Scab refs blow a big call tonite

[BlueMAB]

You're arguing against a point I didn't make. If the board of a fortune 500 company steers the company in the wrong direction and its performance suffers, the CEO will take the fall for it. Just like a head coach with an underperforming team, it comes with the job. He has done an absolutely miserable job of presenting the case to the fans, treating all of us like we're four and can't tell there is BS spewing from every league spokesman about the quality of the officiating. Goodell needs to grow a pair and tell the owners what they don't want to hear... that this rounding error they're fighting over is not even close to worth the damage it's doing to the reputation of the league.

You responded to the point I made by arguing about a point I wasn't making.

How do you know what Goodell is or isn't telling them behind closed doors?

Why are the owners to blame rather than the referees? The reputation of the league isnt' going to suffer any lasting damage from a season full of sh!tty officiating. The fans stuck with the NFL through shortened seasons. NFL season ticket holders pay for sh!tty preseason games at full price. There is an entire industry based on fantasy teams.

The NFL will be fine and the owners know that, which is why, IMO, the referees locked out will be forced to concede more than the owners. The NFL is bigger than the officials, not the other way around.

People will whine and complain, they'll call up sports radio, they'll post on message boards. Then on Thursday night, Sunday afternoon, and Monday night they'll be glued to their tv watching the sport they love.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Again, I disagree. Ratings are already down this season and keep in mind, the amount of money we're talking about is minuscule to the NFL. It is legitimately a rounding error in their profits. And regardless of whose fault it is, the league loses in the eyes of the public because the average fan is far more inclined to side with the fairly average referees than the billionaires who own the teams. Just like Goodell taking the fall for the faults of the league, it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, because that is just how it goes. If I'm one of the higher ups for the refs, after this debacle I'm feeling pretty good. These guys all have second jobs and I just don't believe the NFL will go a full season (and more importantly, the postseason) with these awful refs when the money being disputed is important really only if you want to "win" the dispute.

 

[BlueMAB]

Again, I disagree. Ratings are already down this season

I said "lasting" damage.

So what the ratings are down for a few weeks? Even if they take a hit for the entire season, most fans will stay, the ones lost will come back. It's been proven time and again. The NFL is far more marketable than the NHL and can better absorb the hit.

You can call it a rounding error, but when you're dealing with unions, once you agree to certain concessions they tend to be permanent. It is incredibly difficult to roll things back once offered. I don't know what the sticking points are for the disagreements, but if it's a 401k vs a pension, The "rounding error" today isn't as nearly as important as the fact the those two retirement plans are completely different and have major impacts to the bottom line. Defined contribution plans are far easier to plan, much more affordable and far less risky for employers. Defined benefit plans are helping to bankrupt the auto industry. What could amount to a rounding error today can grow into serious dollars depending on the foundation of the retirement package.

 

[businesslawyer]

You're arguing against a point I didn't make. If the board of a fortune 500 company steers the company in the wrong direction and its performance suffers, the CEO will take the fall for it. Just like a head coach with an underperforming team, it comes with the job. He has done an absolutely miserable job of presenting the case to the fans, treating all of us like we're four and can't tell there is BS spewing from every league spokesman about the quality of the officiating. Goodell needs to grow a pair and tell the owners what they don't want to hear... that this rounding error they're fighting over is not even close to worth the damage it's doing to the reputation of the league.

You know he hasn't how?

 

[WhereistheDove?]

You know he hasn't how?

again, it doesn't matter if he has or hasn't, the perception in the public is that the league screwed up and as the figurehead of the league he should fall. It goes with the territory.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I said "lasting" damage.

So what the ratings are down for a few weeks? Even if they take a hit for the entire season, most fans will stay, the ones lost will come back. It's been proven time and again. The NFL is far more marketable than the NHL and can better absorb the hit.

You can call it a rounding error, but when you're dealing with unions, once you agree to certain concessions they tend to be permanent. It is incredibly difficult to roll things back once offered. I don't know what the sticking points are for the disagreements, but if it's a 401k vs a pension, The "rounding error" today isn't as nearly as important as the fact the those two retirement plans are completely different and have major impacts to the bottom line. Defined contribution plans are far easier to plan, much more affordable and far less risky for employers. Defined benefit plans are helping to bankrupt the auto industry. What could amount to a rounding error today can grow into serious dollars depending on the foundation of the retirement package.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8426996/owners-budge-latest-talks-fail-produce-deal-source-says

$100k per team to solve the pension issue.

 

[ZooCougar]

NFL should just embrace the idea of full time refs. Put them on a contract, or pay them a salary, let them have a 401k. I can't believe that the greatest sports league in the world is having an issue like this.

It is really entertaining however.

 

[whaler11]

NFL should just embrace the idea of full time refs. Put them on a contract, or pay them a salary, let them have a 401k. I can't believe that the greatest sports league in the world is having an issue like this.

It is really entertaining however.

I think they are resisting full time employees at all.

