We are still #4

[Pudge]

Top 16 college basketball programs since 2000: Duke or UNC at the top?

PERSPECTIVE: Before you whine once again about 7 & 10 in mid January and think Jay Wright or Rick Pitino never had down years like Ollie, gain a little perspective on where we sit in the arc of modern college hoop (pretty much since Bird & Magic). (Wright won 13 only a few years ago) It is quite a lofty perch and look at the neighborhood. Ollie's transition is getting a little rocky; I would say that can directly be explained by the recruiting which saw bandaids placed on the roster in a few spots with Grad Transfers. Having 11 kids lined up from Adams-Enoch-Larrier to the incoming 3 has not really been our path since 2009 when we lost Oriakhi/Smith and had sanctions. Those 11 kids have to develop ... and they are. Adams looks like he is blossoming.

Push back: Why didn't Purvis, Brimah, Facey develop? They did. My opinion is that Purvis was fully formed upon arrival. He is a pleasure to have on your Team; but, his physical upside wasn't great. He probably was an incredible 7th grade hooper. The inverse is Facey, who never touched a ball at that age and slow slow cooked to where he actually will play great ball through his mid 20s. Compare to Hilton units? Sure ... unfortunately he is going to reach peak a few years beyond UConn.

As you look at the landscape, this UConn program - like Wisconsin or Villanova - needs steady development of the entire roster. Every kid. Because we may swing for Diallo's, but we aren't gonna land many with Calipari & UNC & Duke circling. We still can win at an elite level. We need to get back to consistently high achievement - that happens when you develop all your guys. I think Ollie can recruit an entire roster better than Jim Calhoun. The AAC conference, by the way, is coming up nicely with Dawkins, Sampson, Tubby and SMU rising despite the Larry Brown typical exit. We are going to be tested.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Top 16 college basketball programs since 2000: Duke or UNC at the top?

PERSPECTIVE: Before you whine once again about 7 & 10 in mid January and think Jay Wright or Rick Pitino never had down years like Ollie, gain a little perspective on where we sit in the arc of modern college hoop (pretty much since Bird & Magic). (Wright won 13 only a few years ago) It is quite a lofty perch and look at the neighborhood. Ollie's transition is getting a little rocky; I would say that can directly be explained by the recruiting which saw bandaids placed on the roster in a few spots with Grad Transfers. Having 11 kids lined up from Adams-Enoch-Larrier to the incoming 3 has not really been our path since 2009 when we lost Oriakhi/Smith and had sanctions. Those 11 kids have to develop ... and they are. Adams looks like he is blossoming.

Push back: Why didn't Purvis, Brimah, Facey develop? They did. My opinion is that Purvis was fully formed upon arrival. He is a pleasure to have on your Team; but, his physical upside wasn't great. He probably was an incredible 7th grade hooper. The inverse is Facey, who never touched a ball at that age and slow slow cooked to where he actually will play great ball through his mid 20s. Compare to Hilton units? Sure ... unfortunately he is going to reach peak a few years beyond UConn.

As you look at the landscape, this UConn program - like Wisconsin or Villanova - needs steady development of the entire roster. Every kid. Because we may swing for Diallo's, but we aren't gonna land many with Calipari & UNC & Duke circling. We still can win at an elite level. We need to get back to consistently high achievement - that happens when you develop all your guys. I think Ollie can recruit an entire roster better than Jim Calhoun. The AAC conference, by the way, is coming up nicely with Dawkins, Sampson, Tubby and SMU rising despite the Larry Brown typical exit. We are going to be tested.

Bless you for you continued upbeat view and optimism. I don't entirely share it, but enough of it rubs off.

 

[gtcam]

Thanks Pudge
Some of the rankings make little sense
Cuse and Ohio State are way too high
Nova and Zaga are way too low
Yes its since 2000 but IMO

 

[tykurez]

The problem with the sanctions was two fold: a post-season ban first and scholarship reductions/recruiting limitations second. The first is what most people see and deal with. You get thru that year and figure it's all behind them. For the more hardcore fan (but actually, not ... considering some of the stuff on this board) it's easy to see that it's the latter part of the sanctions that really take the toll. We're only just clawing our way out from underneath them.

 

[pj]

Look, both Duke and UConn have 4 final fours and 3 championships since 2000.

What separates us and them? (1) An iconic coach who's been there a long time -- but Ollie only needs time to get there; and (2) affiliation with a conference that gets a lot of exposure (UConn still gets lots of exposure now, but it's not likely the AAC will continue to get the play on ESPN it does in this contract, and ESPN plays up the programs which they are airing).

