The Official 2015 Red Sox Thread

[60'sfan]

Bye, bye Daniel Nava, Shane Victorino and Mike Napoli. You guys were huge in 2013 but it's a new season now. Thanks for all you did.

 

[JSM1970]

I agree, more Sox hype on prospects. Maybe Moncada will develop, let's hope, they spent a fortune to get him.

But right now he's very average playing in A ball. What is there to get excited about?

Hopefully not the bust Castillo is, 27 YO corner OF with zero power making $10mm year and a lousy defensive player.

Utterly amazing Cherington has a job.

The fact Brock Holt was their sole AS representative speaks volume for this season. Amazing how bad he is when he becomes and everyday player.

The problem with Rusney is that he is so fragile it's hard to tell if he will ever be any good. The same can be said for Buchholtz. He has these streaks where he appears to be ready to be the top-of-the-line starter and then he gets hurt. His recovery time is painfully long.
We keep talking about the Red Sox strong farm system but I don't see too much down there to be excited about. Most of the teams are playing sub-500 baseball and I don't see anyone right now who is ready to contribute. Even our young phenom from Cuba, Yoan Moncada, is struggling. He is hitting .275 at the A-level and is on pace to set a new record for errors. He is striking out at an alarming pace and has only 4 homers. He seems to be a base-stealer however.
Theo made some mistakes but we had strong teams during his era and the farm system was getting better. Ben has not shown much of anything.

 

[The Viking]

I agree, more Sox hype on prospects. Maybe Moncada will develop, let's hope, they spent a fortune to get him.

But right now he's very average playing in A ball. What is there to get excited about?

Feel free to do some research at anytime before blowing more hot air.

Moncada has an 829 OPS and is just 20. League average OPS is 697 and average age is 21-22.

Last 10 games he's hitting .385 with 12 steals.

yep, just another overhyped bust, just like Betts, Bogaerts, Eduardo Rodriguez, Swihart, etc etc.

Sure you're not a NY fan?

 

[JSM1970]

Umm, in low A ball? Correa is 20 and starting in the MLB and is costly a fraction of Moncada.

I never mentioned Betts or Xander or even Eduardo.

Betts is like the 8th best CF in the AL, you act like he's Mickey Mantle or Trout.

Xander has no power, only 3 HRs and none since AS break and he gets pitches hitting in front of Papi. When he was coming up Sox talked him up like he's the next Nomar or ARod.

Rodriguez is 6-4 with an ERA over 4 and WHIP 1.24. Again, not exactly Warren Spahn. And he's been awful post AS once teams can scout and prepare for him.

I like these 3 too. I don't like Swihart at all, but how many teams have really good catchers.

Again, my point was just that the Red Sox overhype their farm system more than others it seems.

Not a prospect, but the biggest joke is Brock Holt. How can your Twitter handle be "Brockstar' when you suck at baseball. He is hitting .209 and has 4 RBI since the AS break and 5 since July 1st.

Feel free to do some research at anytime before blowing more hot air.

Moncada has an 829 OPS and is just 20. League average OPS is 697 and average age is 21-22.

Last 10 games he's hitting .385 with 12 steals.

yep, just another overhyped bust, just like Betts, Bogaerts, Eduardo Rodriguez, Swihart, etc etc.

Sure you're not a NY fan?

 

[Stainmaster]

Umm, in low A ball? Correa is 20 and starting in the MLB and is costly a fraction of Moncada.

I never mentioned Betts or Xander or even Eduardo.

Betts is like the 8th best CF in the AL, you act like he's Mickey Mantle or Trout.

Xander has no power, only 3 HRs and none since AS break and he gets pitches hitting in front of Papi. When he was coming up Sox talked him up like he's the next Nomar or ARod.

Rodriguez is 6-4 with an ERA over 4 and WHIP 1.24. Again, not exactly Warren Spahn. And he's been awful post AS once teams can scout and prepare for him.

I like these 3 too. I don't like Swihart at all, but how many teams have really good catchers.

Again, my point was just that the Red Sox overhype their farm system more than others it seems.

