have banded together years ago to form the true Northeastern football league. You do all realize that if that would have happened, we would still be in the Yankee Conference/Atlantic 10 with Villanova, Northeastern, Georgetown, URI, etc.? If the football schools had banded together even 15 years ago, we would never have been even considered to be a part of the conference and we would have been relegated to the 'minor' D1 level and never had a chance to get to a the BCS leagues.

So in a way...thank God that the Northeastern football schools never had the brains and heart to band together...that is what allowed UConn to catch up to the rest of them and will allow us to included in that power programs going forward!

Very good points. In 1985, when the pitt/penn state thing was over for good, Jim Calhoun was still coaching at Northeastern. UConn basketball was still coached by Dom Perno. UConn football was coached by a Joe Paterno product - Tom Jackson, and would have looked very much to Penn St, Pitt, Syracuse and BC much like adding UMass does to the big east now.

In perspecitve....but in reality?

Paterno wanted an all sports conference, and all teams in the big east would've been included to play football as long as they met 1-A requirements, and therein is the difference. When you want an all sports conference, the reasons around it are much different than adding single sports.

We've been real close to having that all sports conference in the northeast for the last 20 years, but the catholic colleges have muddled it up, and the valueable assets in such a leage have been moving elsewhere, starting with penn state 25 years ago.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

Paterno wanted an all sports conference, and all teams in the big east would've been included to play football as long as they met 1-A requirements, and therein is the difference. When you want an all sports conference, the reasons around it are much different than adding single sports.

.

I am pretty sure that that is false. Paterno wanted to form a new conference with the NE football powers. UConn would not have been a part of it. If PSU had joined the BE, then per everyone's stance that the football teams should have had the balls to split from the basketball schools...we would have been in the 'have not' conference, not the 'football' conference.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Paterno was AD and coach back then. He tried to start his own league, but couldn't get it up and running. I'm not going into the specifcs of the 1-A, 1-AA split, and you'll have to dig real deep to find a good reference, but Paterno, a few years earlier in hte late 1970s, had a big voice in making the 1-A, 1-AA split tied to stadium seating capacity for football, and the motivation behind was the lifeblood of any football program - recruiting. paterno was having a hard time recruiting to state college in PA. Tying stadium seating capacity to 1-A status removed any recruiting competition for the biggest and strongest football players and smartest, to all but Syracuse, Penn St, and Boston College, and Yale in the northeast. Yale hung on to 1-A status until 1982. Read Carm Cozza's book.

It was only a few years after that all happened, in 1985,when Paterno was still AD and the rest of the Penn St sports besides football were struggling, that he realized he made a mistake. Notre Dame, to this day, has been able to hang on to independance, becasue of the big east as a home for their non-football sprorts since 1995.

Paterno wanted to get a northeastern all sports league going. The big east was brand new and included the two major football programs left after the 1-A, 1-AA split. Connecticut, Villanova and Georgetown were the other members that had a football program. UConn was coached by a former paterno player BTW at the time.

If penn st had come in the league, in 1985. All three programs would have had the opportunity to upgrade to 1-A. Andy Talley - another head coach that learned the game in CT, had just taken over the villanova program and joined the yankee conference which was football only at that time and included uconn.

Had penn state been admitted in 1985, and the three programs upgraded.

Penn State
Syracuse
Boston College
Villanova
UConn
Georgetown
Pittsburgh

Is what big east football would have looked like in the late 1980s, around the time that Jim Calhoun came to UConn.

Penn state basketball wasn't good enough though.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Because of the history of villanova football, I was not opposed to the upgrade opportunity whatsoever. I thought it was a great idea...what a year and half ago now?

What became abundantly clear though, as time wore on, is that the upgrade idea had nothing to do with actually understanding the value of what's going on, but preserving the basketball side of things in the big east, and it was bungled all along.

I'm still not against the idea of villanova upgrading, as long as it's done right.

we did the upgrade right, and we've got the goods now, it's up to our university leadership to find a way to preserve it.

