The Hall of Fame

[Deepster]

If Jeter didn't have that playoff history he would be a compiler, too.

That's all I was looking to see. Not sure why the rest of the Yankee humps have a hard time saying it.

 

[superjohn]

That's all I was looking to see. Not sure why the rest of the Yankee humps have a hard time saying it.

Because it's inaccurate.

 

[G0UCONN]

They are all compilers to a degree.

That said, and far be it from me to defend Jeter who mostly hit singles to the opposite field all the way to Cooperstown, but he is an absolute no brainer HOFer and one of top 5 SS to ever play --- his great post season success aside.

 

[Deepster]

They are all compilers to a degree.

That said, and far be it from me to defend Jeter who mostly hit singles to the opposite field all the way to Cooperstown, but he is an absolute no brainer HOFer and one of top 5 SS to ever play --- his great post season success aside.

I didn't say he wasn't a first ballot HOF lock. I simply asked why Dove thought Biggio was a compiler (with some negative connotations on that term) and Jeter wasn't. Dove answered the question honestly....and it's the rest of the Jeter Fanboy Nation that can't accept that truth.

 

[G0UCONN]

Fair enough. One thing about Jeter that undercuts the compiler who holds on for several years putting up shaky numbers for a while at least not close to their hey days (Yaz, Rose) is that Jeter was very consistent...except for a lousy final year. He was basically 20 years of getting in the neighborhood of 300-13-75 with 20 steals and lots of runs and hits (singles).

 

[zyron]

I didn't say he wasn't a first ballot HOF lock. I simply asked why Dove thought Biggio was a compiler (with some negative connotations on that term) and Jeter wasn't. Dove answered the question honestly....and it's the rest of the Jeter Fanboy Nation that can't accept that truth.

Cause Jeter isn't a compiler, he hit .310 for his career. Maybe you don't know this but that is a huge difference from .281. Biggio played his last 3 years just to get to 3000 hits. Again, Jeter had 2 bad seasons (3 if you want to count last years 17 games). You can't have 16 Hall of Fame years and 2 bad ones and say that guy is a compiler.

Go look at Biggio's stats, bad and below average years everywhere.

 

[Dove]

Because it's inaccurate.

Yep, I'm backpedalling off that comment. Jeter had 2 200 hit seasons in his last 5 full seasons with a 179 hit season in there, too.

Biggio cracked the 170 hit mark just once in his last 6 seasons.

Also, throw out Jeter's 2013 season and he had 19 seasons to Biggio's 20. So it's about 3450 hits to 3060. A difference of 400 hits over 19 seasons.

 

[Dove]

I didn't say he wasn't a first ballot HOF lock. I simply asked why Dove thought Biggio was a compiler (with some negative connotations on that term) and Jeter wasn't. Dove answered the question honestly....and it's the rest of the Jeter Fanboy Nation that can't accept that truth.

I put thought into it as I drove home. The twelve .300 seasons (I think I wrote eight earlier?) and the four .290+ seasons make him more of a producer than compiler.

 

[superjohn]

I didn't say he wasn't a first ballot HOF lock. I simply asked why Dove thought Biggio was a compiler (with some negative connotations on that term) and Jeter wasn't. Dove answered the question honestly....and it's the rest of the Jeter Fanboy Nation that can't accept that truth.

I answered it honestly, how does that make me a Jeter fanboy?

 

[CallMeBruce]

If you're just talking about regular season Jeter's career batting average is .310 Biggio's is .281. Jeter had 12 seasons with over a .300 average, Biggio had 4. Jeter had 8 seasons with over 200 hits, Biggio had 1. It's kind of silly to leave out postseason careers when talking about players accomplishments but these are just a few of the differences between their regular season careers. They really weren't my much alike at all.

Batting average sucks. Jeter was better than Biggio, but Biggio's biggest crime was always looking like a dork with a big helmet. He belongs in the HOF.

I would have thought Schilling belonged in the HOF, but according to him, not being as liberal as John Smoltz, a noted homophobe who donated to Mitt Romney. The guy was a great pitcher, but Schilling is really east to hate.

 

[zyron]

Batting average sucks. Jeter was better than Biggio, but Biggio's biggest crime was always looking like a dork with a big helmet. He belongs in the HOF.

I agree, that is why I used offensive WAR. Deepster ignores things that actually show how good Jeter was however.

