UCONN Starters for 2016-17 Season are...... | The Boneyard

UCONN Starters for 2016-17 Season are......

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CocoHusky

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Now that tax day has come and gone, we can officially start the debate regarding next Season's Starters.
The usual caveats apply such as baring injury and to be clear we are talking about the 1st regular season game only.
Starters:
G Kia Nurse
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Napheesa Collier
F Gabby Williams
C Natalie Butler
 

Carnac

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Now that tax day has come and gone, we can officially start the debate regarding next Season's Starters.
The usual caveats apply such as baring injury and to be clear we are talking about the 1st regular season game only.
Starters:
G Kia Nurse
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Napheesa Collier
F Gabby Williams
C Natalie Butler

Coco, you got he ball rolling on a topic that we'll be debating all summer until that first (non-exhibition) game in November. One glaring omission from the line-up is Saniya Chong. She has many supporters here in the yard, many of whom will give you chapter and verse why she should start. Let the debate begin.

NOTE: This is a milestone post for me. Its my 1,000 th post. :)
 

CocoHusky

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Coco, you got he ball rolling on a topic that we'll be debating all summer until that first (non-exhibition) game in November. One glaring omission from the line-up is Saniya Chong. She has many supporters here in the yard, many of whom will give you chapter and verse why she should start. Let the debate begin.
NOTE: This is a milestone post for me. Its my 1,000 th post. :)
Congrats on your 1000th. The omission of Saniya was intentional because she struggles at the PG, Dangerfield will need minutes there to develop & Saniya was not going to displace Kia at SG.
 

JoePgh

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Well, of course, it all depends on: (a) injuries; (b) what the freshmen show in practice; (c) what the veterans show in practice.

But my guess with all of those caveats is that Natalie will NOT start, and that one of the triumvirate of [Saniya / Crystal / Molly] will. Most likely that would be Saniya. In other words, Geno will decide to go smaller and faster, somewhat like the Georgetown team of a few years ago that made it to the Sweet 16 (where they lost a very close game to UConn who had Stef and Maya). That Georgetown team didn't have a player over 6-0, but Geno only won the game when he took Stef out and put in Lorin Dixon to have a team that could match Georgetown's pace.

And yes, that does mean that Lou and Napheesa would be playing in the paint on defense next year.

In the year just ended, South Florida had quite a successful season without any post player nearly as effective as either Lou or Napheesa would be in that role.
 
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I agree with the starters as proposed by CocoHusky for the first game. I do not think it will take long to push Crystal into the mix for a starting position. Maybe Natalie will turn it around this preseason and become the player most of us would like her to become. I have not seen anything to convince me otherwise to date.
 
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Assuming Geno goes with 3 guards, which he likes to do:

Beginning of season:
PG Kia Nurse
G Saniya Chong
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Gabby Williams
F Napheesa Collier

First off bench: Crystal Dangerfield
Major minutes: Natalie Butler, Kyla Irwin

End of season:
PG Crystal Dangerfield
G Kia Nurse
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Gabby Williams
F Napheesa Collier

First off bench: Natalie Butler
Major minutes: Saniya Chong, Kyla Irwin

(This is dependent on a big leap by Butler in the off-season.)
 

CocoHusky

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Well, of course, it all depends on: (a) injuries; (b) what the freshmen show in practice; (c) what the veterans show in practice.

But my guess with all of those caveats is that Natalie will NOT start, and that one of the triumvirate of [Saniya / Crystal / Molly] will. Most likely that would be Saniya. In other words, Geno will decide to go smaller and faster, somewhat like the Georgetown team of a few years ago that made it to the Sweet 16 (where they lost a very close game to UConn who had Stef and Maya). That Georgetown team didn't have a player over 6-0, but Geno only won the game when he took Stef out and put in Lorin Dixon to have a team that could match Georgetown's pace.

And yes, that does mean that Lou and Napheesa would be playing in the paint on defense next year.

