Screaming And Cursing Coaches

[JavaMan]

[LINK TO FULL ARTICLE]

 

[HuskyNan]

As I was reading the article, my first thought is that the young women interviewed seem to have a good bead on the difference between screaming and abusing. My second thought was that there are far more "UConn types" out there than some UConn fans are willing to credit. I'd love for any of those girls to be Huskies, if they were a fit. And my third thought was that Cara Ursin nailed Geno's greatest attribute:

Still, coaches need to tailor their approaches, Ursin said. "It goes back to knowing your players. A coach has to know which players he can yell at. He has to know how to build them up so that they can be effective and not be crushed."

 

[BroadwayVa]

As I was reading the article, my first thought is that the young women interviewed seem to have a good bead on the difference between screaming and abusing. My second thought was that there are far more "UConn types" out there than some UConn fans are willing to credit. I'd love for any of those girls to be Huskies, if they were a fit. And my third thought was that Cara Ursin nailed Geno's greatest attribute:

Still, coaches need to tailor their approaches, Ursin said. "It goes back to knowing your players. A coach has to know which players he can yell at. He has to know how to build them up so that they can be effective and not be crushed."

I coached for a while---I was a screamer, abuser (in today's terms), no cursing.
Then I bought a puppy--she frustrated me, I screamed I cursed, I yelled--after about 11 months one day I said good girl a few times and she did what I wanted.
I learned that if I could convey what I wanted she would do it.
I used that in BB --it worked. Communications is about making people understand what you are saying. Screaming, cursing only show frustration and often get in the way of communication. No I was no Geno (there is only one) but we had FUN.

 

[Ukonnfan]

View attachment 13506​

[LINK TO FULL ARTICLE]

Thank Java man. I watched a Duke womens game and was apalled at the stuff coming out of the coaches mouth. If your reading this and what I said makes you mad, bet you talk like her, and think its right to have a trash mouth..sorry, just saying. Theres no need for it.

No ill will intended by me. Im wondering if John Wooden spoke like that... Don't even try to visit my house. ....I'm waiting for allegations against many, many other coaches...no kiddin.

 

[Geew1992]

I know my daughter has had plenty of coaches that scream and curse. I told her to listen to what they say. Not how they say it. She has a pretty thick spine and has gotten use to it. She even tells some of her teammates who are use to being yelled at what I told her.

 

[bags27]

As I was reading the article, my first thought is that the young women interviewed seem to have a good bead on the difference between screaming and abusing. My second thought was that there are far more "UConn types" out there than some UConn fans are willing to credit. I'd love for any of those girls to be Huskies, if they were a fit. And my third thought was that Cara Ursin nailed Geno's greatest attribute:
Still, coaches need to tailor their approaches, Ursin said. "It goes back to knowing your players. A coach has to know which players he can yell at. He has to know how to build them up so that they can be effective and not be crushed."

I think this is the big point, what is screaming and what is abuse. When are coaches really trying to motivate the player to succeed in public and when are coaches taking their frustrations out on the player and humiliating the player in public. In other words, trying to show the crowd that the players, not the coach, is losing the game.

The trick for the coach is not simply knowing who best thrives under the carrot and who under the stick, because that suggests inequity of treatment. It might be okay on a winning team with otherwise great morale to have a "precious", but in most cases this will backfire. I believe the secret to being able to yell effectively at your players publicly is to make sure they know privately how much you care about them (so that it is never abuse, no matter how it looks) and that your yelling is--whether effective or not--your motivational tactic, and to have seniors transmit that understanding to freshmen. That's why Stewie took Lou out to dinner or why Kim can look abusive to us on the sideline, but her players don't read it that way.

And why UConn kids still quake when Geno yells at them, but they also know: 1. he loves them and wants the best for them; 2. that he's always done it and someday they'll be in the WNBA laughing with the older alumns about it.

 

[UcMiami]

I think people are also equating volume and swear words with possibly abusive treatment - a quiet voice and proper 'church' language can be just as abusive. We all point to JPM's press conferences as 'throwing the team under the bus' and she never swears or raises her voice in those situations. Volume and choice of words really has nothing to do with 'abuse', some of the most cutting statements are delivered motto voce.

Nan - liked your post, but I would say what the players quoted said is only a tiny bit of what makes a player 'Uconn' material. It is certainly, with I think one exception, an indication that they do not require the pampering that many people think of when they talk of the softening of modern children, but it only goes so far in defining the lines they have personally drawn.

