Top 20 performers in first two tournament games

[Bone Dog]

When UConn & Iowa faced off back in November of 2022, Clark scored 25 points. She was 9-25 in FG, 2-11 in 3PT, and 5-7 in FT. I don't doubt that Clark would potentially get more than 20 points if UConn were to play them again, but I wonder if we could still hold her to the same shot %.

For the record, this was also a game where CD alone gave us 15 points off the bench and Iowa's bench alone only contributed 2 points.

I often rewatch this game because it shows so clearly how great Aaliyah is, but also is one of the few head-to-head comparisons we have for two of the premiere players in the game. And Caitlin does not come off well in it. Her line is 25 pts on 9-24 shooting including 2-11 from 3. She also grabbed 7 rebounds and had 6 assists, which shows the breadth of her contribution. Azzi, by contrast, scored 24 pts on 10-19 shooting and 4-10 from 3. The game wouldn't have been remotely close but for the fact that Kate Martin shot 6-6 from 3, which feels rather like a fluke. Without Martin's lucky shooting, this would have been a blowout, and Caitlin's line would have seemed absurd in such a context.

Similarly, Aaliyah held Czinano to 8 pts on 3-7 shooting and 7 rebounds while scoring 20 on 10-16 shooting, 13 rebounds and 6 assists. Dorka was out for this game, so it was just Aaliyah with a little assistance from Ayanna who played 7 minutes.

I call this a head-to-head comparison, though it's between Caitlin and Azzi, not Paige. But I suspect Caitlin's shortfall would have been even worse had it been Paige instead of Azzi. The plain fact is, Paige and/or Azzi are simply better than Caitlin when it comes to getting victories. I really hope we get another head-to-head matchup in the final four this year.

 

[JonathanXIV]

I agree with your assessment. My take on which is better depends on if the refs are calling the game close enough that you get enough foul shots of offset the misses around the basket. To me it seems like CC doesn't get nearly enough foul calls to justify taking the ball into the defense. The way modern BB is called I would take the Paige option of pulling up and taking a 10 footer.

Clark gets plenty of calls. Probably more than anyone else in the college game right now.

 

[MSGRET]

Clark gets plenty of calls. Probably more than anyone else in the college game right now.

She won't get those calls in the WNBA, the refs won't call the jumping into the opposing player a foul.

 

[Skeets]

I can name at least 3 former UConn players that were better than Caitlin Clark when it comes to 3pt shooting. KLS, KML and DT, their averages put CC to shame, if UConn plays Iowa I don't see Clark getting more than 20 points.

Get that #10 out of my face. If they meet, it could happen again.

 

[Cuango]

I’m just gobsmacked that Clark is going to the W! I guess it’s because of Indiana having the first choice but still…. I just can’t see this move being a happy one for her. I guess she is gonna have to face it at some point though, so maybe it doesn’t matter. The BIG3 offer yesterday isn’t going to make her “welcome” any better, that’s for sure!

Hopefully, once she shows them she really does have the goods, (I have every confidence she will) and her team shows they have her back (which I dearly hope will happen) the resentment will fade. Still, it’s hard to understand why she doesn’t stay for her extra year, be safe and happy, bask in the adulation of Iowa fans, and sock away another mil or so before going? I mean, Iowa is still gonna have some decent pieces to put around her. Obviously, she has her reasons though, so I wish her well!