 

[gars44]

If you strip everyting else aside and look at the schools in the northeast, and factor in the reality of what goes into managing a university athletic departmetn for a major college competing at the top level? And if you really care about students as athletes, and what scheduling does around all the sports.

This what makes the most sense. 10 team conference. Northeast. In alphabetical order

Boston College
Connecticut
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

I can dream.

Why post this? Bong talk?

 

[Carl Spackler]

How about this?

UConn
TCU
West Virginia
Rutgers
Cincinatti
Louisville
South Florida
Villanova
Navy
Temple

That's a 10 team conference all sports conference, that if able to retain the existing Big East BCS bid - has a real good fighting chance.

I'd do anything right now for the big east to finally split and go away.

In the past 25 years, the big east conference has slowly caused nearly every valueable asset in the sport that drives the most money in intercollegiate athletics - football - out of the northeast.

It's got to stop.

 

[BarkingDog]

Paterno was AD and coach back then. He tried to start his own league, but couldn't get it up and running. I'm not going into the specifcs of the 1-A, 1-AA split, and you'll have to dig real deep to find a good reference, but Paterno, a few years earlier in hte late 1970s, had a big voice in making the 1-A, 1-AA split tied to stadium seating capacity for football, and the motivation behind was the lifeblood of any football program - recruiting. paterno was having a hard time recruiting to state college in PA. Tying stadium seating capacity to 1-A status removed any recruiting competition for the biggest and strongest football players and smartest, to all but Syracuse, Penn St, and Boston College, and Yale in the northeast. Yale hung on to 1-A status until 1982. Read Carm Cozza's book.

It was only a few years after that all happened, in 1985,when Paterno was still AD and the rest of the Penn St sports besides football were struggling, that he realized he made a mistake. Notre Dame, to this day, has been able to hang on to independance, becasue of the big east as a home for their non-football sprorts since 1995.

Paterno wanted to get a northeastern all sports league going. The big east was brand new and included the two major football programs left after the 1-A, 1-AA split. Connecticut, Villanova and Georgetown were the other members that had a football program. UConn was coached by a former paterno player BTW at the time.

If penn st had come in the league, in 1985. All three programs would have had the opportunity to upgrade to 1-A. Andy Talley - another head coach that learned the game in CT, had just taken over the villanova program and joined the yankee conference which was football only at that time and included uconn.

Had penn state been admitted in 1985, and the three programs upgraded.

Penn State
Syracuse
Boston College
Villanova
UConn
Georgetown
Pittsburgh

Is what big east football would have looked like in the late 1980s, around the time that Jim Calhoun came to UConn.

Penn state basketball wasn't good enough though.

Man, that would have been a good place to start. And correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Rollie Massimino who blocked Penn State at that time?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Massimino was Villanova b-ball coach at the time. Whether or not he was involved in blocking Penn State from joining the big east? I have no idea. as for the formation of an all sports, my memory tends to get foggy a little bit these days, but I think that the big east already was all sports except football by 1983 or so. it was only basketball in the beginning, and didn't include football until 1991, which was the same year that the idea of following through with upgrading to 1-A status at UConn started getting floating around. It got killed because an on campus stadium was too big of an issue for the area, but then came back a few years later when the ideas for Rentschler became reality.

 

[gars44]

How about this?

UConn
TCU
West Virginia
Rutgers
Cincinatti
Louisville
South Florida
Villanova
Navy
Temple

That's a 10 team conference all sports conference, that if able to retain the existing Big East BCS bid - has a real good fighting chance.

I'd do anything right now for the big east to finally split and go away.

In the past 25 years, the big east conference has slowly caused nearly every valueable asset in the sport that drives the most money in intercollegiate athletics - football - out of the northeast.

It's got to stop.

Yep. That works for me, but I'd like to get more political/geographical support. Call me paranoid, if you must. I'd add ECU, Memphis and UCF to the mix. If you take them, I'll (ugh!) go with Villanova.