Not a prospect, but the biggest joke is Brock Holt. How can your Twitter handle be "Brockstar' when you suck at baseball. He is hitting .209 and has 4 RBI since the AS break and 5 since July 1st.

There are so many players on this roster who deserve to have people griping at them: Sandoval, Hanley, Napoli pre-trade, Ortiz, Kelly, Miley, Porcello, the entire bullpen save for Uehara etc. Why the hell do you find it necessary to take a crap on the few bright spots of this season. Also your expectation for prospects are way too high -- Carlos Correa as the litmus test? Really?

Xander is 12th in BA in the entire AL. I don't give a flying f about his HR numbers.

Swihart is only up due to injuries and had a 2016 ETA previously, but you obviously don't care.

Brock Holt sucks at baseball...if you're trying to paint yourself as a credible fan you're way off the mark.

 

[The Viking]

Umm, in low A ball? Correa is 20 and starting in the MLB and is costly a fraction of Moncada.

I never mentioned Betts or Xander or even Eduardo.

Betts is like the 8th best CF in the AL, you act like he's Mickey Mantle or Trout.

Xander has no power, only 3 HRs and none since AS break and he gets pitches hitting in front of Papi. When he was coming up Sox talked him up like he's the next Nomar or ARod.

Rodriguez is 6-4 with an ERA over 4 and WHIP 1.24. Again, not exactly Warren Spahn. And he's been awful post AS once teams can scout and prepare for him.

I like these 3 too. I don't like Swihart at all, but how many teams have really good catchers.

Again, my point was just that the Red Sox overhype their farm system more than others it seems.

Not a prospect, but the biggest joke is Brock Holt. How can your Twitter handle be "Brockstar' when you suck at baseball. He is hitting .209 and has 4 RBI since the AS break and 5 since July 1st.

Correa and Trout are rarities, save your time comparing anyone to those 2.

Who hypes them? Is it Cherington? Or is it the scouts and ML experts? And what is the issue here really when Betts, Bogaerts and Rodriguez - who are three of the youngest players in the game - are playing well?

I mean if the Sox had NO ONE who was coming through I could maybe see your point.

Bogaerts is much improved despite the drop in power. He has focused more on getting on base and going from a bad defensive SS to a very good defensive SS in one year. I would assume in another year or two the power will start to return.

Rodriguez was pretty good against the Yankees despite the loss. His last two batters in the 7th he struck out on mid-90's gas. Don't give up on him, you must be really really awful to watch a game with.

 

[mauconnfan]

Correa and Trout are rarities, save your time comparing anyone to those 2.

Who hypes them? Is it Cherington? Or is it the scouts and ML experts? And what is the issue here really when Betts, Bogaerts and Rodriguez - who are three of the youngest players in the game - are playing well?

I mean if the Sox had NO ONE who was coming through I could maybe see your point.

Bogaerts is much improved despite the drop in power. He has focused more on getting on base and going from a bad defensive SS to a very good defensive SS in one year. I would assume in another year or two the power will start to return.

Rodriguez was pretty good against the Yankees despite the loss. His last two batters in the 7th he struck out on mid-90's gas. Don't give up on him, you must be really really awful to watch a game with.

Everyone's been pretty good against the Yanks for a few games now in case you weren't watching. But he could be very good no doubt.

 

[60'sfan]

Umm, in low A ball? Correa is 20 and starting in the MLB and is costly a fraction of Moncada.

I never mentioned Betts or Xander or even Eduardo.

Betts is like the 8th best CF in the AL, you act like he's Mickey Mantle or Trout.

Xander has no power, only 3 HRs and none since AS break and he gets pitches hitting in front of Papi. When he was coming up Sox talked him up like he's the next Nomar or ARod.

Rodriguez is 6-4 with an ERA over 4 and WHIP 1.24. Again, not exactly Warren Spahn. And he's been awful post AS once teams can scout and prepare for him.

I like these 3 too. I don't like Swihart at all, but how many teams have really good catchers.

Again, my point was just that the Red Sox overhype their farm system more than others it seems.