 

[omshanti]

Why would Clark stay another year? The college basketball experience is meant to be four years, not five. Even with the Covid year for a player of her caliber it makes sense to go pro. Paige is coming back because she wants four years at UConn. She missed a full year so it makes sense to stay.

the WNBA is a level up and CC will have to figure it out, like all rookies do. I personally think she will be in for a rude awakening. the defensive presence is there, all of the time. Better get a handle on the pouting about non calls now, it’s going to be a different ball game.

im looking forward to the matchups this weekend. The offensive fire power is there in most games. Star power from other players will be there too. Hope some defenses are up to the task. Good UConn. Hope Paige busts out for forty plus. I

 

[MSGRET]

Why would Clark stay another year? The college basketball experience is meant to be four years, not five. Even with the Covid year for a player of her caliber it makes sense to go pro. Paige is coming back because she wants four years at UConn. She missed a full year so it makes sense to stay.

the WNBA is a level up and CC will have to figure it out, like all rookies do. I personally think she will be in for a rude awakening. the defensive presence is there, all of the time. Better get a handle on the pouting about non calls now, it’s going to be a different ball game.

im looking forward to the matchups this weekend. The offensive fire power is there in most games. Star power from other players will be there too. Hope some defenses are up to the task. Good UConn. Hope Paige busts out for forty plus. I

I believe that Paige is coming back because she wants to be able to be on the floor playing basketball with Azzi. They thought that they would be able to play this year but that didn't happen.

 

[uconnfan68]

Kaleena’s stats were wow! considering how many shots she made. She was an automatic bucket from the perimeter

Really sweet shooting stroke. Always surprised when she missed.

 

[azfan]

I would take that bet. As much as Clark has the ball in her hand and as many shots as she tends to take, it is almost a given that she will score more than 20 points whether she is effective or not.

As would anyone!!!!!!! Even money I would cash in my retirement, mortgage my home, and go to loan sharks.

 

[azfan]

I often rewatch this game because it shows so clearly how great Aaliyah is, but also is one of the few head-to-head comparisons we have for two of the premiere players in the game. And Caitlin does not come off well in it. Her line is 25 pts on 9-24 shooting including 2-11 from 3. She also grabbed 7 rebounds and had 6 assists, which shows the breadth of her contribution. Azzi, by contrast, scored 24 pts on 10-19 shooting and 4-10 from 3. The game wouldn't have been remotely close but for the fact that Kate Martin shot 6-6 from 3, which feels rather like a fluke. Without Martin's lucky shooting, this would have been a blowout, and Caitlin's line would have seemed absurd in such a context.

Similarly, Aaliyah held Czinano to 8 pts on 3-7 shooting and 7 rebounds while scoring 20 on 10-16 shooting, 13 rebounds and 6 assists. Dorka was out for this game, so it was just Aaliyah with a little assistance from Ayanna who played 7 minutes.

I call this a head-to-head comparison, though it's between Caitlin and Azzi, not Paige. But I suspect Caitlin's shortfall would have been even worse had it been Paige instead of Azzi. The plain fact is, Paige and/or Azzi are simply better than Caitlin when it comes to getting victories. I really hope we get another head-to-head matchup in the final four this year.

The past is .........

 

[Bone Dog]

The past is .........

… often indicative of the future

 

[azfan]

… often indicative of the future

Since 2021 Clark has had the opportunity to develop, evolve, and improve her game as she's played considerably more than Paige and Aziz.

Clark and to a lesser extent Paige have demonstrated exceptional prowess at the collegiate level. Injuries of course have prevented Azzi from demonstrating a consistent level of performance.

Jay Bilas, one of the most thoughtful and perceptive analysts of men's basketball and more recently women's had this to say



Bilas writes:


She is not the Pete Maravich or Steph Curry of women's basketball, she is a singular star in American culture, having cut her own trailblazing path along with the likes of Ann Meyers, Nancy Lieberman, Cynthia Cooper-Dyke and others.

Jay Bilas: Pause with me for a moment and appreciate Caitlin Clark

Mountains of superlatives have been used to describe the Iowa star. Take these next two months to watch and enjoy.

www.espn.com

 

[Bone Dog]

Since 2021 Clark has had the opportunity to develop, evolve, and improve her game as she's played considerably more than Paige and Aziz.

All true to an extent… and your reasoning assumes my principle, namely that the past is often indicative of the future.