With a little luck in conference realignment and continued growth and UConn-loyalty from KO, plus the retirement of the older generation of coaches (K, Calipari, Roy Williams, Pitino, Boeheim) the #1 spot will be ours. Competition from Bill Self/Kansas, Sean Miller/Arizona, Jay Wright/Villanova, a few others.

 

[DefenseBB]

Sanctions are tough but let's be honest, the AAC is not the Big East of old, Ollie's trend is down, not up. The type of recruits are not elite and their style is suffering from lack of intensity. Dare I say this is starting to resemble Tenn women's Basketball with a hand picked successor who is a nice person but overmatched in leading a former storied program? His NC with Calhouns recruits will only last a bit longer before he needs to be held accountable. His current competition is not that of what Pitino or Coach K have to deal with during "down years"...

 

[RipCity]

Glad to see us ahead of Kentucky. Might take another Derrick Rose scandal to keep that up, but with Coach Cal you can't rule that out.

 

[PAHusky]

Look, both Duke and UConn have 4 final fours and 3 championships since 2000.

What separates us and them? (1) An iconic coach who's been there a long time -- but Ollie only needs time to get there; and (2) affiliation with a conference that gets a lot of exposure (UConn still gets lots of exposure now, but it's not likely the AAC will continue to get the play on ESPN it does in this contract, and ESPN plays up the programs which they are airing).

With a little luck in conference realignment and continued growth and UConn-loyalty from KO, plus the retirement of the older generation of coaches (K, Calipari, Roy Williams, Pitino, Boeheim) the #1 spot will be ours. Competition from Bill Self/Kansas, Sean Miller/Arizona, Jay Wright/Villanova, a few others.

I'm loathe to give Dook any credit at all, but a little more than just that separates us from them as a program. On top of what you listed, their recruiting right now is a tier above ours. KO is great at recruiting, but Duke is one of the only schools giving Calamari's club a run for their money yearly. We also don't have the same type of season to season consistency as Duke does. They may have an off season once in awhile, but for the most part they're ranked wire to wire. This obviously overlaps with your point about the conference alignments, but it's a fairly large difference. In a recently historical context, we're even with anyone in terms of championships and the prestige that comes with it, but we do lag behind slightly in recruiting and definitely in terms of creating a stronger national brand by being ranked consistently

 

[gtcam]

Sanctions are tough but let's be honest, the AAC is not the Big East of old, Ollie's trend is down, not up. The type of recruits are not elite and their style is suffering from lack of intensity. Dare I say this is starting to resemble Tenn women's Basketball with a hand picked successor who is a nice person but overmatched in leading a former storied program? His NC with Calhouns recruits will only last a bit longer before he needs to be held accountable. His current competition is not that of what Pitino or Coach K have to deal with during "down years"...

Was KO on JC's staff?
Did he not recruit? Did hot train and practice those recruits?
This crap about doing it with JC's recruits would only hold water IF KO came in from the outside
Dare say what you want but you my friend are WRONG

 

[dennismenace]

Look, both Duke and UConn have 4 final fours and 3 championships since 2000.

What separates us and them? (1) An iconic coach who's been there a long time -- but Ollie only needs time to get there; and (2) affiliation with a conference that gets a lot of exposure (UConn still gets lots of exposure now, but it's not likely the AAC will continue to get the play on ESPN it does in this contract, and ESPN plays up the programs which they are airing).

With a little luck in conference realignment and continued growth and UConn-loyalty from KO, plus the retirement of the older generation of coaches (K, Calipari, Roy Williams, Pitino, Boeheim) the #1 spot will be ours. Competition from Bill Self/Kansas, Sean Miller/Arizona, Jay Wright/Villanova, a few others.

Good post. More than a little luck, though, on conference realignment. Such an uphill battle recruiting without that and the $. Hoping Edsall can have an impact in FB. No way to go but up there. Would be nice to see FB and BB making a good comeback starting over the next two years.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Nice post Pudge. I think what sometimes gets lost in all of this is that Jim Calhoun was arguably the greatest college basketball coach of all time. You could pick nearly every single college coach today and they wouldn't stack up with him.

It was naive and probably a bit cocky to think that a first time head coach would step in and coach and develop talent at anywhere near the level that Calhoun did.

