UConn to Big East May Be Gaining Steam

[BlueMAB]

All of our arguments have some merit. But the reality is various entities are trying to tilt the equations towards themselves while realizing they have to rely on others. And since no one knows the future with absolute certainty a good part of the decision making process is about probabilities for success. Models are changing constantly.

I agree totally, I just lean toward the status quo. With a growing student debt problem, the P5 school presidents would have a hard time standing in front of Congress justifying their non-profit status and ever increasing tuition, against what have been obvious revenue grabs in moving first to BCS and now to P5, and then destroying what's great about the NCAAT.

I'm anything but antitrust expert, but I've seen enough politicians grandstand to believe that the tipping point would be eliminating 200+/- schools from the tournament for an obvious money grab. How else would they justify shutting out schools that clearly deserve to play in the tournament in favor of a winless BCU team.

I do agree that if the P5 thought they could get away with it, and make more money, they would probably try.

No matter where anyone stands on the issue, I've now worked in a winless BCU team into consecutive posts. That should create some cohesion here.

 

[ctchamps]

I agree totally, I just lean toward the status quo. With a growing student debt problem, the P5 school presidents would have a hard time standing in front of Congress justifying their non-profit status and ever increasing tuition, against what have been obvious revenue grabs in moving first to BCS and now to P5, and then destroying what's great about the NCAAT.

I'm anything but antitrust expert, but I've seen enough politicians grandstand to believe that the tipping point would be eliminating 200+/- schools from the tournament for an obvious money grab. How else would they justify shutting out schools that clearly deserve to play in the tournament in favor of a winless BCU team.

I do agree that if the P5 thought they could get away with it, and make more money, they would probably try.

No matter where anyone stands on the issue, I've now worked in a winless BCU team into consecutive posts. That should create some cohesion here.

And for the sake of argument there is a possibility that a combination of entities can take this P5 creation and turn it on it's head. A small group not in the P5 could band together and eliminate all the rules of the NCAA for football and along with a new media player and corporate sponsorship undermine college amateur sports completely. The P5 have clout but don't have a monopoly on money and power. If they push too hard they may get pushback.

Take 16 universities outside the P5. That pie is much smaller than the group in the P5. They have precedence with the "new rules" for the P5. Now they go a few steps further and offer bigger monies to players getting the best products on the field. Quick description cause wife is calling.

 

[bluejaybud]

What's the point of trying to rationalize with you when you have stated several times that you refuse to believe otherwise from your stated beliefs?

fishing for a more convincing argument than the ones that have been presented

 

[7774]

fishing for a more convincing argument than the ones that have been presented

Interesting considering your argument is based solely on things you have made up.

 

[Fishy]

If the P5 ever decided that they were going to pull off of the NCAA and start their own collegiate association complete with their own March basketball tournament, that would instantly become the NCAA tournament.

I'm sure it's been discussed - no more sharing with DII or DIII, no more sharing with mid-majors...even if the overall contract took a hit, they'd still make up the difference by keeping the entire pie.

It would be the end of the ballgame for the Big East and anyone outside the P5 - I say this as a fan of a school currently outside of the P5 and one who has a hell of a lot higher profile than the likes of Creighton. We'd both be driftwood in that scenario - and it is absolutely a possibility.

 

[bluejaybud]

Interesting considering your argument is based solely on things you have made up.

not really, its largely based on the logical thought that the devaluation of a P5 exclusive March Madness tournament is drastic enough to prevent the P5 schools from collectively doing so. They might make more money by excluding everyone else but that tv contract would be so much less, plus if they were to split they risk losing non-profit status which loses them even more money. I'm sure some schools will be for it, but many won't be. Plus, can you imagine the media fallout from doing so? Good luck sifting through that PR nightmare. "What do you have to say about gutting one of the longstanding traditions in college athletics?". Lol no amount of money makes up the amount of negative press the P5 schools would receive for making a move like some of you are suggesting.