It looks like you read the past, both recent and distant in one way and I read it in another. This is perfectly fair. I think Paige has caught up with Caitlin and maybe exceeded her in pure basketball ability. Obviously Azzi hasn’t, thought that game last season shows that she likely would have exceeded her as well but for the injury.

 

[Blacketh’D]

Yall get too caught up in percentages. nika Muhl shoots a better percentage than Clark, but nothing about that percentage is more valuable if you aren’t putting as many points on the board. No one way is perfect, but Clarke can get 30 a game because she has the volume, her percentages are still good, and she gets to the line. Now the claim that she’s the greatest three point shooter is a little overblown. You have to take difficulty and volume into account though. She’s def not better than KLM as a pure shooter. But she can catch and shoot and she can create the shot off the dribble. Not many shooters I see mentioned can do both. We don’t have the data i don’t think but I’m willing to bet KLM gets most of her buckets off assists. Theres a reason Steph curry is the greatest shooter and not Steve Kerr. Now clark is def not Steph curry but citing shooting percentage as your argument for why she’s not better is flawed

 

[maple]

For all the gushing opinion articles about CC's greatness, I can go find just as many for someone else.

After second WNBA MVP award, where does Breanna Stewart rank among all-time greats?

Is UConn's Breanna Stewart the greatest ever in college women's game?

Breanna Stewart: The Greatest Winner in Sports

Michael Jordan isn’t the college basketball GOAT. Breanna Stewart is.

Is Breanna Stewart the best UConn player in history?

WNBA superstar Breanna Stewart won 5 championships and 5 MVPs in a 10-month span to cap an epic comeback from a devastating injury

Is Breanna Stewart the Best Ever?

UConn women's basketball: Breanna Stewart makes case she's the greatest ever with fourth title

THIS ARTICLE ranks her as the best college women's player of all time. "Stewart's college resume is unassailable. She averaged 17.6 points, 7.7 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.5 steals, and 2.7 blocks per game. She's the first player to ever have 400 assists and 400 blocks. Stewart's individual awards are just as impressive. She won three straight Naismith awards and was the first player to ever be named to four consecutive Final Four Most Outstanding Player awards. Most importantly, she won a championship in every year of her college career at UConn. She had one of the most dominant runs in college basketball history."

Another article that does an in-depth discussion of the GOATS of women's college basketball. "Caitlin Clark is the greatest collegiate player of all time. But is she really? The Clark Effect is real, but it’s also part of a larger Women’s Basketball Effect of late. Those claiming Clark is the greatest of all time already might have fallen into the trap many stumble into with women’s sports in general. They’ve forgotten the history. Or, that history wasn't readily available to consume and discuss."

And these are just a sample of the top results.

 

[MSGRET]

For all the gushing opinion articles about CC's greatness, I can go find just as many for someone else.

After second WNBA MVP award, where does Breanna Stewart rank among all-time greats?

Is UConn's Breanna Stewart the greatest ever in college women's game?

Breanna Stewart: The Greatest Winner in Sports

Michael Jordan isn’t the college basketball GOAT. Breanna Stewart is.

Is Breanna Stewart the best UConn player in history?

WNBA superstar Breanna Stewart won 5 championships and 5 MVPs in a 10-month span to cap an epic comeback from a devastating injury

Is Breanna Stewart the Best Ever?

UConn women's basketball: Breanna Stewart makes case she's the greatest ever with fourth title

THIS ARTICLE ranks her as the best college women's player of all time. "Stewart's college resume is unassailable. She averaged 17.6 points, 7.7 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.5 steals, and 2.7 blocks per game. She's the first player to ever have 400 assists and 400 blocks. Stewart's individual awards are just as impressive. She won three straight Naismith awards and was the first player to ever be named to four consecutive Final Four Most Outstanding Player awards. Most importantly, she won a championship in every year of her college career at UConn. She had one of the most dominant runs in college basketball history."