I've certainly been frustrated with KO at times, but I keep thinking back to the fact that Calhoun coached HS hoops then coached at Northeastern for a decade before he even came in. Keep in mind the scrutiny in the 80s for Northeastern and then UConn hoops is nowhere near what it is for UConn hoops since KO took over.

There's a lot that KO can work on, but given our conference situation, it's imperative to have a solid recruiter like KO and he's shown enough aptitude in games to make me think he has a high ceiling. The player development, especially big men, needs to improve, but again this is his 5th season as a coach ever. He'll get better and hopefully he stays at UConn for that ride.

 

[Pudge]

Sanctions are tough but let's be honest, the AAC is not the Big East of old, Ollie's trend is down, not up. The type of recruits are not elite and their style is suffering from lack of intensity. Dare I say this is starting to resemble Tenn women's Basketball with a hand picked successor who is a nice person but overmatched in leading a former storied program? His NC with Calhouns recruits will only last a bit longer before he needs to be held accountable. His current competition is not that of what Pitino or Coach K have to deal with during "down years"...

Crazy

Ollie recruiting - for those of us that have watched this for 25 years - is damn good. He's getting great guards and will get developing wings. In the JC era, we won Donyell Marshall or a Rip Hamilton ONLY as an anomaly. Typically we are pretty straight line with where we always have been since 1990. The trend is NOT down.

Only in your menacing hyperbolic pessimism. Tennessee women?

I see the big issue is US. The fan base. Football as well. We feel entitled. Somehow - mostly the youth in alums students and younger fans - need to energize and pull US to a new platform. Cause WE suck lately in supporting our Blue UConn.

 

[BUConn10]

Oh we are still #4? Thank goodness, now we can rest assured that we were good and stop trying so hard to be elite like many here suggest with their pampering of dumb play.

 

[Pudge]

Oh we are still #4? Thank goodness, now we can rest assured that we were good and stop trying so hard to be elite like many here suggest with their pampering of dumb play.

Knew this was coming ...

 

[BUConn10]

Knew this was coming ...

What did you expect making this post saying "we are still #4" after almost 4 years of taking L's by UConn's standards. You are clearly too busy watching and reminiscing the past and allowing it to mitigate today's failures, a common mindset here not you exclusively.

 

[Pudge]

What did you expect making this post saying "we are still #4" after almost 4 years of taking L's by UConn's standards. You are clearly too busy watching and reminiscing the past and allowing it to mitigate today's failures, a common mindset here not you exclusively.

And ... I think there are too many guys here (pardon me ... If I generalize) that missed how this Program got to its exalted status. And therefore ... they cast a funereal pall over all of us and every game day. My ... There's no joy in Mudville.

Kevin Ollie will be fine. As mentioned above, he is STILL a young coach. Given the right formula ... he can still win big in March. Because, what we found in 2014, is he is exemplary at taking a roster and forming guys into their correct roles. And we are going to have a 27-30 win season again soon. Why? Look at the tried & true UConn form: great guards with talent bred wings. Mix in some post development. We won with Oriakhi. Brimah. We will get better Bigs than those ... with all due respect.

 

[gtcam]

Knew this was coming ...

Yep - surprised it was only one so far because we all know the KO bashers (and bandwagon bashers) out there

 

[August_West]

Sanctions are tough but let's be honest, the AAC is not the Big East of old, Ollie's trend is down, not up. The type of recruits are not elite and their style is suffering from lack of intensity. Dare I say this is starting to resemble Tenn women's Basketball with a hand picked successor who is a nice person but overmatched in leading a former storied program? His NC with Calhouns recruits will only last a bit longer before he needs to be held accountable. His current competition is not that of what Pitino or Coach K have to deal with during "down years"...

Yeah that's what it is.

 

[DefenseBB]

Was KO on JC's staff?
Did he not recruit? Did hot train and practice those recruits?
This crap about doing it with JC's recruits would only hold water IF KO came in from the outside
Dare say what you want but you my friend are WRONG

So then 7-10 in a weak conference is awesome! I was wrong, silly me. Just because you were an assistant doesn't mean you will be a great HC. Again the parallels to Tenn are uncanny...time will tell but as this thread is about whether this program deserves to stay in the upper echelon of MBB programs, evidence is pointing the wrong way. Keep whisking past the grave yard though...