In the year just ended, South Florida had quite a successful season without any post player nearly as effective as either Lou or Napheesa would be in that role.
I was at that game in Philly. Dolson was a young pup and got schooled accordingly.
 

CocoHusky

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Assuming Geno goes with 3 guards, which he likes to do:

Beginning of season:
PG Kia Nurse
G Saniya Chong
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Gabby Williams
F Napheesa Collier

First off bench: Crystal Dangerfield
Major minutes: Natalie Butler, Kyla Irwin

End of season:
PG Crystal Dangerfield
G Kia Nurse
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Gabby Williams
F Napheesa Collier

First off bench: Natalie Butler
Major minutes: Saniya Chong, Kyla Irwin

(This is dependent on a big leap by Butler in the off-season.)
I like your post but dislike your starting team-too small IMO and your first player off the bench ( Crystal) would make them even smaller.
 
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Starters:
G Kia Nurse
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Napheesa Collier
F Gabby Williams
C Natalie Butler
That's my starting lineup too. Except for the dilemma of when/if Dangerfield can no longer be kept off the bench, who does she replace in the starting lineup? If it's Butler, then you have to change the whole offense. I don't see her replacing any of the others. If freshman Dangerfield is strictly a sub at PG, then I don't see Nurse ever sitting long enough for her to get many minutes. I guess subbing for both Nurse at PG and KLS (with Nurse sliding over to the 2) could give her a few minutes at PG.

There are no seniors in this scheme, so same issue the following year. So maybe Butler never starts?
 
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I like your post but dislike your starting team-too small IMO and your first player off the bench ( Crystal) would make them even smaller.

It's a fair point, but I would disagree slightly.

It's actually not that small a starting lineup (though Dangerfield makes it smaller): 6'0'', 5'8'', 6'3'', 6'0'' (can jump out gym), 6'2'' (long wingspan). UConn will only play a few teams next year with more size.

This is 2016 though, and even WCBB has gotten to the point where teams with true centers don't rule the landscape. Athleticism (and/or great positional sense and coaching: see Tuck against Coates) can trump pure size. Stretch 4s are more effective in most scenarios than pure 5s, and teams with 2 Gs/2 Ws/1 F 0r 2 Gs/1 W/2 Fs might become even common in the next few years.
 

CocoHusky

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That's my starting lineup too. Except for the dilemma of when/if Dangerfield can no longer be kept off the bench, who does she replace in the starting lineup? If it's Butler, then you have to change the whole offense. I don't see her replacing any of the others. If freshman Dangerfield is strictly a sub at PG, then I don't see Nurse ever sitting long enough for her to get many minutes. I guess subbing for both Nurse at PG and KLS (with Nurse sliding over to the 2) could give her a few minutes at PG.

There are no seniors in this scheme, so same issue the following year. So maybe Butler never starts?
If and when Dangerfield is ready IMO it will be Collier that comes out of the starting lineup and assume the role of 6th man like Gabby played for 2 years.
 

CocoHusky

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It's a fair point, but I would disagree slightly.

It's actually not that small a starting lineup (though Dangerfield makes it smaller): 6'0'', 5'8'', 6'3'', 6'0'' (can jump out gym), 6'2'' (long wingspan). UConn will only play a few teams next year with more size.

This is 2016 though, and even WCBB has gotten to the point where teams with true centers don't rule the landscape. Athleticism (and/or great positional sense and coaching: see Tuck against Coates) can trump pure size. Stretch 4s are more effective in most scenarios than pure 5s, and teams with 2 Gs/2 Ws/1 F 0r 2 Gs/1 W/2 Fs might become even common in the next few years.
Close but not quite, try 6'0'', 5'8'', 6'3'', 5'11'' (can jump out gym), 6'1'' (long wingspan). The game has not changed that much where defensively you want the other team having to finish over size at or near the rim- Butler gives you that at 6'5".
 