 

[BlueMAB]

NFL should just embrace the idea of full time refs. Put them on a contract, or pay them a salary, let them have a 401k. I can't believe that the greatest sports league in the world is having an issue like this.

It is really entertaining however.

They don't want a 401k, they want a pension. Huge difference.

 

[BlueMAB]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8426996/owners-budge-latest-talks-fail-produce-deal-source-says

$100k per team to solve the pension issue.

You obviously don't understand the difference between a pension and a 401k. And instead of addressing the point of my post you provided today's dollars. If you're not going to actually read my posts, don't bother responding to them.

$100k per team doesn't solve the "pension" issue. It's what it will cost each team today. Take a look at the State of CT's pension burden, maybe you'll learn something.


Lastly, if it's such a minor issue, which doesn't amount to much money, why are the refs refusing to live without it? They are part time employees and they are demanding a benefit that only about 12-15% of the population of full time employees receive. Why don't they take a 401k instead?

They are part time employees who work from August to January with a starting salary somewhere around $75k, and they won't work without a pension?? Must be nice.

 

[ZooCougar]

They don't want a 401k, they want a pension. Huge difference.

Other than the military and Congress, who gets pensions anymore? Isn't it getting to be less and less in the private sector?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

This is going to bring out the fiscal conservative in me and perhaps drive this thread to the Cesspool.

These pension plans, or as I call them, legalized Ponzie Schemes, are what's destroying state and municipal budgets. I don't blame the NFL one bit for holding the line here. Like Wing-U said.....these guys have it so rough as it is......

 

[BlueMAB]

Other than the military and Congress, who gets pensions anymore? Isn't it getting to be less and less in the private sector?

Yes, it is. Outside of government, the unions tend to be consolidated to highly specialized jobs where the employees aren't (or believe they aren't) easy to replace.

Most unions involve companies with a lot of manufacturing. Pratt/UTC, etc. The auto industry, steel workers, and other construction sectors. And of course many non-supervisory jobs in local, state, and federal government. Local government is having an easier time moving away from pensions to 401k style packages than state and feds I think.

 

[BlueMAB]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8429885/report-nfl-officials-reach-agreement-end-lockout

Looks like the NFL got most of what they wanted. They have to keep the pensions for current refs, but pensions will be phased out as all new hires will receive 401k contributions.

Just like 90% of the rest of the country. Except most people don't make an average of $150,000 for 6 months of work.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

You obviously don't understand the difference between a pension and a 401k. And instead of addressing the point of my post you provided today's dollars. If you're not going to actually read my posts, don't bother responding to them.

$100k per team doesn't solve the "pension" issue. It's what it will cost each team today. Take a look at the State of CT's pension burden, maybe you'll learn something.


Lastly, if it's such a minor issue, which doesn't amount to much money, why are the refs refusing to live without it? They are part time employees and they are demanding a benefit that only about 12-15% of the population of full time employees receive. Why don't they take a 401k instead?

They are part time employees who work from August to January with a starting salary somewhere around $75k, and they won't work without a pension?? Must be nice.

You took that article, gleaned information from it that wasn't there, and then in your most condescending voice (I really hope you aren't like that in person) imply that I'm an idiot? And again, you're arguing the straw man fallacy here. I don't think they should be entitled to a pension, but when it comes down to it, the league is a billion dollar organization and I think the inconsequential amount of money you're talking about was not worth the negative press or potential for serious lawsuits had a player been injured. But congrats, you are now an internet tough guy, must be a big moment in your life!

 

[BlueMAB]

You took that article, gleaned information from it that wasn't there, and then in your most condescending voice (I really hope you aren't like that in person) imply that I'm an idiot? And again, you're arguing the straw man fallacy here. I don't think they should be entitled to a pension, but when it comes down to it, the league is a billion dollar organization and I think the inconsequential amount of money you're talking about was not worth the negative press or potential for serious lawsuits had a player been injured. But congrats, you are now an internet tough guy, must be a big moment in your life!

I didn't glean anything from it that wasn't there, I provided the facts as reported in the article. They just didn't coincide with your statement that this issue was as simple as a rounding error or about $100k per team.

If there was a straw man argument, it was made when you implied this could all be settled if the owners just decided to kick in an extra $100k per team.

If I was trying to be a tough guy, I would have threatened you. I'm as big a smartass in person as I am on the internet. I still manage to sleep at night.

I apolgize if you I made you feel stupid. When I see someone respond to something I didn't say, while trying to make a point that I think is stupid, I tend to respond to them in kind.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8429885/report-nfl-officials-reach-agreement-end-lockout

Looks like the NFL got most of what they wanted. They have to keep the pensions for current refs, but pensions will be phased out as all new hires will receive 401k contributions.

Just like 90% of the rest of the country. Except most people don't make an average of $150,000 for 6 months of work.

http://deadspin.com/5947376/how-the-referee-deal-got-done

I feel you'd be interested in this.