The President of Tulane smack talks the Big East

[UConnDan97]

Old BE averaged ~45,000
NBE averages ~34,000
New C-USA averages ~26,000


OLD BE (2010)
1. WVU 57,648 (6 games) (NCAA 33 overall)
2. UofL 50,648 (7) (41)
3. Pitt 50,486 (5) (42)
4. Rutgers 48,931 (5) (46)
5. USF 40,690 (6) (58)
6. Syracuse 39,639 (5) (63)
7. UConn 37,898 (5) (66)
8. Cincy 36,329 (6) (69)

Using the 2011 average for Boise State of 34,130, SMU of 20,889 (ouch) and L'Ville of 48,538, along with all the previous numbers mentioned, and I come out to the NBE averaging 36,600. I also came out with the new C-USA averaging 26,000. I think your point is still valid, if your point was that the NBE IS NOT the new C-USA. I just wanted to make sure that we were talking a 5-digit difference and not a 4-digit difference.

It's amazing how much the C-USA numbers are skewed by ECU (+3,500 for the average). I suppose it's also amazing how much the SMU / Memphis numbers bring the NBE down...

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Can we at least be clear what the measuring stick is here? Are we talking butts in the seats or good football teams?

Some of the numbers being posted are absurd. Great thread.

 

[UConnDan97]

BC 35,701
Wake Forest 33,127
Va Tech 66,233
NC State. 57,583
Clemson. 78,736
Fl State. 77,953
UNC. 55,583
Ga Tech. 47,116
MD. 42,355
Duke. 25,344
UVa. 48,877
Miami. 49,437

It's safe to say that Fl. State, Clemson, and Va Tech are all much better attendances than the New Big East. It is also safe to say that the rest fall right into line with the NBE. Also worth noting is that the capacities of the stadiums at Duke and Wake Forest (34k and 31k respectively) keep them pretty much maxed out there.

By the way, Rumrunner, where did you get these numbers? I just noticed that you have Wake Forest averaging more people than their stadium capacity will fit, based on this link: http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2011/6/29/2243155/acc-football-attendance-analysis Most of the other numbers seem in the right ballpark, but I was just wondering.

 

[UConnDan97]

Can we at least be clear what the measuring stick is here? Are we talking butts in the seats or good football teams?

Some of the numbers being posted are absurd. Great thread.

That's a good point. I think there are two answers to be had here. If we are addressing the Tulane President's comments, then the measuring stick should be good football teams (and the NBE is CLEARLY fine there versus C-USA, and arguably against the ACC). If we are addressing whether or not we are like the other BCS leagues in revenue, then we can use the numbers in the seats, but we already know that we are the BCS bastard child when it comes to revenue, so...yeah.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

If Pitt averaged 50k, I'm Warren Buffet.

And if Wake averaged over 33k, I'm your secretary.

 

[upstater]

And if Wake averaged over 33k, I'm your secretary.

Huh? Thatmakes no sense. I make no claims about WF. What I'm telling you is that Pitt counts the free tickets they give away as attendees even if the receivers of those tix never show up at a game. Frequently, there are more yellow seats than fans.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

What I'm saying, is that there is no way Pitt and Wake averaged what is being posted here.

 

[Rumrunner]

Wake's numbers are from their AD. Espn has them at 31,967. The extra is probably Wake padding the ND game. I believe they claimed 40k "unofficially".

To be fair some programs are more honest in reporting real numbers. However, that dishonesty probably averages out as each conference has its fair share.

Eg, here in socal everyone knows that SDSU is a serial padder, as the revenue is a public number. The SD Tribune did an expose on it. Likewise, UCF and USF are notorious padders also. Memphis, too. There's no question watching Clemson, VaTech, FSU that those are major programs vis-a-vis attendance. In the New Big East, once UofL leaves, the top school will be Rutgers. So back to the main point, while the NBE is ahead of CUSA, it is that much further behind the ACC.

The numbers, and stadia, for the Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 12 are that much scarier.

The Big 12:

Texas 100,524
Texas A&M 87,183
Oklahoma 85,162
Missouri 62,095
Oklahoma State 57,229
Texas Tech 55,347
Iowa State 53,647
Kansas State 49,031
Kansas 42,283
Baylor 41,368

It's safe to say that Fl. State, Clemson, and Va Tech are all much better attendances than the New Big East. It is also safe to say that the rest fall right into line with the NBE. Also worth noting is that the capacities of the stadiums at Duke and Wake Forest (34k and 31k respectively) keep them pretty much maxed out there.

By the way, Rumrunner, where did you get these numbers? I just noticed that you have Wake Forest averaging more people than their stadium capacity will fit, based on this link: http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2011/6/29/2243155/acc-football-attendance-analysis Most of the other numbers seem in the right ballpark, but I was just wondering.

 

[lsuconnman]

Anyone ever been to a Tulane game, football or any other sport? I attend 30 NCAA football games a year, and I value the opinions of every other school I've ever been to more than Tulane's.