Not a prospect, but the biggest joke is Brock Holt. How can your Twitter handle be "Brockstar' when you suck at baseball. He is hitting .209 and has 4 RBI since the AS break and 5 since July 1st.

I agree with a lot of what you say. In particular that Cherington is lucky to have a job. Three last place finishes in four years and a farm system that is deteriorating doesn't say much for him.

First the farm system that some seem to like. Triple A is where you store your emergency replacement veterans and prospects who are almost ready. The Pawsox started out pretty good but now are clearly the worse team in all of triple A ball. They have a couple of vets who can help out but there are no prospects there.

Double A is often loaded is often where you store your prospects. Young players who are on the move and may be a year or two away. Portland is dead last and has the worse record in all of double A ball. There are no prospects there except for possibly Manuel Margot. He is a very fast outfielder who is hitting .258 with no power.

Advanced A is for players who are young with a lot of potential. Often the jump from single A to advanced A is tough. Salem is last in their league in the second half of the season and there are no prospects there either.

Single A is used as the introduction for young players who have been drafted. Greenville is currently in 4th place in that league. The sox have two and perhaps three prospects here. Moncada, Devers and Guerra all seem to have some potential. They are all infielders who have some pop but are very poor defensively. It is too early to say if any of them of the potential to be impact players. It is hard to judge players at the single A level because the competition is not that good.

The short-season leagues are for players coming out of college or high school. The Sox may have one prospect here at Lowell. Andrew Benintendi seems to have some tools but he is struggling so far at .258.

Ben has made some terrible decisions lately. Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval are grossly over-paid. They have not lived up to their hype offensively and have been liabilities defensively. I don't even want to talk about Rick Porcello and all the money we will be paying him for the next four year. Justin Masterson was a reasonable gamble but a bust nevertheless.

The bottom line for me is that there is no help coming soon from the minors and if the Sox want to be competitive again they need to invest heavily in the free agent market.

 

[mauconnfan]

Baseball is crazy. Ben hasn't been too good and hasn't been too lucky either. Hanley was playing with the devil and he got burnt. Who would think a guy who played SS at least decent would be awful in the OF. By looking there's no way he could play SS either as he's way too big somehow. I liked the Masterson shot but it backfired. Sandoval isn't worth crap unless you make the playoffs, well he's just decent. I would never have guessed Porcello would have a dud year like this, love the guy and would have begged the Yanks to make a deal for him. Who woulda thunk?

 

[Stainmaster]

And the one consistent reliever is done for the year...oy.

 

[60'sfan]

And the one consistent reliever is done for the year...oy.

Koji going down is no big deal. 2015 is lost and just a testing ground for who might be able to help the team next year. I think I am more concerned about Pedroia. He missed a lot of time last year and even more this year. Is he just wearing down?

 

[The Viking]

I agree with a lot of what you say. In particular that Cherington is lucky to have a job. Three last place finishes in four years and a farm system that is deteriorating doesn't say much for him.

First the farm system that some seem to like. Triple A is where you store your emergency replacement veterans and prospects who are almost ready. The Pawsox started out pretty good but now are clearly the worse team in all of triple A ball. They have a couple of vets who can help out but there are no prospects there.

Double A is often loaded is often where you store your prospects. Young players who are on the move and may be a year or two away. Portland is dead last and has the worse record in all of double A ball. There are no prospects there except for possibly Manuel Margot. He is a very fast outfielder who is hitting .258 with no power.

Advanced A is for players who are young with a lot of potential. Often the jump from single A to advanced A is tough. Salem is last in their league in the second half of the season and there are no prospects there either.

Single A is used as the introduction for young players who have been drafted. Greenville is currently in 4th place in that league. The sox have two and perhaps three prospects here. Moncada, Devers and Guerra all seem to have some potential. They are all infielders who have some pop but are very poor defensively. It is too early to say if any of them of the potential to be impact players. It is hard to judge players at the single A level because the competition is not that good.

The short-season leagues are for players coming out of college or high school. The Sox may have one prospect here at Lowell. Andrew Benintendi seems to have some tools but he is struggling so far at .258.

