Streaks of five or more Final Fours (ND-related)

[alexrgct]

Making the final four is always a great accomplishment. Making it five or more times in a row? That's remarkable! Even Tennessee, who made four consecutive F4s on plural occasions, never got to five in a row. Those who have? LSU from 2004 through 2008, Stanford from 2008 through 2013, UConn from 2000 through 2004, and UConn from 2008 through 2014 (and still going!).

Notre Dame, meanwhile, has a current streak of four consecutive F4s and looks for all the world like a program fit to win a regional bracket in 2014-15. To consider how good Jewell Lloyd has been, how some of the other returning players have a great chance to improve, and how much of a threat Briana Turner will be, well, how can the Irish not be a top four team wire-to-wire?

Here's the thing: whereas three programs have made five or more F4s in a row, Only UConn has made the most of the opportunities. After all, fully eight of UConn's nine national championships have occurred during Final Four runs. Meanwhile, Stanford suffered two near misses (couldn't overcome Candace and the LVs in the 2008 NC game, lost in shocking fashion to Texas A&M in the 2011 national semis) and still hasn't won an NC since 1992. Similarly, LSU lost the 2004 national semis by two points and the 2008 national semis by one.

One conclusion: this is just another example of how UConn is like no other program. Sure, we'd love to have the 2001, 2008, 2011, and 2012 national semis back, but those stings are certainly made up for by 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010, 2013, and 2014.

Conversely, the near-misses, but mostly not-so-near misses, keep piling up for ND: a national championship game that really got away in 2011, two resounding defeats in the 2012 and 2014 NC games, and one convincing loss in the 2013 national semis.

My question: if you consider why UConn has succeeded so spectacularly and why ND has experienced some painful losses during its current run of Final Fours, what, if anything, can ND do to turn that streak into the long-awaited second NC?

 

[Sluconn Husky]

and why ND has experienced some painful losses during its current run of Final Fours

Three of those losses came to great teams, UConn twice and Baylor. (I consider the '12-'13 Huskies great by the end of the tourney.) The A&M loss is a bit different but that was still a close defeat to a team that had beaten a very strong Baylor team in the Elite Eight.

I don't think there's much shame in those losses. They've just run into a few goliaths. I think they got as much out of their talent as was possible those years, and they'll continue to be dangerous. The '15 squad could be special.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

UC0nn has succeeded because it has almost always been the best team. Notre Dame in many of those cases, while very good, was not conclusively the best team. Mix that with one "upset" each, perhaps going against Notre Dame in some particular game and going for UConn, and you end up with the results documented.

I always struggle to understand why UConn fans do not want to simply admit that their teams are generally better than the competition. I wish my teams in various sports, college and pro, were as capable as UConn WBB has proven to be.

 

[Orangutan]

what, if anything, can ND do to turn that streak into the long-awaited second NC?

Play better basketball.

I don't think there needs to be much of an inquest. The last three years ND has just ran into better teams/players. The best player on the floor is usually on the winning team. So it was with Griner in 2012 and Stewart the last two years.

What to do? Hope Brianna Turner becomes the best player in the country before she graduates.

 

[alexrgct]

Of course uconn has fielded better teams. They went to 15 final fours and won nine NCs. But Notre Dame had a great chance to win it all in 2011 and failed to do so. Subsequent seasons were up and down in small parts. They hung with Baylor for a bit in the 2012 finals, but the engine of that team (Novosel, Peters, Mallory) was ineffective as all get out. They looked to have UConn's number in 2013...until a sleeping giant awoke and torched them. And 2014 wasn't close, even if Achonwa's injury hurt the whole team, not just Natalie.

But even if your argument is that they've simply not been good enough (though I'm sure 2011 continuously comes back to haunt the Irish), it's at least possible they're good enough by March/April 2015...as long as UConn isn't every bit as good as they figure to be.

 

[Tonyc]

ND has lacked the height to win NCs. Ruth Riley was the only one and that was when UConn had two AAs Shea and Svet out to injuries and Diana as a freshman hit 1 for 15. UConn has been a complete team. Well rounded and most importantly disciplined and confident. The ole saying repetition is the mother of skill and Geno instills that in his players. Some cant see it but UConn mentally is prepared so much farther then any other team in WCBB it will take years for opponents to catch up. Yes Geno gets the players and the reason why is because of what he's built and he is selective. He doesnt take anybody. You need to be a player who will make a total commitment to play for him and the rewards are endless forever. Its not about winning at UConn, its about what you become.