 

[Adios]

Some of the schools coming to the Big East should easily get increases in attendance due to their new affiliation, such as Memphis, SDSU and perhaps SMU. And I know UH, at least, is going to build a larger stadium.

 

[Jax Husky]

 

[TexanMark]

Huh? Thatmakes no sense. I make no claims about WF. What I'm telling you is that Pitt counts the free tickets they give away as attendees even if the receivers of those tix never show up at a game. Frequently, there are more yellow seats than fans.

And Rutgirls gives away 40% of their tix...actual butts in seats would be lower at most schools outside the largest attended programs. I do agree Pitt is pretty bad...I think ND years inflate their nums.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

It appears that the Marinatto koolaid is sweeter to many of you than I would have thought. Don't conflate a BCS ranking with the value of a football program. I would have thunk Notre Dame taught that lesson already.

The New^ Big East has the following in 2011:

School. FB attendance

Memphis State: 10,937 (actual)
SMU: 20,890
UCF: 34,283
Boise CC
SDSU: 28,435
UConn: 36,668
Rutgers: 43,761
Houston: 31,726
USF: 44,550
Cincy: 32,293
Temple: 28,060


So what happens when these goliaths start battling one another? These numbers are horrid. Down right CUSA like...

You are assuming these numbers will stay the same and they won't. These programs will all look quite different in 5 years. Couple of things right off top of my head:

- Boise is in the process of upgrading their stadium to 55K. I have little doubt they will sell out.
- It wasn't too long ago when Memphis was averaging 40K+ per game when they had a decent program.
- Houston got a brand new stadium and they should improve their attendance by 10K.
- SDSU already proved they can average 40K+ with a good year.
- SMU was a big time college football program and they got the resources to get back there again. They are already paying June Jones $2M+ per year as their FB coach. I just heard they offered $2.5M+ per year for their next college bball coach. They got deep pocket boosters.
- I am pretty sure UCF will sell out their 45K stadium more being in the new BE.

USF and Cincy were horrible in attendance before they joined the BE. Both have improved a ton by being in the BE. If the new BE TV deal is a good one, it will only help all those programs grow more in the coming years.

Many programs that are in other power conferences came from humble beginnings at one point or another. Ex. Arizona and ASU were in the WAC at one time. BE could look quite different in another 10 years.

 

[Rumrunner]

Westcoast, you may be right, but there's only talk of potential from teams, except for Boise. The BE has the potential to be a league with programs that rival the power conferences. But for right now, it's unrealized. Who knows how things will shake out? The biggest problem going forward is the lack of stud, anchor-like progams. There's no USC, UCLA, Oregons; Michigan, Tosu, Penn States; Texas, Oklahoma, WVU; Clemson, FSU, VaTechs; Bama, LSU, Florida.

And if (when) UofL leaves, the strongest programs on the Big East will be Boise, Rutgers and probably UConn. The Sesame Street video asking "Which one is like the others?" that's often posted here comes to mind.

 

[TexanMark]

Westcoast, you may be right, but there's only talk of potential from teams, except for Boise. The BE has the potential to be a league with programs that rival the power conferences. But for right now, it's unrealized. Who knows how things will shake out? The biggest problem going forward is the lack of stud, anchor-like progams. There's no USC, UCLA, Oregons; Michigan, Tosu, Penn States; Texas, Oklahoma, WVU; Clemson, FSU, VaTechs; Bama, LSU, Florida.

And if (when) UofL leaves, the strongest programs on the Big East will be Boise, Rutgers and probably UConn. The Sesame Street video asking "Which one is like the others?" that's often posted here comes to mind.

Agreed...he is building a fantasy where all the teams will rise...some of the teams will rise and some won't and it will be more closely correlated to who is winning and who isn't. Some of the teams will be lucky to draw 15k actual.

 

[Pudge]

Agreed...he is building a fantasy where all the teams will rise...some of the teams will rise and some won't and it will be more closely correlated to who is winning and who isn't. Some of the teams will be lucky to draw 15k actual.

And here is the UNDERACHIEVER of the decade speaking up.

Look ... I know we have a lot of Joe Bfstyleksi's on this board. O ... NO ... the sky is falling. Undeniably, Louisville, UConn, Rutgers, USF and Cincy are FAR better than they were in 2004 as far as Fanbase. As far as Home attendance (look Mark - let's not go running down Rutgers: they are amazingly ahead of what they were when I first went down there in the early 2000s; SU? NOPE.), I think a nice little pickup CAN come from all those new Programs. With a new TV contract. Will it be near the other 5 Cartel Conferences? No. But, it will be demonstrably higher than the last BE contract. And, it will be on NBC or Fox or CBS ... and promoted. Best we can do. I will look at Rumrunner and/or Mark in 5 years and say: Look ... Boise, San Diego State, UCF, Houston are all doing great. That's my prediction.