 

[weyuo]

So what's stopping some forward thinking school presidents from getting together and forming the "Northern Conference"? Brand new to include:

-UConn
-Pitt
-Syracuse
-BC
-Penn St
-Maryland
-W. Virginia
-Louisville
-Cincy
-Notre Dame
-Navy
-Rutgers

Leave the door open for Buffalo, UMass, Delaware, Villanova, Temple and Army in case they can get their football cranking at a 1A level. Tell them the invite is there when they are ready.
Can't see why ESPN wouldn't want to cover that conference(and poney up some decent cash). Can't see why that conference couldn't take over MSG for it's B-Ball tourney.
Call it the Northern Conference or North Conference or NASC(northern all sports conference) or whatever sounds catchy. Sure would save some travel expenses for the schools and the fans alike. People might whine about recruiting in TX and Fla but those kids watch TV too and if ND is pounding some Pac 12 team and on the next channel WVU is pummeling an SEC team they will come. It would definitely be at worst the 3rd best football conference.

Just seems to me, with all the shuffling going on, maybe some school presidents could band together and pull something like that off. You got to admit it would be a kick football and basketball conference.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The thing that kills me, is at the time, then AD @ UConn John Toner, who had a big part in making the 1-A, 1-AA thing happen, was sure of Penn State getting into the Big East. We were ready to go. The vote was expected to get Penn State int.

He got blindsided, and to this day, I don't know who it was.

 

[gars44]

It is really beautiful, wishful thinking. It has been dreamed about a million times on this board. (I'm not criticizing, we really like thinking this). It would be nice. But unfortunately, not to be. So, wake up!

 

[ScottVib]

Paterno wanted to get a northeastern all sports league going. The big east was brand new and included the two major football programs left after the 1-A, 1-AA split. Connecticut, Villanova and Georgetown were the other members that had a football program. UConn was coached by a former paterno player BTW at the time.

A couple factual corrections.

At the time St. John's also played football. They like Georgetown both played at the Division III level at the time (St. John's dropped football in 2002). The NCAA changed it's rules in the early-mid 90's to require all schools classified Division I to play all sports at the Divsion I level. This forced both St. John's and Georgetown into 1-AA but neither school offered football scholarships. This has lead Georgetown to its ongoing football home in the Patriot league and St. John's into the NEC before it dropped the program for Title IX reasons. (Incidentally Seton Hall dropped football in 1981 just about the same time the whole Penn State debate was really getting into gear (remember (per Crouthamel's Big East Conference history) Rutgers was initially offered Seton Hall's spot in the Big East, but they declined to remain aligned with Penn State).)

Neither Georgetown nor St. John's were going to be in any shape to upgrade or offer scholarships to get to the 1-A level.

Villanova which had remained in 1-A after the split had actually dropped its football team after the 1980 season. In 1985 (after alumni pressure) Villanova was in its first year of restarting the program, now at the 1-AA level (they weren't eligible to win Yankee Conference titles until 1988).

In truth leading into the 1985 season UConn was possibly the only school that wasn't already at the major college level that could have reasonably upgraded, but there was little motivation for it at the time.

 

[Waquoit]

If all that football stuff happened 25 years ago UConn would be in the A-10 today. And that would have been fine, I still would have been going to all the games.

 

[UCONNFAN179]

Regarding

Boston College
Connecticut
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

You say, I can dream... people are saying it'll never happen now, etc.

Well it's not just a dream...

If you take out Penn St and WVir, that remaining group is the most likely scenario of what will happen as the ACC North.

With Duke, UNC, NC St, WFor, Clem, GTech, FSU and Mia as the ACC South.

What's wrong with that?

 

[gabect]

This thread makes me want to.... damn... where's the headbanging emoticon. It's gone!

 

[ctchamps]

Nice historical presentation.

 

[toppencil]

If you strip everyting else aside and look at the schools in the northeast, and factor in the reality of what goes into managing a university athletic departmetn for a major college competing at the top level? And if you really care about students as athletes, and what scheduling does around all the sports.

This what makes the most sense. 10 team conference. Northeast. In alphabetical order

Boston College
Connecticut
Maryland
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

I can dream.

Perhaps in the future, if travel costs become a bigger factor, something like this could happen. It would require someone in charge of all college football. Right now that's not possible.