Ben has made some terrible decisions lately. Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval are grossly over-paid. They have not lived up to their hype offensively and have been liabilities defensively. I don't even want to talk about Rick Porcello and all the money we will be paying him for the next four year. Justin Masterson was a reasonable gamble but a bust nevertheless.

The bottom line for me is that there is no help coming soon from the minors and if the Sox want to be competitive again they need to invest heavily in the free agent market.

First stop referencing the records of minor league teams. No one cares except for maybe the local fans. It's all about bringing up prospects that can help the team. That's it.

Outside of 2013, Cherington has been abysmal at evaluating major league talent. He hit a grand slam in 2013 and has put up a golden sombrero since.

But the farm system deteriorating? You do realize that 6 of their best minor leaguers over the past year or two have all been called up right? That's a big reason that the talent in the system - and it is still regarded as very good - is in the lower minors a few years away with a lot less in AAA and AA. Not because Cherington and his assistants all of a sudden have no clue how to draft or build up players.
Betts - 22
Bogaerts - 22
Swihart - 23
Bradley - 25
Eduardo Rodriguez - 22
Henry Owens - 22

thats 6 of their 14 impact major league spots - if you count 9 hitters and 5 SP's. I won't count Castillo because he is 28, he's already in the middle of his prime. But these kids are going to get a ton of playing time down the stretch which will continue to help them into next year. Thank god they stuck with Bradley, he's finally starting to get on base and his defense is gold-glove caliber. He can just get on base 1 out of 3 times toward the bottom of the lineup, it will be a big help.

Margot is putting up a 711 OPS in a league where the average is 690..and he's 4 years younger than the average pitcher. That counts for something. And Sam Travis may turn into a good 1B too.

And stop listing batting average. Benendeti has something like a 950 OPS and 7 HR's in his first 100 professional at bats. Why he isn't in lower A is beyond me. I would expect him to start in High A next year though.

Relax and enjoy the kids, they are good and there are more coming in a couple of years.

 

[60'sfan]

First stop referencing the records of minor league teams. No one cares except for maybe the local fans. It's all about bringing up prospects that can help the team. That's it.

Outside of 2013, Cherington has been abysmal at evaluating major league talent. He hit a grand slam in 2013 and has put up a golden sombrero since.

But the farm system deteriorating? You do realize that 6 of their best minor leaguers over the past year or two have all been called up right? That's a big reason that the talent in the system - and it is still regarded as very good - is in the lower minors a few years away with a lot less in AAA and AA. Not because Cherington and his assistants all of a sudden have no clue how to draft or build up players.
Betts - 22
Bogaerts - 22
Swihart - 23
Bradley - 25
Eduardo Rodriguez - 22
Henry Owens - 22

thats 6 of their 14 impact major league spots - if you count 9 hitters and 5 SP's. I won't count Castillo because he is 28, he's already in the middle of his prime. But these kids are going to get a ton of playing time down the stretch which will continue to help them into next year. Thank god they stuck with Bradley, he's finally starting to get on base and his defense is gold-glove caliber. He can just get on base 1 out of 3 times toward the bottom of the lineup, it will be a big help.

Margot is putting up a 711 OPS in a league where the average is 690..and he's 4 years younger than the average pitcher. That counts for something. And Sam Travis may turn into a good 1B too.

And stop listing batting average. Benendeti has something like a 950 OPS and 7 HR's in his first 100 professional at bats. Why he isn't in lower A is beyond me. I would expect him to start in High A next year though.

Relax and enjoy the kids, they are good and there are more coming in a couple of years.

Sorry but I always look at won/loss records in evaluating teams and performance. Probably a carry-over from my days in business when I always looked at the bottom line. My career would have been much shorter if I told my boss not to worry about the profits, because we have a great organization and the future is bright.

The Red Sox have deteriorated as a team and an organization since Ben Cherington took over. If you don't want to look at the won/loss records of the minor league teams, you must have noticed how the major league team is performing. This will be the third last place finish in the last four years. Yes, I agree with you that they do have some good young players but so far I don't see any Bryce Harpers, Mike Trouts or Sonny Grays out there and I don't see this development as translating into wins.

You are far more patient than I and I hope that you are correct.