You avoid this problem by including the BE and the A-10 and MWC + the best from the MVC and MAC in this conversation. Again, as a longtime supporter of college basketball, I would find a Big East + best of the G5 or whatever tournament more compelling than a tournament that features first round matchups between schools like Rutgers and Utah. Many would agree with me, I am sure. And not just my buddies who are supporters of Big East programs. Maybe I'm old school in my way of thinking. I will leave my arguments at this and bookmark this thread, we'll see who is right in 25 years when the current tournament contract expires.

 

[upstater]

not really, its largely based on the logical thought that the devaluation of a P5 exclusive March Madness tournament is drastic enough to prevent the P5 schools from collectively doing so. They might make more money by excluding everyone else but that tv contract would be so much less, plus if they were to split they risk losing non-profit status which loses them even more money. I'm sure some schools will be for it, but many won't be. Plus, can you imagine the media fallout from doing so? Good luck sifting through that PR nightmare. "What do you have to say about gutting one of the longstanding traditions in college athletics?". Lol no amount of money makes up the amount of negative press the P5 schools would receive for making a move like some of you are suggesting.

You avoid this problem by including the BE and the A-10 and MWC + the best from the MVC and MAC in this conversation. Again, as a longtime supporter of college basketball, I would find a Big East + best of the G5 or whatever tournament more compelling than a tournament that features first round matchups between schools like Rutgers and Utah. Many would agree with me, I am sure. And not just my buddies who are supporters of Big East programs. Maybe I'm old school in my way of thinking. I will leave my arguments at this and bookmark this thread, we'll see who is right in 25 years when the current tournament contract expires.

Right now, the NCAA makes $1.1B on the tournament a year. They distribute $400m to D1, D2, D3 schools.

Thousands of schools. No school makes more than $1m off the tournament.

Say the interest in a P5 dwindled by half. $550m. But it is distributed to 64 schools!!!!

 

[uconnfan68]

If the P5 ever decided that they were going to pull off of the NCAA and start their own collegiate association complete with their own March basketball tournament, that would instantly become the NCAA tournament.

I'm sure it's been discussed - no more sharing with DII or DIII, no more sharing with mid-majors...even if the overall contract took a hit, they'd still make up the difference by keeping the entire pie.

It would be the end of the ballgame for the Big East and anyone outside the P5 - I say this as a fan of a school currently outside of the P5 and one who has a hell of a lot higher profile than the likes of Creighton. We'd both be driftwood in that scenario - and it is absolutely a possibility.

Might work for them for a few months, then the whole thkng collapses under the weight of lawsuits.

 

[Fishy]

Might work for them for a few months, then the whole thkng collapses under the weight of lawsuits.

People keep thinking lawsuits or congress or the Justice League are all going to come rolling in to bail out the little guy....

It's not happening.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Based on some Title IX claim, wait 'til the Junior League files a lawsuit with Blumenthal. That'll make all of the difference ...

 

[CL82]

People keep thinking lawsuits or congress or the Justice League are all going to come rolling in to bail out the little guy....

It's not happening.

Avengers?

 

[AZHuskiePop]

If the P5 ever decided that they were going to pull off of the NCAA and start their own collegiate association complete with their own March basketball tournament, that would instantly become the NCAA tournament.

I'm sure it's been discussed - no more sharing with DII or DIII, no more sharing with mid-majors...even if the overall contract took a hit, they'd still make up the difference by keeping the entire pie.

It would be the end of the ballgame for the Big East and anyone outside the P5 - I say this as a fan of a school currently outside of the P5 and one who has a hell of a lot higher profile than the likes of Creighton. We'd both be driftwood in that scenario - and it is absolutely a possibility.

Right now, the NCAA makes $1.1B on the tournament a year. They distribute $400m to D1, D2, D3 schools
The amounts are progressively smaller to each div and the money from BB finances the championship games of many non revenue sports.
This decision will be made by university presidents not AD's and a huge amount of the money goes to academic purposes.
The P5 conferences get an inflated participation amount now .
If your in the state of Ohio it's one thing to grant OSU a football monopoly
But screwing over Cinn,Xavier,Dayton, and all the other Ohio Schools in BB might not play quite as well at the state capital. Especially when they ask why Ind has three representatives and Ohio only one.

 

[Fishy]

Avengers?

I have no idea.