I think one of the biggest issues in team dynamics and coaching behavior is the balancing of expectations based on skills and making clear distinction between behavioral issues and skill issues - the last person on the bench and the star player should be treated equally on behavioral issues - being on time, effort, attention to coaching, concentration in practice, supportive action to all teammates, etc.; those issues do not depend on the skills and talents of a player, and letting a star slide on something and coming down hard on a bench player is 'unfair'. Every player should be expected to know where to be on the floor and which shots to take and which passes to make, but the quality of the pass or the accuracy of the shot is something that is not going to be equal.

And I think the dynamic of the HC and assistants is a huge part of how a team responds to coaching - the more empowered and respected the assistants are by the HC, and the more diverse their behavioral traits the better it is for the team - CD talked about how she and Geno and she and the assistants behave towards individual players, if Shea or Marisa are riding a player hard, Geno or CD become supportive and encouraging on that day or through that week, and the reverse is true, and the same between CD and Geno. The idea being that a player never leaves a practice or goes through a week without knowing someone on the staff is in 'their corner' and 'believes in them'.

In looking at the 'cases' that have come up this year - the instability in coaching staffs at Duke and KY are 'red flags' that should have worried administrators because it speaks about the dynamic within the coaching staff. The situation with Swoopes, and at SFA are with new hires and might be more about changed expectations and styles than about abuse (Swoopes with the number of transfers is likely something a little larger.) And looking around at other top programs, the turnstile at MD in terms of assistants stands out as worrying even though their are no complaints. Nebraska and Iowa State feel different as they come against long term coaches with pretty stable staffs.

 

[bags27]

You have infinite more experience and insight into this than do I, UcMiami, but I do think a great deal of this can't be prescriptive: It depends on (at least these, and I'm sure more):
1 the social climate: what kids (and their parents) will put up with or what advantage they see in acting adversarial;
2 technology: increase in social media creates reasons for opposition to current situation resulting in a transfer: the very fact that we're discussing this here might actually increase the likelihood of transfer from these very schools we're discussing.
3 most importantly, the human touch. the very words spoken by one coach that are labeled abusive are considered encouraging when spoken by another.

Because esp. of #3, it's maybe not so accurate to reverse engineer Geno's relationship with his ass't coaches and say that's an excellent model for players. It certainly works for them and it's something we all celebrate. But it can't be replicated because of the human element, and will play out differently in other circumstances. For example, on some teams those very coaching dynamics as expressed through different personalities might be perceived by players as their having a weak and irresolute head coach.

 

[Zorro]

"Janelle, you are letting Nykesha play out of position again! How in the &%*&((&## many time do I have to tell you!"
Perfect example of knowing whom to yell at and whom not to.

 

[HuskyNan]

"Janelle, you are letting Nykesha play out of position again! How in the &%*&((&## many time do I have to tell you!"
Perfect example of knowing whom to yell at and whom not to.

Well, he couldn't yell at Precious, could he?

 

[Zorro]

Well, he couldn't yell at Precious, could he?

Of course not, no way and not at all. Janelle, on the other hand, was "the toughest guy he ever coached." Incidentally, it seems that Geno has not been screaming nearly as much lately. He hasn't had to, mebbe.

 

[VAMike23]

This one of the many areas where CD has been extremely valuable over the years -- smoothing over Geno's "bad cop" outbursts with some "good cop" encouragement after the fact, when needed (sometimes it might not be needed). I'm sure some assistants do similar things but CD has the kind of stature in the program that she can go toe-to-toe with Geno if need be, and players know it. She speaks for the program every bit as much as he does when it comes to these kinds of daily struggles. Not sure this is the case in very many programs.

As good of a psychologist as Geno is, it's really Chris & Geno together that excel in this area.

 

[JordyG]

I think this is the big point, what is screaming and what is abuse. When are coaches really trying to motivate the player to succeed in public and when are coaches taking their frustrations out on the player and humiliating the player in public. In other words, trying to show the crowd that the players, not the coach, is losing the game.

The trick for the coach is not simply knowing who best thrives under the carrot and who under the stick, because that suggests inequity of treatment. It might be okay on a winning team with otherwise great morale to have a "precious", but in most cases this will backfire. I believe the secret to being able to yell effectively at your players publicly is to make sure they know privately how much you care about them (so that it is never abuse, no matter how it looks) and that your yelling is--whether effective or not--your motivational tactic, and to have seniors transmit that understanding to freshmen. That's why Stewie took Lou out to dinner or why Kim can look abusive to us on the sideline, but her players don't read it that way.