 

[mauconnfan]

That's okay you have Mr Baseball offering his wisdom:

http://nesn.com/2015/08/david-ortiz-wants-to-play-part-in-red-sox-ops-help-make-team-better/

You're all set now. A guy who doesn't have a glove knows the players out there better than his management, whom he just threw under the bus. Really? Not even Schilling would do that. Hell imagine Jeter doing that and he ain't Jeter or even close?

He's a serious POS.

 

[Stainmaster]

Using W/L records for minor league teams to evaluate prospects' abilities is dumb as sh.it because each team is not comprised entirely of prospects. A considerable percentage of every team at every level is made up of roster fillers - guys who are not seen as having any future whatsoever, but are needed to make sure that the actual prospects on the team are able to have enough people around them to play in full-fledged games. These guys and the variable nature of their skills are playing a large part in determining W/L records.

 

[Stainmaster]

That's okay you have Mr Baseball offering his wisdom:

http://nesn.com/2015/08/david-ortiz-wants-to-play-part-in-red-sox-ops-help-make-team-better/

You're all set now. A guy who doesn't have a glove knows the players out there better than his management, whom he just threw under the bus. Really? Not even Schilling would do that. Hell imagine Jeter doing that and he ain't Jeter or even close?

He's a serious POS.

I'm getting sick of this ridiculous rhetoric you Yankees fans have regarding Ortiz. First of all, nobody compared him to Jeter. Second of all, regarding the comparison to A-Rod in an earlier thread: A-Rod is a horrible, horrible man who has been recorded as being rude and disrespectful to teammates, who cheated on his wife with a myriad of women. Regarding PEDs, which one obstructed an official league investigation? Absolutely horrible character.

The main difference I've noticed is that Ortiz-bashing only comes from Yankee fans, Boston fans support him. Whereas until this year you were all shi.tting on A-Rod. My old man, a Yankees fan since the early 1950s, wanted him cut loose.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm getting sick of this ridiculous rhetoric you Yankees fans have regarding Ortiz. First of all, nobody compared him to Jeter. Second of all, regarding the comparison to A-Rod in an earlier thread: A-Rod is a horrible, horrible man who has been recorded as being rude and disrespectful to teammates, who cheated on his wife with a myriad of women. Regarding PEDs, which one obstructed an official league investigation? Absolutely horrible character.

The main difference I've noticed is that Ortiz-bashing only comes from Yankee fans, Boston fans support him. Whereas until this year you were all shi.tting on A-Rod. My old man, a Yankees fan since the early 1950s, wanted him cut loose.

And I am sick of your assumption Ortiz is a better guy in any way than ARod. You know this how? It's BS and screw you and Papi he is at least as much a POS as ARod and things like this add to his prowess. Too bad if you're sick of it at least Yankee fans admitted when Arod was just that you guys are basically stupid. Keep falling for those fake smiles and "Boston is my town" crap. You guys are gullible.

 

[Stainmaster]

And I am sick of your assumption Ortiz is a better gu in any way than ARod. You know this how? It's BS and screw you and Papi he is at least as much a POS as ARod and things like this add to his prowess. Too bad if you're sick of it at least Yankee fans admitted when Arod was just that you guys are basically stupid.

You're just making up BS. No way are the two comparable at all. I'm not having this conversation anymore -- have a good day.

 

[mauconnfan]

You're just making up BS. No way are the two comparable at all. I'm not having this conversation anymore -- have a good day.

yes they are and you're blind to that. 2 egomaniacs who at times think they are bigger than the game itself. You are not worth a conversation with until you see reality Stair - that's the plain truth.

 

[mauconnfan]

By the way no comparisons to Jeter I mean how could there be? That was just making a comparison of team leaders, which I assume he is right, throwing the management under the bus by telling the media he's offering his vast knowledge of baseball players to them in order to come up with a better team since he's not happy with this one. He's hitting now but I think he forgot he was a major part of them falling way behind when he sucked then wouldn't play first base in order to make the one up better right? I get players have their voice - LeBron, Kobe etc etc and others I am sure in the background, yes the background. But his need, during a trying year with his GM under fire, to go to the media with this is pitiful and I can tell you this ARod wouldn't do it to Girardi and Cashman. Now tell me how great a guy he is and how you're so right.