Another article that does an in-depth discussion of the GOATS of women's college basketball. "Caitlin Clark is the greatest collegiate player of all time. But is she really? The Clark Effect is real, but it’s also part of a larger Women’s Basketball Effect of late. Those claiming Clark is the greatest of all time already might have fallen into the trap many stumble into with women’s sports in general. They’ve forgotten the history. Or, that history wasn't readily available to consume and discuss."

And these are just a sample of the top results.

When Clark wins one then maybe I just might believe that she may be better than Stewie, NOT. How many titles does she have? How many undefeated seasons does she have? How many Final Four Tournament MOP's does she have. Last I looked it was NONE. If Geno had let Stewie stay in the games as long as Clark and shoot as many shots as Clark does she would most likely be the all time leader in points and Clark would still be in second place with no chance in catching her.

 

[Bigboote]

Kaleena’s stats were wow! considering how many shots she made. She was an automatic bucket from the perimeter

Geno did once say, "If you want a lot of assists, just pass the ball to Kaleena."

 

[Centerstream]

When Clark wins one then maybe I just might believe that she may be better than Stewie, NOT. How many titles does she have? How many undefeated seasons does she have? How many Final Four Tournament MOP's does she have. Last I looked it was NONE. If Geno had let Stewie stay in the games as long as Clark and shoot as many shots as Clark does she would most likely be the all time leader in points and Clark would still be in second place with no chance in catching her.

This would also be true for 4 or 5 of UConn's career point leaders. But definitely agree about Stewie. She was never in a game long enough to try for 40 or 50 point games.
Gotta love the UConn "team first" style of play.

 

[Cuango]

Why would Clark stay another year? The college basketball experience is meant to be four years, not five. Even with the Covid year for a player of her caliber it makes sense to go pro. Paige is coming back because she wants four years at UConn. She missed a full year so it makes sense to stay.

the WNBA is a level up and CC will have to figure it out, like all rookies do. I personally think she will be in for a rude awakening. the defensive presence is there, all of the time. Better get a handle on the pouting about non calls now, it’s going to be a different ball game.

im looking forward to the matchups this weekend. The offensive fire power is there in most games. Star power from other players will be there too. Hope some defenses are up to the task. Good UConn. Hope Paige busts out for forty plus. I

Not sure why it makes sense to go pro now rather than spending another year at Iowa? The money difference for her is negligible and it is almost certain that she’s going to have a tough first year (if not career) in the W. I certainly would want to stay another year in her position. She’s practically a goddess in Iowa. Understand, I’m not criticizing her as she should certainly do what she wants to do. I think she’s probably going now because she can be sure she will go to Indiana. If she stayed another year, she could end up anywhere! I guess I can understand that line of reasoning, though in her place I might still choose to stay. Paige is coming back because she loves the UConn program/experience. She has already had four years at UConn! Next season will be her fifth.

 

[maple]

When Clark wins one then maybe I just might believe that she may be better than Stewie, NOT. How many titles does she have? How many undefeated seasons does she have? How many Final Four Tournament MOP's does she have. Last I looked it was NONE. If Geno had let Stewie stay in the games as long as Clark and shoot as many shots as Clark does she would most likely be the all time leader in points and Clark would still be in second place with no chance in catching her.

Exactly! Also, what's even MORE impressive about Stewie is that she isn't just a college superstar, she's also completely dominated professionally in multiple leagues.

 

[Centerstream]

Not sure why it makes sense to go pro now rather than spending another year at Iowa? The money difference for her is negligible and it is almost certain that she’s going to have a tough first year (if not career) in the W. I certainly would want to stay another year in her position. She’s practically a goddess in Iowa. Understand, I’m not criticizing her as she should certainly do what she wants to do. I think she’s probably going now because she can be sure she will go to Indiana. If she stayed another year, she could end up anywhere! I guess I can understand that line of reasoning, though in her place I might still choose to stay. Paige is coming back because she loves the UConn program/experience. She has already had four years at UConn! Next season will be her fifth.

And to your point, Paige probably wants 4 seasons of UConn basketball seasons.