And why UConn kids still quake when Geno yells at them, but they also know: 1. he loves them and wants the best for them; 2. that he's always done it and someday they'll be in the WNBA laughing with the older alumns about it.

I agree 100% Well almost. Mulkey looks and acts like a jerk on the sidelines. I'd never seen a coach, frustrated by a missed pass punch/push her assistant before Mulkey. One of your key sentences was having seniors transmit that understanding to underclassmen. Even when a coach conveys how much he cares privately to a player his screaming and baiting will still make him look like a jerk to the player; and a schizophrenic one at that. Players often need someone they can relate to that makes them understand. And goofing privately on the coach really helps teammates bond.

 

[UcMiami]

This one of the many areas where CD has been extremely valuable over the years -- smoothing over Geno's "bad cop" outbursts with some "good cop" encouragement after the fact, when needed (sometimes it might not be needed). I'm sure some assistants do similar things but CD has the kind of stature in the program that she can go toe-to-toe with Geno if need be, and players know it. She speaks for the program every bit as much as he does when it comes to these kinds of daily struggles. Not sure this is the case in very many programs.

As good of a psychologist as Geno is, it's really Chris & Geno together that excel in this area.

great point - but, I think it goes further in that both Marisa and Shea have been empowered similarly by Geno and CD and the players feel that as well. They may not have the stature of 30 years, but their opinions are respected within the coaches room and on the floor.

Bags - on your #3 and further exposition - I think the important thing with the good cop/bad cop is that they both are giving the same direction, it is just the delivery is different - one is a harsh 'you keep getting it wrong' kind of criticism and the other is 'I know you can get this right' kind of support - the message remains the same - you screwed up, but one says you never get it right and the other says I believe you will get it right next time.

 

[Kibitzer]

This one of the many areas where CD has been extremely valuable over the years -- smoothing over Geno's "bad cop" outbursts with some "good cop" encouragement after the fact, when needed (sometimes it might not be needed). . . . As good of a psychologist as Geno is, it's really Chris & Geno together that excel in this area.

In Bridgeport I had a brief chat with CD which, in a small way, reinforces your thoughtful comments about Geno and CD. It went something like this:

ME: "Chris, my wife has forever asserted what a terrible nag I am - but then I watched Geno interviewed on TV and he said that you were the biggest nag of all."

CD: [smiling] "Well, maybe that's because Geno needs so much nagging."
​

Think about it. Where else in the wcbb universe could such a fan-coach conversation take place?

​

 

[BroadwayVa]

Thank Java man. I watched a Duke womens game and was apalled at the stuff coming out of the coaches mouth. If your reading this and what I said makes you mad, bet you talk like her, and think its right to have a trash mouth..sorry, just saying. Theres no need for it.

No ill will intended by me. Im wondering if John Wooden spoke like that... Don't even try to visit my house. ....I'm waiting for allegations against many, many other coaches...no kiddin.

UCMiami may correct me but everything I read or heard about Wooden was he was not a fan of cursing or swearing, he got his message across by communicating in terms Basketball players understood--X's and O's, defense, fundamental, and run and rebound.

 

[Zorro]

Wooden wasn't Italian.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Wooden wasn't Italian.

Pinocchio was Italian, wasn't he? Pinocchio was also wooden, I think.

 

[Carnac]

UCMiami may correct me but everything I read or heard about Wooden was he was not a fan of cursing or swearing, he got his message across by communicating in terms Basketball players understood--X's and O's, defense, fundamental, and run and rebound.

Wooden had one other communication tool.......the bench. Which he said was extremely effective.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Wooden had one other communication tool..the bench. Which he said was extremely effective.

Have you noticed how EFFECTIVELY Geno uses it??? Wonder where he picked up that trick??? Of it is made out of Wood it's Wooden..

 

[BroadwayVa]

Pinocchio was Italian, wasn't he? Pinocchio was also wooden, I think.

Holy smokes---Wooden was Italian (I always thought he was from Indiana).

 

[BroadwayVa]

Wooden wasn't Italian.

If he wasn't he should have been then he could have communicated with his hands. (Think about that one)

 

[BroadwayVa]

great point - but, I think it goes further in that both Marisa and Shea have been empowered similarly by Geno and CD and the players feel that as well. They may not have the stature of 30 years, but their opinions are respected within the coaches room and on the floor.