 

[Husky25]

Overall WAR: Jeter - 71.8 vs. Biggio at 65.1. That is less than 6 wins over 20 years. Jeter is probably a 1st ballot HoFer. Biggio is a 4th ballot HoFer. There's your distinction, but make no mistake, they are both in Cooperstown? Skip over his plaque if you choose, but Biggio has a rightful claim. Period.

 

[zyron]

Overall WAR: Jeter - 71.8 vs. Biggio at 65.1. That is less than 6 wins over 20 years. Jeter is probably a 1st ballot HoFer. Biggio is a 4th ballot HoFer. There's your distinction, but make no mistake, they are both in Cooperstown? Skip over his plaque if you choose, but Biggio has a rightful claim. Period.

I think everyone agrees Biggio is a hall of famer. Deepster said that Biggio was just as good offensively as Jeter, which he is not.

 

[Husky25]

I think everyone agrees Biggio is a hall of famer. Deepster said that Biggio was just as good offensively as Jeter, which he is not.

I love Dove's contribution to all of the boards , but make no mistake. He clearly referred to Biggio as a compiler and implied it as negative.

 

[superjohn]

I don't give a care what you call Biggio, just don't call him as good as Jeter.

 

[Husky25]

I understand what you are saying...sort of. I don't recall, so I'll just assume you are a Yankee fan (Otherwise the all out Jeter Defense doesn't make sense). For the record, I compared Biggio to Cal Ripkin, another first ballot, sure fire HoFer.

Deepster does have a point with his "compiler" argument. Pretty much all HOFers are compilers (except maybe for Sandy Koufax) and if Biggio played in a major baseball market, the last 40 posts don't happen.

 

[zyron]

Deepster does have a point with his "compiler" argument. Pretty much all HOFers are compilers (except maybe for Sandy Koufax) and if Biggio played in a major baseball market, the last 40 posts don't happen.

One player who got no HOF consideration who was a offensive force was Albert Belle. Horrible human being but was a monster hitter. If he was able to play a few more years he would of had to be in.

 

[Husky25]

One player who got no HOF consideration who was a offensive force was Albert Belle. Horrible human being but was a monster hitter. If he was able to play a few more years he would of had to be in.

No one said the system wasn't broke...but Biggio is a deserving HoFer.

 

[Dove]

If I was a voter I would look at Biggio andpretty much ALMOST vote him in. I did like him a lot as a player and he had great value as a positionalplayer. But washe among the best? He now symbolizes the Hall of the Very Good.

 

[Husky25]

If I was a voter I would look at Biggio andpretty much ALMOST vote him in. I did like him a lot as a player and he had great value as a positionalplayer. But washe among the best? He now symbolizes the Hall of the Very Good.

Phil Rizzuto is president of that club. Billy Maz is VP.

 

[Dove]

Rizzutto getting in was am mockery of the process.

Back to Biggio...take out his cup of coffee and I rate his seasons as:

5 were meh
7 were good
2 were real good
5 were great

He batted in front of juicer Caminitti and probable juicers in Bags and Berkman. Deepster would score 100 runs in front of them. And I think Biggio juiced.

 

[G0UCONN]

While on topic of middle IFers....how does Jeff Kent not get in? He was a jacka ss and all but by numbers as a 2Bman....he belongs

 

[mauconnfan]

I understand what you are saying...sort of. I don't recall, so I'll just assume you are a Yankee fan (Otherwise the all out Jeter Defense doesn't make sense). For the record, I compared Biggio to Cal Ripkin, another first ballot, sure fire HoFer.

Deepster does have a point with his "compiler" argument. Pretty much all HOFers are compilers (except maybe for Sandy Koufax) and if Biggio played in a major baseball market, the last 40 posts don't happen.

Ripken is a better comparison. I mean 29 points on the batting average is a lot, so the Jeter comparison isn't as close although many of the other numbers are closer.

 

[Excalibur]

I'm not comparing who is the better player and factoring in postseasons or "clutch" play. I'm saying, to label Biggio as a "compiler" in a negative way, Jeter skates off without that label because he had a higher batting average in a number of seasons?

If that's the case? Biggio has similar or better totals in many cumulative categories. Safe to say he was the more consistent player over a longer period of time? Or is Jeter just a "compiler" too that stayed on and socked away enough hits over his last 3-4 years to make him look better?

You are really dismissive of the gap in batting average. 30 points over a career is a big freaking gap . . .

 

[Excalibur]

If I was a voter I would look at Biggio andpretty much ALMOST vote him in. I did like him a lot as a player and he had great value as a positionalplayer. But washe among the best? He now symbolizes the Hall of the Very Good.

There are lots of guys who were very good. Not many were very good for a very long time.