Discussion in 'UConn Men's Basketball' started by jibsey, May 1, 2012.
I was responding directly to freescooter, who doesn't think recruits would want to play for Ollie.
Marty, come on. Let's be honest for a second. What recruits do want to play for him? You might take a chance that with Calhoun there you'll get at least 1-2 years with him then take your chances, particularly if you have NBA asperations and might not stay more than 2 years anyway, but come on. If you can choose between JTIII, Pitino and Kevin Ollie, how many are picking some guy nobody outside Storrs has ever heard of? Look, the reality is that after Calhoun, UCONN is going to take a season or so to adjust to a new head coach anyway. Even a good one is going to take a step back briefly most likely. Especially coming in to the mess that is there now. And at the highest levels, recruiting isn't about trying to find guys who expect to have 4 year careers...you get top players for 3 if you are lucky and he isn't as good as you hoped. So it isn't like a bluechipper isn't going to come to UCONN because Jim Calhoun might not be there when he's a senior...he's probably thinking that by the time he'd be a senior he's already in the NBA for at least a year. I mean, do you seriously think Andre Drummond wouldn't have picked UCONN is someone said Calhoun won't be there in 2014? Or those guys at Kentucky don't go there if someone told them Calipari might be gone before their senior year? I simply accept the fact that it could take 2 or 3 years to get UCONN back up and operating at a high level once Calhoun leaves. But if you screw up the selection of a replacement, and in my mind Ollie is a gigantic risk for lots of reasons, not the least being his inexperience and the lack of successful head coaches among Calhoun assistants, that could be 5-8 years. I don't want to be struggling to earn an NIT berth in 2017.
At least that one is honest. Does anything think that the university has agreed that Ollie is the next coach? Anyone? So the recruiting pitch a few posts up was dishonest. Nobody knows who the coach will be this summer, let alone next year and the year after. If Manuel did go along with Ollie...then Blaney better be out the door ASAP. We need the trial run at least during Calhoun's various absences.
Yes, it's honest. It's also a great way to guarantee that Uconn doesn't land a single recruit of significance until Calhoun retires.
It scares me if it's decided that Ollie will take over the program, can't imagine Manuel and Herbst would sign off on this. We are one of the biggest programs in the country, handing over the job to someone with 2 years experience as an assisstant could be a huge mistake. Ollie could be a great candidate but he should be interviewing against the best candidates across the country. If we just hand it over without taking a look at someone like Shaka Smart, the University would be making a massive mistake.
Agreed, and if Calhoun doesn't make KO assistant in his absences this year for an eventual takeover, then you have to question whether he will really be in line.
I'd think "I can either play for a hall of fame coach or THE guy (not just "some guy") said hall of fame coach chose in his own wisdom to put on the coaching staff and into whose hands he will place the culmination of his coaching life's work."
yeah, sure...If this happens, and I am more and more feelingand hearing it will, Ollie had best have a VERY high bar and a VERY short time to reach it. As some others have discovered, if you screw this up, it could take a decade to recover. If you do it right, it could take a year, 3 at the outside. And babysheep, what about Calhoun's record makes you think he knows anything about hiring a HEAD BASKETBALL COACH? Calhoun assistants who have gone on to be head coaches have been at best adequate and sometimes not very good. Very few have advanced beyond mid-majordom, and those who have have generally flamed out pretty quickly. I keep asking why kevin Ollie would be expected to break the mold but people keep either ignoring the question or saying well he learned under Calhoun (as did all the guys who flamed out, most for longer periods than Ollie), or say he played in the NBA, as if that somehow proves he knows how to COACH...
I don't think, especially given Ollie's relatively sudden appearance (and how clear it is that JC wants him to take over), that he hired those dudes as potential heirs to his position.
Maybe JC sees something special in him, some kind of intangible that makes him think that he can carry on his life's work. I dunno what it is, but I will always stand by JC's decision.
I think this board constantly misunderstands why recruits choose certain schools.
They can say what they want to the media, but almost every single time it comes down to the coach they have the best relationship with and who they feel the most comfortable with. Experience, NBA aspirations and all that crap doesn't have anything to do with recruit-coach relationships.
17 and 18 year old kids today probably relate better with Kevin Ollie than Jim Calhoun.