 

[Pudge]

So then 7-10 in a weak conference is awesome! I was wrong, silly me. Just because you were an assistant doesn't mean you will be a great HC. Again the parallels to Tenn are uncanny...time will tell but as this thread is about whether this program deserves to stay in the upper echelon of MBB programs, evidence is pointing the wrong way. Keep whisking past the grave yard though...

It's not.

Regardless of how often you say it ... it simply is a false equivalency. First, the WOMEN'S game is not parallel at all. The best players are not virtually guaranteed to be 4 year fixed roster slots. I am not going bring up injuries as that would be "WHISTLING" past the grave yard.

If you're trying to drag the point to this: We are in danger of falling off the upper echelon. Many of us feel that. But, the contra to that is Ollie has just had three solid recruiting classes in a row in a blatant attempt to re-build. He could have gone for an Andrew White or other grad transfers this past year (as we needed to do last year); I think he firmly went for developing a full roster instead of plugs. He also made the hire of Killings which looks to be a solid addition to the Program. The fears that were expressed in the last 2-4 years still exist; but, I think some are looking better. (like future of competition in conference) And the 7-10 is just a rotten path to here ... but the fight of these guys and development of a few is what you should be cheering. Not whining.

 

[gtcam]

So then 7-10 in a weak conference is awesome! I was wrong, silly me. Just because you were an assistant doesn't mean you will be a great HC. Again the parallels to Tenn are uncanny...time will tell but as this thread is about whether this program deserves to stay in the upper echelon of MBB programs, evidence is pointing the wrong way. Keep whisking past the grave yard though...

Wow you make a statement that KO won a NC with "JC's recruits", I ask sensible questions and you get into a different direction.
Who said 7-10 is awesome?
KO was JC's right hand person (Blaney was a confidant and damn good ay it) so he had recruitment responsibilities.
And pray tell how does one whisk past a cemetery? Are we preparing a recipe for a cake doing so?

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

It's not.

Regardless of how often you say it ... it simply is a false equivalency. First, the WOMEN'S game is not parallel at all. The best players are not virtually guaranteed to be 4 year fixed roster slots. I am not going bring up injuries as that would be "WHISTLING" past the grave yard.

If you're trying to drag the point to this: We are in danger of falling off the upper echelon. Many of us feel that. But, the contra to that is Ollie has just had three solid recruiting classes in a row in a blatant attempt to re-build. He could have gone for an Andrew White or other grad transfers this past year (as we needed to do last year); I think he firmly went for developing a full roster instead of plugs. He also made the hire of Killings which looks to be a solid addition to the Program. The fears that were expressed in the last 2-4 years still exist; but, I think some are looking better. (like future of competition in conference) And the 7-10 is just a rotten path to here ... but the fight of these guys and development of a few is what you should be cheering. Not whining.

Facey's development and Jackson's rapid improvement give me the most hope.

I've never doubted KO's recruiting or ability to lead/ be the face of the program. Complete lack of player development the last 4 years has been the biggest concern me.

But it looks like Jackson is starting to get more of a defined role. Facey has shown tremendous strides this year. Lets hope this continues.

 

[shizzle787]

Ollie is a great recruiter and he is a really good coach out of timeouts. Unfortunately, he is terrible at in game adjustments. For years, he has failed to figure out how to break down a zone. He even recruits the type of player to do it. All he has to do is put a lanky good shooter (Jackson) at the free throw line in the middle of zone to bang in ten jumpers a game. That would open everything up if he doesn't shoot as the defense swarms towards him.

 

[Pudge]

Facey's development and Jackson's rapid improvement give me the most hope.

I've never doubted KO's recruiting or ability to lead/ be the face of the program. Complete lack of player development the last 4 years has been the biggest concern me.

But it looks like Jackson is starting to get more of a defined role. Facey has shown tremendous strides this year. Lets hope this continues.

O c'mon. That is overly harsh.

Giffey? DeAndre Daniels? Boatwright? What happened in 2014 was brilliant ... a HC developing a roster to fit a TEAM into defined roles. I am done with arguing this point and happy to just say ... come back and see me. (in my best Jim Calhoun accent)

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

O c'mon. That is overly harsh.

Giffey? DeAndre Daniels? Boatwright? What happened in 2014 was brilliant ... a HC developing a roster to fit a TEAM into defined roles. I am done with arguing this point and happy to just say ... come back and see me. (in my best Jim Calhoun accent)

True. Forgot about dd and giff. Guess I dont think of them because they started under Jc. Either way the player development has been poor the last 2.5 years. Maybe it's the players and not ko.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Rodney and Brimah are gone.