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Close but not quite, try 6'0'', 5'8'', 6'3'', 5'11'' (can jump out gym), 6'1'' (long wingspan). The game has not changed that much where defensively you want the other team having to finish over size at or near the rim- Butler gives you that at 6'5".

My mistake on the actual heights.

Size/bulk in initial bodying-up/positioning perhaps, but have you seen anything from Butler that shows her ability to challenge an opposing player at the rim is superior to Collier or Williams? Because I haven't.
 

CocoHusky

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My mistake on the actual heights.

Size/bulk in initial bodying-up/positioning perhaps, but have you seen anything from Butler that shows her ability to challenge an opposing player at the rim is superior to Collier or Williams? Because I haven't.
Very fair point-Gabby and Nephessa can jump as high as Natalie is tall. Natalie in her limited minutes has shown a tendency to be a little foul prone. I am counting on improvement from Natalie and I believe it was @sluconn that said "Butler is a very large human being"- if she uses that frame appropriately-to carve out space- she will get a fair amount of rebounds that Gabby and Napheesa would never get to.
 
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: G Kia Nurse G Katie Lou Samuelson F Napheesa Collier F Gabby Williams C Natalie Butler
I agree completely that this is the team that tips off the first game. I think the first person in may be Kyla (for Natalie). I see you're making Napheesa 6th man after Crystal works her way in, CocoHusky. I think that depends on Natalie/Kyla underneath; otherwise, we've very short on the boards.

Most all of us understand that Natalie IS the unknown factor here. Is she can be 75% of Stef, we're okay. Otherwise....
 
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Somebody help me out. For instance Natalie just finished her 3rd year of college. After next season, she should be graduating. She will have another year of eligibility, but why come back if you have your degree? Why did Madison Cable from ND return? Had she not graduated?
From my perspective, at the end of four years, you graduate, get drafted, or start a career. What is the benefit to the student athlete, who was red-shirted to come back and play that fifth year. I don't understand, unless the college work was not completed in four years.
 
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Somebody help me out. For instance Natalie just finished her 3rd year of college. After next season, she should be graduating. She will have another year of eligibility, but why come back if you have your degree? Why did Madison Cable from ND return? Had she not graduated? From my perspective, at the end of four years, you graduate, get drafted, or start a career. What is the benefit to the student athlete, who was red-shirted to come back and play that fifth year. I don't understand, unless the college work was not completed in four years.
why do fools fall in love? why do birds sing?
Because they love it! Natalie isn't getting drafted high after 16/17 (unlike Morgan); her best chance is to continue to develop. And, if she doesn't have a pro career, she's giving up the opportunity to play a final year. Why finish college in only 4 years? there's plenty of new stuff to learn in the 5th, and 6th, and 7th, etc. College is good!
 

CocoHusky

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Somebody help me out. For instance Natalie just finished her 3rd year of college. After next season, she should be graduating. She will have another year of eligibility, but why come back if you have your degree? Why did Madison Cable from ND return? Had she not graduated?
From my perspective, at the end of four years, you graduate, get drafted, or start a career. What is the benefit to the student athlete, who was red-shirted to come back and play that fifth year. I don't understand, unless the college work was not completed in four years.
I going to try and help you out. WNBA draft is 3 rounds with 12 teams. That's 36 players/year- you with me so far? That means there are quite a few very good players that might have played at UCONN or even ND that will not get drafted. There is always basketball overseas and such but let's pretend you enjoy the college life and getting a masters degree might help you out in case you were not one of the 36 in the thing call the real world.
Can I ask you a question what does this have to do with Next year's starters?
 
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Very fair point-Gabby and Nephessa can jump as high as Natalie is tall. Natalie in her limited minutes has shown a tendency to be a little foul prone. I am counting on improvement from Natalie and I believe it was @sluconn that said "Butler is a very large human being"- if she uses that frame appropriately-to carve out space- she will get a fair amount of rebounds that Gabby and Napheesa would never get to.

I hope so. If there is significant improvement from Butler (say, Dolson-esque), then all bets are off (i.e. UConn could win their 12th).
 