Everything about this thread is based on assumptions and misinformation... You started by saying that recruits wouldn't want to play for Ollie... I haven't heard anything to that, in fact, I've heard Ollie had serious success on the recruiting trail. There is zero guarantee that anyone Uconn hires as the next coach is going to see 1/10th the success as Calhoun. I would also say that Calhoun's coaches have had some levels of success. Moore is essentially building a program from scratch at Quinnipiac and has them competing for a bid to the NCAA's. I suspect in the next year or two that will happen. If he get's a win or two in the NCAA's, everyone on this board will say he should be the next coach... That's how fickle this board is.
Whether or not Ollie is the next coach is up to Herbst and Manuel. There is no reason to keep preaching misinformation about recruits not wanting to play for Ollie, or whether or not he's a good coach. The fact is, Uconn is going to hire who they want and I guarantee they won't solicit the input of this board. If that person is Ollie, then I assume Uconn did their homework and hired the best coach they could.
Besides, until Calhoun retires, or puts into place a plan for his succession, this discussion is somewhat irrelevant.
Marty, Marty, Marty...Again, it is way different being the recruiter for Jim Calhoun whom you've seen on tv, seen win championships and so on, and doing it for yourself. the list of great recruiters who flame out as head coaches is pretty longm too. Norm Roberts had a rep as a great NYC recruiter...How'd that work out? Fred Hill was known as a great recruiter...how'd he do as a head coach? And while you are certainly right that there is no guaretnee that a new head coach will have the same level of success as Jim Calhoun, you can certainly up the odds by going after someone who has demonstrated that he can actually be successful....Remember before the Miles thing broke, practically every one thought Calhoun was grooming Tom Moore for the job. It was even reported that he was practically ordered to Quinnipiac to get some head coaching experience...and if you look at his record, its fine but twice he has had a chance to get into the NCAA Tournament, and both times his team has failed. And lets not forget that we're talking the NEC, not even something like the MAAC...and in 5 years he has finished 5th, 5th, 1st (l0st in conference tourney) 2nd(lost in conference tourney) 5th. As I said about lots of Calhoun disciples, fine but hardly the next, well Jim Calhoun. Now all of a sudden Kevin Ollie is going to be the next big thing, I guess because it is a pretty slow race.
Har Har Har
I think you took my post out of context. I was saying that telling recruits that you have no idea who the next coach will be is a good way to ensure nobody commits.
Nolan has already been quoted as saying that he doesn't care if Calhoun or Ollie is his head coach because he likes them both. He was obviously told that a succession plan is in place.
I see what you're saying, and I agree on a lot of what you write here, but I just don't like coaches feeding recruits a line. I don't care if it means poor recruiting or not. These players should realize that coaches stay and coaches leave.
I'm still not sold that Tom Moore is out of anything. Taking over an established program and building a program from nothing are two totally different tasks.
Quinnipiac was Div 1 for only a couple years before TM started. No, the NEC isn't the Big East, but nobody expects Quinnipiac to compete in the Big East.
The fact that TM has them challenging for the tourney bid says a lot about what he's done there.
It's only a matter of time before they do get a bid. If his team makes any sort of run, I guarantee his name is back on the list of possible successors (assuming none is named at that point)...
Herbst probably knows more than him. She can ask her friends from Georgia for advice.
for someone who frequents the BY as much as you do, I find it astonishing that you'd honestly ask the question who wants to play for Ollie. He has been our lead recruiter since he got here. Go to any game early, and see who is dressed in gym shorts and working with the guards. Players love the guy, love playing for him, and he knows what he's doing. Stop being such a debby downer.
Two words: Nate. Miles.
Linking Moore to Nate Miles goes to show you don't remember how the NCAA saw things. The only morons who thought Moore did something wrong, unfortunately for him, were the two guys from Yahoo who butchered the original story. After the NCAA investigated it for a year, they found him completely innocent. So much so, he didn't even have to go in front of the Committee on Infractions with the rest of the UConn group.
I agree with Marty. I love UConn and I've followed Quinnipiac closely since Tom has gotten there. The guy's averaged 21 wins a year and gotten them into the NIT, CBI, and CIT in the last three years...at QUINNIPIAC! A place that averaged about 9 wins a year before he got there.
I love everything about Kevin Ollie and think he has the chance to be very good some day, but if I had to pick between them in the immediate future, I'm taking Moore and his 13 years as a UConn assistant (with about 10 NBA recruits that were his) and his five years of success as a D1 head coach to KO's 2 years as an assistant.
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