 

[bballnut90]

Making the final four is always a great accomplishment. Making it five or more times in a row? That's remarkable! Even Tennessee, who made four consecutive F4s on plural occasions, never got to five in a row. Those who have? LSU from 2004 through 2008, Stanford from 2008 through 2013, UConn from 2000 through 2004, and UConn from 2008 through 2014 (and still going!).

Notre Dame, meanwhile, has a current streak of four consecutive F4s and looks for all the world like a program fit to win a regional bracket in 2014-15. To consider how good Jewell Lloyd has been, how some of the other returning players have a great chance to improve, and how much of a threat Briana Turner will be, well, how can the Irish not be a top four team wire-to-wire?

Here's the thing: whereas three programs have made five or more F4s in a row, Only UConn has made the most of the opportunities. After all, fully eight of UConn's nine national championships have occurred during Final Four runs. Meanwhile, Stanford suffered two near misses (couldn't overcome Candace and the LVs in the 2008 NC game, lost in shocking fashion to Texas A&M in the 2011 national semis) and still hasn't won an NC since 1992. Similarly, LSU lost the 2004 national semis by two points and the 2008 national semis by one.

One conclusion: this is just another example of how UConn is like no other program. Sure, we'd love to have the 2001, 2008, 2011, and 2012 national semis back, but those stings are certainly made up for by 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2010, 2013, and 2014.

Conversely, the near-misses, but mostly not-so-near misses, keep piling up for ND: a national championship game that really got away in 2011, two resounding defeats in the 1012 and 2014 NC games, and one convincing loss in the 2013 national semis.

My question: if you consider why UConn has succeeded so spectacularly and why ND has experienced some painful losses during its current run of Final Fours, what, if anything, can ND do to turn that streak into the long-awaited second NC?

Couple things to note--2010 has to be classified as a near miss for Stanford....had they capitalized on UCONN's dismal first half they easily could have had a 15-20 point lead going into the 2nd half. And I'm just getting picky, but I wouldn't classify 2008 Stanford as a near miss, as Tennessee was firmly in control wire to wire, winning by 16 points.

In response to the question though, Notre Dame has simply faced more talented teams. Their best shot was against Texas A&M but Diggins and Co were young and inexperienced (they were only a 2 seed.) In 2012 nobody was beating Baylor with Griner/Sims, in 2013 they had significantly less talent than UCONN which finally showed in the Final Four, and in 2014 Notre Dame had their best squad but lost Achonwa and UCONN had a great team.

Diggins really brought Notre Dame back on the map and as a result the recruiting efforts have improved immensely. When will Notre Dame win a title? No one is touching UCONN next year, but Notre Dame's best shot will be in 2015 when they have a starting 5 of:
Brianna Turner-So
Taya Reimer-Jr
Jewel Loyd-Sr
Michaela Mabrey-Sr
Lindsey Allen-Jr

McGraw is one of the best coaches in women's basketball, and as long as the recruiting efforts continue to be there I think she'll nab a 2nd title at some point, but she's just faced tough luck going up against 2 undefeated teams in the 2 years where she's had her best teams.

 

[mhshuskies]

The players are a reflection of the coaching. The greatest difference in the NC was the commitment to defense by UCONN. It was a ridiculous disparity between the two teams. That is the sign of collective good for the team is more important than individual highlights (headbands, fashion statements, etc). The WE is more important than the ME.

 

[Tonyc]

Uconn is so much more prepared to execute then any other team and its not even close. Especially on defense. Under the pressure of a NC or any Championship the thing that seperates UConn from everybody else is precise execution. Everybody is on the same page thats why there are top recruits that Geno doesnt take. Youve heard it before its all about attitude, dedication and commitment. Geno's ole saying quoted by Bria "You practice til you cant get it wrong" That slogan tells it all. Its different at UConn. Any of you who have sat in at a practice know that. Practice is not easy, its not non shalante, its not ok I got it now. Its constant drilling and drilling and drilling. Practicing the wrong things only engraves them into head, and muscle memory. Practicing the right way only engraves them into your head and muscle memory. When the pressure is on and your a little nervous, you dont have to look for someone to step up, as a team you execute what youve been taught and let it happen.