JoePgh

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Athleticism (and/or great positional sense and coaching: see Tuck against Coates) can trump pure size.
Ahh, let's keep politics out of this discussion of whether size matters.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it wouldn't be desirable (all else being equal) to have a fast, agile center who is 6-4 or 6-5. However, looking at UConn's roster for next year, I'm failing to see Brittney Griner, Tina Charles, Candace Parker, or Breanna Stewart. I don't even see Stef Dolson, Kiah Stokes, or Azura Stevens.

So the question becomes (since all else isn't equal) whether it is a smart move to have a "sizeable human being" on the floor even if she can't run or jump well enough to keep up with the other four players, seems foul-prone, and forces the team to play a zone defense to minimize the impact of her immobility -- just for the sake of size. Or is it a better move (recognizing plusses and minuses) to give up some size to have five mobile players who may get a few less rebounds and blocks, but can run circles around teams that are relying on one or two Alaina Coates / Courtney Paris / Danielle Adams / Mercedes Russell types to give them an inside presence?

Will that be a problem when UConn has to play against Turner, Wilson, or Mompremier (or maybe Joyner Holmes) who have the complete package of size, skill, and speed? Yes, UConn will be at a disadvantage in the paint against players like that. They may lose a game or two because of it. Will it mean that games against teams with such players are out of reach? Not at all. They will be competitive games, and UConn (like Georgetown in 2011 or USF in 2016) may be able to get some unexpected wins because of its skill at other positions.

In the WNBA, Phoenix for a few years had a team without a center who was either big or fast. But they won WNBA championships because they had Diana Taurasi, Cappie Pondexter, and Penny Taylor. I remember a game when Mike Thibault was the Sun coach, and he had 7-2 Margo Dydek as his regular center. Margo played most of the games despite having near zero mobility, and (in the days before the defensive 3-second rule) she could stand under the basket with her arms extended and stop any layup attempt. But against Phoenix, Thibault didn't put her in the game for even a single minute. He used his own faster, smaller players, and beat Phoenix that way. That (and the Georgetown game where Stef was basically a useless statue) left me with an indelible impression that an immobile big player not only does not help, but can actually hurt, when you are playing against a small and fast team with skill in every position.
 
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Well, of course, it all depends on: (a) injuries; (b) what the freshmen show in practice; (c) what the veterans show in practice.

But my guess with all of those caveats is that Natalie will NOT start, and that one of the triumvirate of [Saniya / Crystal / Molly] will. Most likely that would be Saniya. In other words, Geno will decide to go smaller and faster, somewhat like the Georgetown team of a few years ago that made it to the Sweet 16 (where they lost a very close game to UConn who had Stef and Maya). That Georgetown team didn't have a player over 6-0, but Geno only won the game when he took Stef out and put in Lorin Dixon to have a team that could match Georgetown's pace.

And yes, that does mean that Lou and Napheesa would be playing in the paint on defense next year.

In the year just ended, South Florida had quite a successful season without any post player nearly as effective as either Lou or Napheesa would be in that role.

I am in awe of the memories of some of our members. Others, me included, not so much.
 
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Assuming Geno goes with 3 guards, which he likes to do:

Beginning of season:
PG Kia Nurse
G Saniya Chong
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Gabby Williams
F Napheesa Collier

First off bench: Crystal Dangerfield
Major minutes: Natalie Butler, Kyla Irwin

End of season:
PG Crystal Dangerfield
G Kia Nurse
G Katie Lou Samuelson
F Gabby Williams
F Napheesa Collier

First off bench: Natalie Butler
Major minutes: Saniya Chong, Kyla Irwin

(This is dependent on a big leap by Butler in the off-season.)
Why are you labeling KLS as guard when there's two guards already? She would be a forward in this scenario, no?
 
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November
Nurse, Chong, KLS, Gabby, Butler
w/ Collier & CD
Ya think Chris still has the stuff to play forward? probably so! But does she have any eligibility left?
 
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