 

[60'sfan]

Since this is the "Official Red Sox Thread", let's try another topic. Suppose JBJ continues to hit a little bit to point where he is making a positive contribution offensively. Where do you play him? Silverman, a writer for the Herald says it would be a big mistake to put him in center field and move Mookie somewhere else. I say if Jackie is the best centerfielder and I think he is, move Mookie to a corner position. Someday he may end up being Petey's replacement anyway.

 

[mauconnfan]

Since this is the "Official Red Sox Thread", let's try another topic. Suppose JBJ continues to hit a little bit to point where he is making a positive contribution offensively. Where do you play him? Silverman, a writer for the Herald says it would be a big mistake to put him in center field and move Mookie somewhere else. I say if Jackie is the best centerfielder and I think he is, move Mookie to a corner position. Someday he may end up being Petey's replacement anyway.

I will jump on this thread 60's as I've seen enough. JBJ will never be a good or even decent ML hitter. He is a sensational outfielder and he and Betts in the outfield together would be tremendous defensively no doubt. But can you throw a weak bat in the outfield like that - he's overmatched quite often by good to real good pitchers?

 

[60'sfan]

I will jump on this thread 60's as I've seen enough. JBJ will never be a good or even decent ML hitter. He is a sensational outfielder and he and Betts in the outfield together would be tremendous defensively no doubt. But can you throw a weak bat in the outfield like that - he's overmatched quite often by good to real good pitchers?

OK, good points but I have two examples for you. One is someone you know well - Brett Gardner. Brett was a decent hitter in the minors but started very slow with the Yankees. Many including some Yankee fans said that he should be dumped. He was solid defensively and a very good base stealer. Because the Yankees did not have a lot of options, they almost had to play him and he has adjusted quite well. Hitting out of the two spot for New York is almost the perfect spot for him. Between he and Ellsbury, they are getting on base a lot and can run.

The other example is Jose Iglesias. Everyone loved his defense but no believed he would ever be able to hit much. I argued that the Sox should have kept him but that didn't happen. Although he has missed some playing time, he has hit over .300 the last two years and the Tigers are using him in the number two position in their line-up.

Finally, it is pretty rare when someone hits well in 3A but is unable to hit in the majors. Jackie is an all-star at Pawtucket and I think that the biggest problem for him is confidence. I just know that if the Sox trade him, he will haunt us for the next 10 years.

 

[60'sfan]

Here's another thread for Red Sox fans. In the early 80's the Red Sox had three left-handers in their starting rotation - Bruce Hurst, Bob Ojeda and John Tudor. It took time for each to develop but they all went on to have solid careers; unfortunately mostly with other teams. Is it possible that we are experiencing deja vu with Eduardo Rodriquez, Henry Owens and Brian Johnson?

 

[mauconnfan]

OK, good points but I have two examples for you. One is someone you know well - Brett Gardner. Brett was a decent hitter in the minors but started very slow with the Yankees. Many including some Yankee fans said that he should be dumped. He was solid defensively and a very good base stealer. Because the Yankees did not have a lot of options, they almost had to play him and he has adjusted quite well. Hitting out of the two spot for New York is almost the perfect spot for him. Between he and Ellsbury, they are getting on base a lot and can run.

The other example is Jose Iglesias. Everyone loved his defense but no believed he would ever be able to hit much. I argued that the Sox should have kept him but that didn't happen. Although he has missed some playing time, he has hit over .300 the last two years and the Tigers are using him in the number two position in their line-up.

Finally, it is pretty rare when someone hits well in 3A but is unable to hit in the majors. Jackie is an all-star at Pawtucket and I think that the biggest problem for him is confidence. I just know that if the Sox trade him, he will haunt us for the next 10 years.

Fair enough points. I though Iglesias was a super fielding puss hitter and he has proven me wrong (imagine that?). Patience is required sometime but it's also sometimes at a loss of time. Maybe get something for him while you can?