It's what happens when someone who doesn't watch comic book movies tries to make a comic book reference based on a 35-year old memory of some Saturday morning superhero cartoon.

It's the place where that Batman, Superman, Spider-Man and whoever the underwater guy was used to have their little pow-wows.

 

[80shusky]

I have no idea.

It's what happens when someone who doesn't watch comic book movies tries to make a comic book reference based on a 35-year old memory of some Saturday morning superhero cartoon.

It's the place where that Batman, Superman, Spider-Man and whoever the underwater guy was used to have their little pow-wows.

That was Aquaman, and he could swim like superfast. I used to have a tub action figure.... dude he's fast....blows bubbles. Fast. Stuff like that.

 

[Fishy]

He was always such a limited superhero.

He'd be like, guys, how do I help?!

And Batman would go, ah, we'll let you know if any supervillians are in the shipping lanes, I guess.

Then he'd just tread water for the rest of the episode.

 

[David 76]

Why do people assume a winless BCU gets into a P-5 tournament? They can make it a 32 team tournament.
They could also invite a number of G-5 schools into their tourney.
The point is, do you want to be on the outside looking in if this can happen? In my experience, power structures do whatever they can to maximise profits, regardless of initial promises and intentions.

 

[storrsroars]

Based on some Title IX claim, wait 'til the Junior League files a lawsuit with Blumenthal. That'll make all of the difference ...

We all know that for CR purposes, women's hoops doesn't matter. But I'd love to see how the P5 would market the women's tourney w/o UConn in it. IMO, it would pretty much be the end of women's hoops (and by extension, the WNBA).

And if they decided the women's tourney is fine as is, that would be some incredible hypocrisy that would bite them in the ass.

 

[djct1999]

I have a better idea.....Why doesn't Duke and Kentucky break away, play the best out of 151 game series and call the NCAA tournment.

 

[tomtom80]

That was Aquaman, and he could swim like superfast. I used to have a tub action figure.... dude he's fast....blows bubbles. Fast. Stuff like that.

If blowing bubbles makes a "tub action figure" they would have made an entire line of toys after me.

 

[jibsey]

If we look at the best overall conference to be in it's the Big 12 or the B1G right because their football is so much better and that dominates the money? I don't see how the BE is feasible with our football even though the hoop is better for us. Upgrading the AAC by addition to get to a P6 is maybe better, is that possible?

 

[uconnfan68]

People keep thinking lawsuits or congress or the Justice League are all going to come rolling in to bail out the little guy....

It's not happening.

How about lack of viewers?

 

[djct1999]

How about lack of viewers?

Great point. Ratings for a P5 only tournament would be abysmal. Without Cinderella, the average viewer won't care at all.

 

[kemba]

There's no real football rivalry, nothing to rally around. A kind of sterile stadium where teams come from thousands of miles away to play games that are more of a rest stop for good teams than meaningful, competitive games in a state completely built on a generally disgruntled hoops fan base that shows up to football games because it's almost out of financial obligation to the basketball team. That's just not a formula for success.

Meh, that's not really true. People go because its fun. When we were relatively good, 35-40 thousand people found it enjoyable. Since PP ran us into the ground its a lot less. Hopefully now that we are moving in the right direction those people will come back.

 

[CL82]

He was always such a limited superhero.

He'd be like, guys, how do I help?!

And Batman would go, ah, we'll let you know if any supervillians are in the shipping lanes, I guess.

Then he'd just tread water for the rest of the episode.

Wasn't he responsible for getting the Justice League sushi?

 

[storrsroars]

If we look at the best overall conference to be in it's the Big 12 or the B1G right because their football is so much better and that dominates the money? I don't see how the BE is feasible with our football even though the hoop is better for us. Upgrading the AAC by addition to get to a P6 is maybe better, is that possible?

Let's say Cincy, Houston, Memphis and BYU go to B12. If the AAC booted the western teams (Tulsa, Tulane, SMU) and replaced them with select teams from CUSA/MAC, at least the travel could be better. The competition would still suck though. It's not like there are teams out there that actually make the AAC better. Question is whether adding the Marshalls, Ohio U's, Toledos and Buffalos make it worse than losing Tulsa/Tulane/SMU.