The 2014 HOF ballot...who's in?

[Husky25]

Pedro was absolutely dominant for a 7 year stretch. He was merely really good from 1993-1996, 2004-2006, and 2008. But during his dominance, you watched him pitch and went to the bathroom when the offense was up, not the other way around, as is typical.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

They banned Lebetard....they should have banned the person who voted for J.T Snow.

I don't think he did it for publicity in the self-promotion sense, and I am glad he did it.

 

[tzznandrew]

Pedro was absolutely dominant for a 7 year stretch. He was merely really good from 1993-1996, 2004-2006, and 2008. But during his dominance, you watched him pitch and went to the bathroom when the offense was up, not the other way around, as is typical.

His ERA was high in 2004 (3.90), but somehow he still came in fourth in the Cy Young voting.

But yeah. I don't remember Clemens in the 1980s--and he was obviously good from his Toronto-NYY-Houston days, but even he wasn't as must see as Pedro was, especially 1999-2000. Perhaps because we all knew he was cheating at that point... I don't know, because his 1.87 ERA when he was 42 was clearly fishy.

 

[60'sfan]

His ERA was high in 2004 (3.90), but somehow he still came in fourth in the Cy Young voting.

But yeah. I don't remember Clemens in the 1980s--and he was obviously good from his Toronto-NYY-Houston days, but even he wasn't as must see as Pedro was, especially 1999-2000. Perhaps because we all knew he was cheating at that point... I don't know, because his 1.87 ERA when he was 42 was clearly fishy.

Pedro was beginning to feel his age in 2004. He had a dominant game in the World Series which led to a five year deal with the Mets. They got one good year out of him and the rest is history. I agree, people came out in droves when he was scheduled to pitch.

The Rocket man had a lot of fan appeal too. In his early days with the Sox, he was as good as any in the came and probably wasn't juicing then either. He was absolutely dominant in 1986 when he went 24-4. He also had two games when he struck out 20 batters. He seemed to fade a little when he turned 30 in but the Sox weren't that great then either. His miraculous comeback with Toronto in probably will cost him the Hall.

 

[Husky25]

His ERA was high in 2004 (3.90), but somehow he still came in fourth in the Cy Young voting.

But yeah. I don't remember Clemens in the 1980s--and he was obviously good from his Toronto-NYY-Houston days, but even he wasn't as must see as Pedro was, especially 1999-2000. Perhaps because we all knew he was cheating at that point... I don't know, because his 1.87 ERA when he was 42 was clearly fishy.

Clemens was Dominant from 1986-roughly 1991 or so. The Red Sox W/L margin mirrored Clemens'. They were basically a .500 team when he did not pitch. Hurst, Boyd, - and later - Seaver were phenomenal in '86, but the Sox don't make the Playoffs in '88 or '90 without Clemens.

 

[Waquoit]

...but the Sox don't make the Playoffs in '88 or '90 without Clemens.

Where he was consistantly upstaged by Dave Stewart. Actually, the Sox don't make the playoffs those two years without Mike Boddicker.

 

[Husky25]

Where he was consistantly upstaged by Dave Stewart. Actually, the Sox don't make the playoffs those two years without Mike Boddicker.

The A's were just the better all around team.

 

[mauconnfan]

Red Sox fans are funny throwing Rog under Mike Boddicker……what a joke……..!!

Rog was really good, but Pedro's 4-5 year run during the ROID years was simply the best ever……the ERA was amazing, maybe he was using too, probably was who knows, but his numbers are amazing

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Pedro will make the Hall easily.

 

[Chin Diesel]

What helps players like Pedro, Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas is that their bodies did exactly what's supposed to happen when you hit your mid-30's.

Their bodies broke down and their numbers quickly deteriorated.

The biggest hit against the Roiders is that their numbers and playing from age 34-40+ stayed constant or improved. Which is the easiest red flag to wave.

 

[Dove]

What helps players like Pedro, Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas is that their bodies did exactly what's supposed to happen when you hit your mid-30's.

Their bodies broke down and their numbers quickly deteriorated.

The biggest hit against the Roiders is that their numbers and playing from age 34-40+ stayed constant or improved. Which is the easiest red flag to wave.

At age 38 Frank Thomas found it again finishing 4th in the MVP voting. 39 jacks and 114 knocked in (in 137 games!!). At age 39 he yanked 26 home runs driving in 95. That was an improvement after two seasons of 108 games played combined.

Things that make us go hmmmmmm.

 

[Chin Diesel]

At age 38 Frank Thomas found it again finishing 4th in the MVP voting. 39 jacks and 114 knocked in (in 137 games!!). At age 39 he yanked 26 home runs driving in 95. That was an improvement after two seasons of 108 games played combined.

Things that make us go hmmmmmm.

I get that with Thomas but I give him some leeway because those were an aberration around a steady decline. And it was only the power numbers that were still high. All his other numbers for hitting were down. Those were closer to Dave Kingman numbers than the Williams/Gerhig numbers he was putting up his first ten years.

Much like if Clemens or Bonds had one or two seasons like they were doing surrounded by sub-par numbers the rest of the way. It was that they were consistently performing well above what a 40 year old should be able to do.

 

[mauconnfan]

I get that with Thomas but I give him some leeway because those were an aberration around a steady decline. And it was only the power numbers that were still high. All his other numbers for hitting were down. Those were closer to Dave Kingman numbers than the Williams/Gerhig numbers he was putting up his first ten years.

Much like if Clemens or Bonds had one or two seasons like they were doing surrounded by sub-par numbers the rest of the way. It was that they were consistently performing well above what a 40 year old should be able to do.

He was also saved by the DH in a big way so that's why I'm not sold on him but whatever, I knew he was going…...

 

[G0UCONN]

There is nearly zero rational doubt Thomas juiced..but never caught...

 

[tzznandrew]

There is nearly zero rational doubt Thomas juiced..but never caught...

Eh, there is a ton of rational doubt. Frank Thomas was complaining about steriods in baseball since 1995--long before people cared. I don't think you juice and also are one of the leaders against it. It's silly. And entirely different, say, than Palmiero.

That said, sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if it came back that he had juiced.

 

[StoweD210]

What helps players like Pedro, Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas is that their bodies did exactly what's supposed to happen when you hit your mid-30's.

Their bodies broke down and their numbers quickly deteriorated.

The biggest hit against the Roiders is that their numbers and playing from age 34-40+ stayed constant or improved. Which is the easiest red flag to wave.

That's fallout of the "steroid era" (Not there's any way to prove the era is over and everyone is clean now): You used to be able to watch a player break a record or perform at high level beyond their prime and just appreciate it. Now, you have to wonder if a player received some pharmaceutical assistance along the way even if they haven't been associated with any suspicious activity.

Maybe a guy who maintains his numbers into his late 30s and early 40s is one of those rare individuals who, through good genes and good luck (no freak or recurring injuries), can play longer than normal. It just seems like those sort of performances are happening more often, which makes you wonder if all of those guys are that gifted or if they are finding another way to maintain their effectiveness.