Bags - on your #3 and further exposition - I think the important thing with the good cop/bad cop is that they both are giving the same direction, it is just the delivery is different - one is a harsh 'you keep getting it wrong' kind of criticism and the other is 'I know you can get this right' kind of support - the message remains the same - you screwed up, but one says you never get it right and the other says I believe you will get it right next time.

I was with Morgan Valley (behind the bench) while she was an assistant at Towson --I left disgusted with her coach-he was a puppet master, not a coach. She learned, then left smart woman.
This goes to the trust Geno shows in his Assistants. They were hired for their smarts and when they proved it they were given loose reins.

On the second paragraph: Christine was not the Good Cop or Geno the Bad cop. Like parents they took hard positions and protective positions depending on the situation. I've seen Christine tear into players (as much as she could tear)--she knows what she wants and she will get it.
You too have seen the caring Geno --the pats on the back as Gabby comes out after being less than successful.

If there is a team of 4 that is better, works harder, cares about each player and teaches better--you know they don't exist.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I think people are also equating volume and swear words with possibly abusive treatment - a quiet voice and proper 'church' language can be just as abusive. We all point to JPM's press conferences as 'throwing the team under the bus' and she never swears or raises her voice in those situations. Volume and choice of words really has nothing to do with 'abuse', some of the most cutting statements are delivered motto voce.

Nan - liked your post, but I would say what the players quoted said is only a tiny bit of what makes a player 'Uconn' material. It is certainly, with I think one exception, an indication that they do not require the pampering that many people think of when they talk of the softening of modern children, but it only goes so far in defining the lines they have personally drawn.

I think one of the biggest issues in team dynamics and coaching behavior is the balancing of expectations based on skills and making clear distinction between behavioral issues and skill issues - the last person on the bench and the star player should be treated equally on behavioral issues - being on time, effort, attention to coaching, concentration in practice, supportive action to all teammates, etc.; those issues do not depend on the skills and talents of a player, and letting a star slide on something and coming down hard on a bench player is 'unfair'. Every player should be expected to know where to be on the floor and which shots to take and which passes to make, but the quality of the pass or the accuracy of the shot is something that is not going to be equal.

And I think the dynamic of the HC and assistants is a huge part of how a team responds to coaching - the more empowered and respected the assistants are by the HC, and the more diverse their behavioral traits the better it is for the team - CD talked about how she and Geno and she and the assistants behave towards individual players, if Shea or Marisa are riding a player hard, Geno or CD become supportive and encouraging on that day or through that week, and the reverse is true, and the same between CD and Geno. The idea being that a player never leaves a practice or goes through a week without knowing someone on the staff is in 'their corner' and 'believes in them'.

In looking at the 'cases' that have come up this year - the instability in coaching staffs at Duke and KY are 'red flags' that should have worried administrators because it speaks about the dynamic within the coaching staff. The situation with Swoopes, and at SFA are with new hires and might be more about changed expectations and styles than about abuse (Swoopes with the number of transfers is likely something a little larger.) And looking around at other top programs, the turnstile at MD in terms of assistants stands out as worrying even though their are no complaints. Nebraska and Iowa State feel different as they come against long term coaches with pretty stable staffs.

First Para: As in all times children, tribes, etc are labeled by the actions of a few. The squeaky wheel or loudest mouth gets the attention. There are more aggressive, entitled, young today than ever before (larger population). You see this by the number of legal suits and articles of complaints that damage coaches and schools. You are correct that there are more hard working, accepting coaching kids than those suing. As in every age--good guys rarely are acknowledge (silent majority ?)
But coaches, schools, teachers, Profs, don't need protection from the majority . oh, yes, I do admit that those who actually are abusive and predatory must be cleaned out of the systems. Not being a Judge I don't have the where with all to know abuser from tough coach.

 

[UcMiami]

UCMiami may correct me but everything I read or heard about Wooden was he was not a fan of cursing or swearing, he got his message across by communicating in terms Basketball players understood--X's and O's, defense, fundamental, and run and rebound.

It was a different society, and he had a very different upbringing than Geno. The use of blasphemy in public and in private is much more acceptable, though there is still a distinction between that and the cruder kinds of 'curse' words. And some of the words that started as 'vulgar' have become disassociated with their original meaning most of the time - word and s word becoming as common and carrying the same meaning as 'damn it' used to.